I have been on TRT for almost a year and decided to “Blast” for 16 weeks. I just started my 7th week on a test only cycle. The first 4 weeks were dosed at 400mg per week and then ramped it up to 500mg per week 2 weeks ago. Here are some labs from last Monday.
500mg Pfizer T Cyp per week (250mg on Monday and Thursday)
300iu Novarel HCG 2x per week
.5 Anastrozole E3D
No supplements other than ON Whey Protein
Total Test - 1996 ng/dl [280-1070 ng/dl]
Free Test - 580 pg/ml [47-244 pg/ml]
SHBG - 33 nmol/L [13-71 nmol/L]
Estradiol - 46 pg/ml [0-39.8 pg/ml]
TSH - 1.21 mlu/L [0.3-5.0]
Are these serum levels consistent with 500mg T Cyp per week? Again, I was on 400mg per week for 4 weeks and then increased to 500mg 2 weeks ago. I would have been at 500mg for 1 week at the time these labs were drawn. I was honestly expecting my Total T to be around 3000 ng/dl. It looks like the Free T is fairly high. E2 could be a bit lower I suppose.
I have been eating pretty clean at 3000 to 3500 calories per day. I’m taking in 300 to 350 grams of protein a day. Carbs are 200 to 250 grams per day. I try to maintain 45% Protein, 35% Carbs, and 20% Fat. It’s not easy. I have only gained about 4 lbs. I’m defintely getting stronger and my workouts are more intense. My lifts have gone up significantly. I do struggle with one shoulder due to a torn labrum.
I’m right around 12% bodyfat. I’m 6’1" and currently 192 lbs. I started at 188 lbs. My goal is to be leaner and stronger at 200 lbs. No more than 205 lbs, ideally. Am I on track here? Is the 7th and 8th week where the shit really starts to hit for gains? At this rate, what can I expect at the end of this 16 weeks?
Many thanks,
BlownLS7
Looks like you should change the arimidex to every other day.
Its pfizer test, so I assume its saved up TRT test that was extra and you know it is accurate right?
Most people I know on around 100mg a week end up with 800-1000…
When was your last shot before the test?
I was thinking that every other day on the Arimidex is probably necessary. Just wasn’t sure if .5mg at that frequency wouldnt be too much.
Yep - way more 200mg/ml Depo Test than I need, straight from the pharm. I would have a tough time believing it is under dosed, but hell I guess anythimg is possible. I know that 70mg every 3 days had me anywhere from 1040 to 1160 ng/dl total test. One 160mg injection per week was 1250. Based on those numbers, I thought for sure I’d at least be 2500 ng/dl dosing 400-500mg per week. It could be that I am at that level by now. If anyone has run 400 to 500mg a week and has lab results from the cycle, it would be cool as shit if you’d post it up for comparison.
The last shot before the test was actually about an hour and a half before blood was drawn. It was 250mg in my left deltoid. 4days before was also 250mg, but injected in my left quad. All injections before that we’re at 200mg twice a week. I rotate injection sites between glutes, quads, and delts.
Is my E2 so high that it’s keeping my numbers down?
If you just took it most of it wouldn’t be active yet, and I don’t think it would show up. I know peak levels are around 24 hours after the injection, so I would assume that it was just at the end of 4 days and at it’s lowest.
That is the only thing I can think of.
The E2 may be causing an issue too if a lot is aromatizing.
Are you using the same injection sites as you did with TRT?
I am using the same sites. Pins are 23g 1.5" for glutes. I use 25g 1" for quads and delts.
Ive searched for comparable data and couldnt find very much. From the little bit I could find, the numbers seem similar to mine. Anyone else have feedback? I have acne on my shoulders, back, and some on my chest. Im not bloated and not really gaining weight/size, despite all the food intake and lifting. My arms and chest are slowly growing and I think my legs are too. Is the elevated E2 holding me back that much? I’m eating 6 or 7 times a day. Training looks something like this:
Sunday - Off
Monday - Off
Tuesday - Chest & moderate cardio 1 - 1.5 hours
Wednesday - Upper Back 1 hour
Thurs - Core - Abs and lower back - 1 hour
Friday - Arms & moderate cardio - 1.25 hours
Saturday - Shoulders and Legs - 2 hours
Cant help but think that my current dose of test is too low for my goals. Maybe jump it up to 600mg per week for the remaining 9 weeks? Do I need more test while blasting since I’ve been on TRT for so long? Or is this cycle just now really kicking in?
Any other opinions? Thanks
All i know is that when my TRT dose got bumped to 200mg per week my labs were very close to yours. My dose then was lowered as there is no need for my TRT dose to be out of the reference range only on the high end where symptoms are gone. Agreed with bigskwatta that this is probably your valley and you levels closer to after your shots will be much higher. Also what to expect after 16 weeks will largely depend on your diet and training if training is not intense enough to elicit some response from your body you will not see large gains. Also if you are not consuming enough calories for optimal growth then you will also not see large gains.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I suspect there is confusion (I know it exists in my own head, on this subject), regarding what is injected, Vs what is detected Vs how long after the injection, testing is done.
What I mean is this:
You inject 2ml/200mg (for example) of testosterone cypionate. Within a few hours (max 24 or so) the test cyp will be in the blood.
But this is still testosterone cypionate not bioavailable testosterone. So it this what the test picks up? I really don’t know.
Remember, that the test cyp only becomes bioactive once it is esterless. Ester cleavage is determined by how much time is spent in the lipid phase Vs the aqueous phase. The cleavage enzyme only works in the aqueous phase so the longer the ester (and hence the more lipophilic/hydrophobic) the less time it spends in aqueous phase, so less ‘chance’ of ester cleavage.
So you do have max levels of the injected compound within 24 hours, but it is not bioactive.
Is the blood test ‘reading’ the bioactive test (true ‘testosterone’) or is it ‘reading’ the testosterone cypionate?
This is where I’m stumped.
BBB[/quote]
It was my understanding that the cypionate ester itself does not make it into the blood stream. Does the depot (muscle or fat) not clear away the ester before sending the test itself into the blood stream? So whatever is in the bloodstream is the real deal.
I may be unclear on the process as well.
Interesting thread and ideas.
Im on TRT and until I lost my insurance was on 200mg Sandoz Test Cyp EW. My blood work results pulled 4 days after a 200mg injection of Sandoz came back as Total Test range (240-950 ng/dl) 965 Free test range (9-30ng/dl) 32. So I was happy with these numbers but shortly after lost my insurance and began running 250mg homebrew Test Cyp EW. I recently got setup with a program that allows me free medical care and was scheduled for more bloodwork.
Four days before this recent bloodwork I injected 500mg of homebrew Test Cyp to see where the numbers landed. Total Test 240-950) 3030 Free Test (9-30) 167. Now Im sure Ill be getting a talking to from my doc at my next visit but it put a huge smile on my face to see that 2.5 times the dose of homebrew had my freee test more than 5 times higher than the pharm grade.
I should add that I run .5mg anastrozole EOD and 250iu HCG EOD but I had not used any HCG the week of this recent blooddraw wanting the numbers to represent only my homebrew.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
If that were the case, then shortly after starting your cycle, you would see and feel the effects.
Also, since androgens are very quickly metabolised away, the levels would drop rapidly, irrespective of ester. Prop would act and clear just as quickly as cyp, decanoate, etc.
Finally, what would govern half life, if every esterified gear simply entered the bloodstream, unesterified within 24 hours?
BBB[/quote]
If the ester is not cleared away until it leaves the depot, then all these questions are answered. The drug and its ester are stored in depot awaiting <> to clear away the ester and send the hormone into the blood stream. This happens slowly.
This is why I don’t think you feel the effects of longer esters until a few weeks in. It’s also why we recommend to wait 6 weeks on TRT until getting your blood tested to allow blood levels to steady up.
I could be wrong.
Fertil Steril. 1987 Jun;47(6):1004-9.
Hormone kinetics after intramuscular testosterone cypionate.
Nankin HR.
Abstract
There have not been reports analyzing in detail the reproductive hormone changes in hypogonadal men after usual therapeutic injections of testosterone cypionate (TC). In 11 hypogonadal men 200 mg intramuscular TC caused a threefold rise in serum T (peak values, days 2 to 5), a 33% increase in % free T (%FT) (days 2 to 7), and a 4.5-fold rise of absolute FT (peak on days 2 to 3), a 66% increase in % nonsex hormone-binding globulin-bound T (%non-SHBG-T) (peak days 2 to 7), a sixfold increase in absolute non-SHBG-T (peak days 4 to 5), and a threefold rise of estradiol (days 2 to 7). Many of the men achieved androgen concentrations (T, FT, and non-SHBG-T) above the respective normal concentrations between days 2 and 7; then steroid values declined to basal levels by days 13 to 14. Non-SHBG-T showed the largest-fold absolute increase and on day 4 to day 5 averaged three times the mean in normal men. Five men achieved non-SHBG-T values several times the upper limit of our total normal range. Luteinizing hormone became suppressed in men receiving their first intramuscular TC injection and remained suppressed in men receiving chronic TC. Thus, in hypogonadal men, biweekly injections of 200 mg TC result in wide variations in circulating androgen levels, from high to elevated shortly after intramuscular TC declining to basal by days 13 to 14.