[quote]lixy wrote:
[/quote]
Seconded.[/quote]
Holy shit! You’ve even managed to piss off Lixy!
[quote]3hitter wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]3hitter wrote:
[quote]erik-the-red wrote:
So you kill the fanatic. Is that the end of our problems? How do we stop others from rising up and taking this fanatic’s position?[/quote]
No, you kill the next fanatic too. You go whereever you have to , across any border to do so. Fanatics are born from ignorance.
[/quote]
So you are for the fanatic puirsuit of fanatics?
Good for you.
[/quote]
That’s cool how you felt no need to respond the the second part of that statement.
Why? Did it fall into your ideal of how to solve the problem?
[/quote]
No, but to point out where your fanaticism comes from and that you seem to be blind to it whereas you see it in others…
I was hoping you would read between the lines.
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
I’m sorry, but even if a leader (general, president, etc.) makes an error that’s no reason to denigrate people who fought believing they were doing the right thing.
[/quote]
You mean “believing to be doing the right thing” somehow makes it ok to harm yourself or others or makes the problems caused by it any less real?
I am sorry, but that is not the way the world works, ignorance is not always bliss.
Maybe, “doing the smart thing” is just as, if not more, important as “doing the right thing”.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
The US has fought a number of unjust and unsuccessful wars…[/quote]
Name them.[/quote]
1812, War of Northern Agression, Phillipines, WWI, Vietnam, …
[quote]Valor wrote:
Look, mankind is innately evil (explore the doctrine of original sin).
…
Push you’re dead on. The ONLY way to have peace is to be so strong that no one wants to mess with you. [/quote]
Oh I agree.
If you get cocky however and kick other peoples doors in for fun they HAVE to mess with you, whether they wanted to or not.
They might not be able to take you down but they will shit in your skillet if they can and that is all the radical Muslims are really doing.
[quote]NvrTooLate wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]John S. wrote:
orion wrote:
John S. wrote:
With the pull out date set, all Al Qaeda has to do is lay low and they will win.
All the soldiers that have died did so for nothing.
How could you have possibly “won” Afghanistan?
Gone in there with a full force and wipe out Al Qaeda. Get as much as humanly possible then leave.
Its never going to be a “Real” country, it is tribe based. But take out a lot of the tribes and you won’t have to be worrying about anything for quite a while.[/quote]
That is interesting because every time the US bombs some country to wipe out “terrorists” they seem to spring up like mushrooms after a rainy day.
Maybe you produce more than you kill with this strategy?
[/quote]
Elaborate[/quote]
Every time a US bomb kills a wedding party a whole clan, if not tribe, turns against the US?
I would, if my mother, sister, brother, sister or all of the above were killed on a wedding day.
If I also were an ignorant fuck who got his first AK at 13 with a long and proud tradition of blood feuds it would definitely be on.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
…Oh and btw, you weren’t around for any of the political and historical issues your speaking on so asserting that as some sort of plus for your argument is laughable. Joe.[/quote]
Tyke, I was around for all of them that occurred after 1960. That includes the Vietnam War. I have fingernail clippings in the bottom of my bathroom trash can that are older than you.
[/quote]
Dude, you have a serious hygiene problem.
Cereally.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]NvrTooLate wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]John S. wrote:
orion wrote:
John S. wrote:
With the pull out date set, all Al Qaeda has to do is lay low and they will win.
All the soldiers that have died did so for nothing.
How could you have possibly “won” Afghanistan?
Gone in there with a full force and wipe out Al Qaeda. Get as much as humanly possible then leave.
Its never going to be a “Real” country, it is tribe based. But take out a lot of the tribes and you won’t have to be worrying about anything for quite a while.[/quote]
That is interesting because every time the US bombs some country to wipe out “terrorists” they seem to spring up like mushrooms after a rainy day.
Maybe you produce more than you kill with this strategy?
[/quote]
Elaborate[/quote]
Every time a US bomb kills a wedding party a whole clan, if not tribe, turns against the US?
I would, if my mother, sister, brother, sister or all of the above were killed on a wedding day.
If I also were an ignorant fuck who got his first AK at 13 with a long and proud tradition of blood feuds it would definitely be on.
[/quote]
To be perfectly honest here if I woke up a young man in Afghanistan around 2002 I would have been one of the first in a militia to kill as many invaders as I could. This is without even believing in the 77 virgin bullshit. If America was invaded because of some extremist representing .1% of the population came to power, I would give my life in the same way for America. We invaded, destroyed, and are attempting to rebuild a country to take out a group of extremist? I don’t get it and that’s why I’m still asking somebody to tell me why we are in Afghanistan, what are goals are, and who specifically our enemy is.
Edit: I was really thinking aloud most of that post but I am still looking for answers to those questions.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
…I don’t get it and that’s why I’m still asking somebody to tell me why we are in Afghanistan, what are goals are, and who specifically our enemy is…
[/quote]Honestly and completely non-sarcastically, if you don’t already know the answers to these questions you really don’t belong on this forum.
- “why we are in Afghanistan” - Afghanistan is the central Asian country that from the mid 90s until 2002 was under the oppressive boot heel of and politically controlled for the most part by the Taliban - extremist Muslims who gained control after the Soviets withdrew in the late 80s.
These magnificent examples of humanity allowed safe harbor, that is, training camps, infrastructure, safety, etc. to a certain band of rather well financed and very smart terrorists led by a Saudi named Osama bin Laden. Senor Laden and his comrades attempted to operate from several Middle Eastern and African nations in order to perpetuate their jihad against western civilization. They had a somewhat difficult time establishing a safe base of operations because Muslim countries, even sympathetic Muslim countries didn’t want to attract the attention that “bin Laden - Wanted Dead or Alive” was prone to do.
So when the Taliban laid out the welcome mat and said bin Laden’s boys could set up shop in complete safety Monsieur bin Laden and his team of angels from the pits of hell hustled their skinny little, rectally prolapsed asses right on in.
Then just a few short years ago when you were still in elementary school and after several major terrorists attacks in various parts of the world Herr bin Laden’s organization successfully hijacked four American airliners and flew two of them into some shacks in Manhattan, one into a five-sided building in Virginia, and one into a field in Pennsylvania. It is considered a safe assumption that the latter aeroplane was intended for the domicile of the head of the executive branch of the US government.
This foray caused the deaths of thousands of Americans and included foreigners as well.
Major intelligence agencies from various countries around the world including of course the United States of America accurately determined the perpetrators of this act of war. They were from Afghanistan. The United States and some of its allies decided that this would not stand. Military operations commenced and are continuing.
That is why we are in Afghanistan.
- “what are goals are” - the goals are to disrupt Mr. bin Laden’s operations so that he finds it difficult to do such a dastardly deed again. Other goals are to kill him and as many of his greasy little goat fucking friends as possible both for revenge and so…ahem…they cannot do such a dastardly deed again.
That is what the goals are.
- “who specifically our enemy is” - Comrade bin Laden’s group of merry men, i.e., Al Qaeda and anyone who give him aid and comfort - this leads us right back to item # 1 - the Taliban.
That is specifically who our enemy is.
Why did you not know this? I’m serious. How could anyone who doesn’t ride on short buses not know this?[/quote]
Thank you for an answer. I will tell you all the reasons I disagree at a later time when i really feel more enthused to type.
Oh but before i retort stop using the fucking word “know” you don’t fucking “know” a thing. And your condescending nature paired with your illusions of "know"ing things makes you a very hard person to take seriously. To think somebody actually thinks they “know” indefinitely the reasons anybody besides themselves does anything is beyond me. The arrogance. The world isn’t you, you don’t “know” a goddamn thing, Joe.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Deorum wrote:
…I don’t get it and that’s why I’m still asking somebody to tell me why we are in Afghanistan, what are goals are, and who specifically our enemy is…
[/quote]Honestly and completely non-sarcastically, if you don’t already know the answers to these questions you really don’t belong on this forum.
- “why we are in Afghanistan” - Afghanistan is the central Asian country that from the mid 90s until 2002 was under the oppressive boot heel of and politically controlled for the most part by the Taliban - extremist Muslims who gained control after the Soviets withdrew in the late 80s.
These magnificent examples of humanity allowed safe harbor, that is, training camps, infrastructure, safety, etc. to a certain band of rather well financed and very smart terrorists led by a Saudi named Osama bin Laden. Senor Laden and his comrades attempted to operate from several Middle Eastern and African nations in order to perpetuate their jihad against western civilization. They had a somewhat difficult time establishing a safe base of operations because Muslim countries, even sympathetic Muslim countries didn’t want to attract the attention that “bin Laden - Wanted Dead or Alive” was prone to do.
So when the Taliban laid out the welcome mat and said bin Laden’s boys could set up shop in complete safety Monsieur bin Laden and his team of angels from the pits of hell hustled their skinny little, rectally prolapsed asses right on in.
Then just a few short years ago when you were still in elementary school and after several major terrorists attacks in various parts of the world Herr bin Laden’s organization successfully hijacked four American airliners and flew two of them into some shacks in Manhattan, one into a five-sided building in Virginia, and one into a field in Pennsylvania. It is considered a safe assumption that the latter aeroplane was intended for the domicile of the head of the executive branch of the US government.
This foray caused the deaths of thousands of Americans and included foreigners as well.
Major intelligence agencies from various countries around the world including of course the United States of America accurately determined the perpetrators of this act of war. They were from Afghanistan. The United States and some of its allies decided that this would not stand. Military operations commenced and are continuing.
That is why we are in Afghanistan.
- “what are goals are” - the goals are to disrupt Mr. bin Laden’s operations so that he finds it difficult to do such a dastardly deed again. Other goals are to kill him and as many of his greasy little goat fucking friends as possible both for revenge and so…ahem…they cannot do such a dastardly deed again.
That is what the goals are.
- “who specifically our enemy is” - Comrade bin Laden’s group of merry men, i.e., Al Qaeda and anyone who give him aid and comfort - this leads us right back to item # 1 - the Taliban.
That is specifically who our enemy is.
Why did you not know this? I’m serious. How could anyone who doesn’t ride on short buses not know this?[/quote]
And again, much of the attack was planned in Germany and they prepared in Florida.
Why not bomb them?
And, even better, Germany also did not hand them over without evidence which is all the Taliban were really doing.
Also, alQuaeda operates in several different countries like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, possibly Yemen, Lebanon, etc…
So, why Afghanistan?
[quote]orion wrote:
So, why Afghanistan?[/quote]
It’s been how many years and you don’t know that this is where intelligence had identified the whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden and other Al Qaeda leadership?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
So, why Afghanistan?[/quote]
It’s been how many years and you don’t know that this is where intelligence had identified the whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden and other Al Qaeda leadership? [/quote]
But they are long gone and the POTUS said he is not that important anymore.
Why war and not a SEAL team?
But even if war, why still war when OBL insignificant and only 100 al Quaeda types left?
Doesnt add up.
It is like Vegita put it “hunting deer with a tank”.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
The US has fought a number of unjust and unsuccessful wars…[/quote]
Name them.[/quote]
1812, War of Northern Agression, Phillipines, WWI, Vietnam, …[/quote]
Please explain why the war of 1812 was unjust?
[quote]Deorum wrote:
Oh but before i retort stop using the fucking word “know” you don’t fucking “know” a thing. And your condescending nature paired with your illusions of "know"ing things makes you a very hard person to take seriously. To think somebody actually thinks they “know” indefinitely the reasons anybody besides themselves does anything is beyond me. The arrogance. The world isn’t you, you don’t “know” a goddamn thing, Joe.
[/quote]
Using the same argument, why should we believe anything you write? Wouldn’t the same logic, or lack thereof, apply?
[quote]orion wrote:
Also, alQuaeda operates in several different countries like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, possibly Yemen, Lebanon, etc…
So, why Afghanistan?[/quote]
We have been attacking them in Pakistan.
Years back, there were terrorist attacks and kidnappings in Saudi Arabia. These have, for the most part, stopped. The Saudi authorities are trying to stop the extemists from striking in their Kingdom.
There have been special ops attacks against Al-Qaeda in Yemen over the years.
A while back an Al-Qaeda linked group rose up in Lebanon and was taken out by the Lebanese army.
This is a world war, we’ve also had strikes in the Phillipines, and in Somalia.
[quote]orion wrote:
Why war and not a SEAL team?
[/quote]
The Soviets tried to end the first Afghanistan War with just Special Forces…that went real well.
[quote]John S. wrote:
With the pull out date set, all Al Qaeda has to do is lay low and they will win.
All the soldiers that have died did so for nothing. [/quote]
not really, we’ve destroyed their main source of income, the poppy fields. We’ve made crystal clear we’ll come after them if they ever hit the U.S again, and we’ve learned how to fight effectively against guerilla tactics. My speculation is also that we’ve secured a shitload of oil from Iraq, and we’ll be able to effectively go on the offensive for years to come.
Edit: its naive of me to think that they won’t get financed by another country that doesn’t own a McDonalds (The Golden Arch Theory of Conflict Revolution: No two countries with the same major corporations in both will go to war with one another) But those that are viewing America as wrong for its actions will soon be drawn into this war by their own governments.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
The US has fought a number of unjust and unsuccessful wars…[/quote]
Name them.[/quote]
1812, War of Northern Agression, Phillipines, WWI, Vietnam, …[/quote]
Please explain why the war of 1812 was unjust?[/quote]
Because you cannot simply run around “freeing” people whenever religious hysteria compells you to spread “freedom” and/or “democracy”.
That is simply inappropriate behavior.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
Why war and not a SEAL team?
[/quote]
The Soviets tried to end the first Afghanistan War with just Special Forces…that went real well.[/quote]
Well they started a war first and their objective was to occupy the country.
You wanted to get and/or kill a guy.
Why war?