[quote]elpatchoulero wrote:
hedo wrote:
Our Marines would be considered Commandoes in most armies.
WTF?!
I hope your are comparing US Marines with Commandoes in most Third World armies and not with Commandoes in “Western” world…
Because if you really think that “standard” US Marines would be considered as skilled as, let’s say, English, French, Belgian, Australian, Italian, or Russian Commandoes…
I would be really interested in any facts, stats, analysis that wouls suggest so, because as far as I’m concerned (having serverd over 7 years in the French 2nd REP -Airborne Regiment of the French Foreign Legion-, and done “multinational” missions, some involving US troups), that’s just plain BS.
Don’t think I’m talking shit about the US because I’m a French bitter MF, US elite troups as Seals or Rangers are as good as any other elite units in the world but “Our Marines would be considered Commandoes in most armies”… Pfff…[/quote]
Well actually it would be an unfair comparison against third world nations. I don’t think your talking shit at all. Soldiers fight and argue all the time about who is best.
The US does not consider it’s airborne troops to be special forces. However, airborne training is a prerequisite to being a member of a SF unit. Army, Navy and Air force special forces, in my opinion are light years ahead of the rest of the world. The British SAS and SBS are also in that level. Everyone else is second or below. Training and experience are the advantage as well as time in combat. Both nations have seen a lot of it.
As to the Marines, they are an self contained fighting force. Integrated armor, air and artillery and the ability to land on any coast in the world. How many nations commandoes can do that? Marine recon units are used as special forces in our military. The marines are not a company sized force either. They operate in batallion sized units and we have a lot of them.
As to reputation. I’ll stack the Marines combat record against any nations special operators, Great Britan excepted.
I actually think the French have a reliable and stable military. Poorly led by politicians but a good military nonetheless. The legion is particularly storied and well known for bravery. However, the marines have a history of victory that cannot be overlooked. Peacekeeping is not combat however. It can be but it is not for comparison purposes.
I’ll submit the following as some evidence and will provide more if need be.
International Think Tank Ranks the World’s Strongest Militaries
9/27/2005
http://www.globalfirepower.com/ranking.asp
Well a very reputed International Think Tank released its annual rankings of the world’s Strongest Militaries.
1 - United States of America
It’s manufacturing capabilities coupled with sheer numbers, advanced technology and nuclear capabilities keep the US on top. 48/60
2 - Russia
Though dwindled since the Cold War, Russia’s numbers and nuclear capabilities keep it on top as the second most powerful army in the world. 37/60
3 - Israel
Manpower, sheer numbers and experience rank the Israeli armies among the top in the world. 35/60
4 - Germany
Surprising to find Germany this high on the list but it maintains a stellar peacekeeping force for itself - plus it does not maintain any costly overseas stations. 33/60
5 - China
Overall numbers and the possibility of nuclear capability rank China high on the list, but the fact remains that most of the force is untested in global conflicts, their equipment remains dated and forced conscription takes its toll. 32/60
6 - France and Pakistan Tie
France maintains units for self-defence and peacekeeping missions of its former colonies. Other than that, its primary force is more for its own protection than anything else, having been invaded by Germany twice in the 20th century. Nonetheless, its nuclear capabilities, strong commitment to maritime and defense, and a steady military keep it in the top ten. 31/60
Pakistan’s recent experience as a US ally and its build up against India help it score well. It combats internal terrorism regularly but none-the-less maintains support through the US. 31/60
7 - South Korea
Build up over recent years and following up on their own military technology avenues, South Korea is a major player in todays military world. It’s support from the US doesn’t hurt its ranking either and the provided equipment and training gives it an edge over its northern aggressor. 30/60
8 - Iran
Iran’s manpower and supposed nuclear capability rank it in the top ten, but its dated equipment and lack of recent experience bring it out of the top 5. 29/60
9 - India
The build up against Pakistan continues but the Indian armies use dated equipment and lack any recent major military engagements. Nuclear probablity helps its rank. 29/60
10 - UK (Britain)
Once a strong proud world power, the UK maintains a simple fighting force keeping the US as a major ally. It has allocated units in a few global hotspots. 27/60
11 - North Korea
Kim’s military build up has been impressive and rumors of a nuclear program help its ranking but none-the-less outdated equipment, non-experienced troops and forced military service hinder its ranking. 27/60
12 - Italy
Italy maintains a strong fighting force and delves more into peacekeeping initiatives than anything else. It remains an average military power at best. 23/60
13 - Greece
Greece’s spot as a military power is impressive to some degree. Its build up is more for self-defence and protection (presumably against Turkey) than an offensive-minded force. 23/60
14 - Saudi Arabia
Saudi Arabia is busy combating internal terrorism as a US ally than needing to do much else with its forces. The territory is vast but made of mostly uninhabitable desert, leaving the pipelines and major cities as the only needs of protection. A few border disputes keep other forces away from potential interior hotspots. Equipment remains mostly US in origin, training is avergae and recent experience is mostly relegated to special forces and police units. 23/60
15 - Spain
Other than defending against internal Muslim fanatics, Spain maintains a strictly defensive and peacekeeping force. It removed its forces from Iraq after recent elections and has not seen any since. 22/60
16 - Australia
A capable fighting force with good training, the Australian ranking is low due to numbers and lack of nuclear capability. It assists in peacekeeping missions across the globe and keeps an interest in the Indonesia area. 21/60
17 - Syria
The Syrian army is typical of other Middle Eastern forces - outdated equipment and limited recent military experiences. 21/60
18 - Egypt
See Syria above, though some modernization is occurring. 20/60
19 - Turkey
It’s formidable numbers help its ranking but internal unrest, some outdated equipment and lack of a nuclear arsenal bring its ranking down. 20/60
20 - Japan
A shadow of its former dominant World War 2 self, Japan maintains a simple Self-Defense force. It currently sees more peacekeeping missions than anything else. 20/60
21 - Taiwan
The buildup to prevent the invetable Chinese invasion continues. Taiwan would naturally rely on help from the US and the international community in the event of an invasion as it maintains a small defenseive force populated by US equipment and support. 19/60
22 - Canada
Canadian fire power is minimal at best and is striclty used for self-defense with the occasional peacekeeping mission. 17/60
23 - Indonesia
Recent Muslim insurgency have left this area of the world a hotspot to watch. The Indonesian army is capable but could be stretched too thin. 16/60
24 - Brazil
No major war in nearly 100 years yet Brazil maintains a large army. The country itself has a large area to cover in military defense. Some border disputes and drug-running are the major action that it could see.
