I agree strongly with P-Dog’s original post. One thing I find very telling: A natural athlete in reasonable condition cannot make strength gains during a period of calorie restricition on a high volume program. Strength gains can still be made however, when you cut back, work in the 3 to 5 rep range, and keep the total number of sets down.
My experience tells me that the focus of strength training should always be strength. If you’re not getting stronger week to week (not necessarily limit strength, but some display range,) you’re spinning your wheels in the gym. Lifting weights is not efficient fat burning exercise anyway, intervals/dragging etc…can help you here, but as said before, fat loss is mostly a function of diet.
In summation, I think it’s important to use iron as it was intended: for strength.
CT is just one person’s results. Like I said before, a lot of these bodybuilding exercises were new to him and it provided a new stimulus. He also didn’t get most of his results from fat fast. He seemed to have more results with the don’t diet and Swole’s help. I just think a high volume program should be saved while bulking. Why overtrain yourself when you are probably not going to gain muscle. You can’t go high volume all the time. There has to be periods where you do lower volume also.
CT did 2-3 energy system workouts per week. He went from 230lbs 18% to 204lbs 5%. Now you tell me that weight training did not have a major impact on his fat loss. Sure he kept changing his diet to get better results but he didn’t lose LBM but he stated that he could have gained more muscle mass if he consumed more carbs early on at the same time getting ripped. It was a combination of a dialed in diet and weight training that helped him lean out. There is no way he could have gotten the results he did with just two sessions of HIIT per week and a dialed in diet. It was the weight training and diet that he did that benefited him the most. We wont know what ultra low reps 1-3 would have done to him but what we do see is what a 10 rep super set workout can do and thats fat loss and muscle growth.
“When CT did his Beast Evolves transformation he was using OVT, 5 heavy reps and 5 TUT reps supersets starting at 3 sets. Thats not low volume. So right there it shows you that lower volume may not be more beneficial to fat loss than medium (5-8) rep ranges.”
come on dude, you are making a bad comparison. CT is an exception, a big exception. he had done very little upperbody training let alone bodybuilding type work so the result of doing a hypertrophy routine in a deficit was just that - hypertrophy. he experienced ‘newbie gains’ he has said himself that strength training is much better during a diet phase.
i think that most of you are missing p-dogs point.
YES, you will lose fat weight training in a calorie deficit. it doesn’t matter what rep range you are using, 1 rep, 3 reps, 5 reps, 15, meltdown, ovt, abbh, etc. if there is a deficit and diet is in order fat loss will be had.
i think the point is directed towards programs such as meltdown - programs that forego any type of strength training to do circuit training. in MY experience, deficit calories + circuit training = lbm loss heaven
i think the overall point is that while fat loss will occur when weight training in a caloric deficit, that shouldn’t be your goal when you enter the gym. it should be the preserve as much lbm as possible.
Like I said above I’m not doing much cardio 1-2 per week and I’m lifting using a 4x6 method. I’m losing fat and gaining LBM. I was 149lbs in November/December I’m now 160 and my body fat % has gone down. Obvioulsy cardio has not made that happen since I’m not getting in much of it. For me its weight training AND getting my diet in better shape. So for ME I lost fat lifting weights.
I pretty much agree with john 222, at least insofar as you do allow for some exceptions. I also suspect lifting weights for strength will be a better choice for most people. I do want to say, however, that high volume bodybuilding programs, like the type Arnold recommended (although i would think his were a little excessive) when combined with some strength training, can yeild incredible results for some trainies who have gradually developed the work capacity to handle such things. If one looks at the workouts of combat sport participants, one finds them doing thousands of calasthenics per day, and lifting heavy weights (ken shamrock squatted 700 and benched 500). Now i would not recommend such training to almost anyone, and i personally could not handle it at this time, but I do think there is a sort of excessive fear of overtraining that leads to the idea of sticking to low volume during weight loss. Especially given the fact that most people can not push themselves that hard that often, if an average, slightly chubby male told me he wanted to get ripped, I would have him do as many dips, pullups, and squats (with and without weight) per day as he was willing six days a week. No one I know has ever stuck to such a program for more than a few weeks, but they get impressive results during those weeks, and they are ready for more work when they switch to something else.
a lot of people are missing the point here. no one is saying that weight training doesnt contribute to fat loss. what i am saying is that your time spent in the gym while dieting, should be to maintain lbm and strength and hopefully increase both. of course you will lose fat on a high volume program, you may also lose muscle and strength, and run the risk of overtraining.
to get ripped you need to focus on your diet period! as well as increased energy expenditure in the form of cardio.
if you use your weight training for fat loss. what then do you use for strength and hypertrophy?
P-DOG I’ve made strength gains, lost body fat, increased LBM and added a few yards to my golf swing Like I said the only forms of cardio I get is from Bball once or twice a week. I can’t stand cardio and don’t likfe to do it unless I have a basketball in my hand. I’m gonna oick up a Nike HRM and do HIIT on the bball court doing suicides. I’m gonna give that a shot. But as far as cardio that all I do.
DOG whats the difference between cardio work and supersetting with short rest periods between sets?You’ll be buring more calories than you would during HIIT because its a longer duration, you’ll be inducing hypertrophy using middle range reps (4-8) and you’ll be making strength gains using middle range reps (4-8).
And YES a person’s diet is THE most important ingredient for fat loss, I say that as I’m eating my low carb entemmens low carb chewy cookies! They actually taste pretty damn good.
How long have you been lifting weights? If you’re just starting out(a year or less) then yes many people lose fat and again strength at the same time.
You’re still missing the point.Why do countless sets to lose fat when there is no meed to. You could still be getting the same effects from a program with less overall volume(total sets for the workout). The effects of overtraining can last a long time so why put yourself at risk when dieting when you are not going to gain any rea; amount of muscle. The last statement goes for someone who has been training for a while.
Take a look at the article Ripped,Rugged,Dense on this site for some answers on this.
EDT - Lose The Fat, Keep The Strength -
It’s a good routine, targeted at fat loss and what I would consider high volume.
I agree with PDOG - mostly. Dieting is the KEY aspect to FAT LOSS.
When dieting for fat loss you must carefully balance diet with resistance training (of any sort), or else you will start going backwards i.e. strength loss / muscle loss. Which is MORE likely on a high volume routine. However -
I think an important aspect overlooked here is the SIGNIFICANE of post workout nutrition when on a hypo-caloric diet. Halt the catabolism as fast as you can with some high GI/II carbs. Integrating this into your diet plan is ESENTIAL when your goal is fat loss and you are doing a high volume routine.
Like I said the only forms of cardio I get is from Bball once or twice a week. I can’t stand cardio and don’t likfe to do it unless I have a basketball in my hand. I’m gonna oick up a Nike HRM and do HIIT on the bball court doing suicides. I’m gonna give that a shot. But as far as cardio that all I do.