[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
People over here seem especially agressive in regards to telling me how wrong everything about me is.
…[/quote]
You spelled “aggressive” wrong…
Oh crap. I think I’ve got correctorexia! Must have picked it up the last time I was in Germany. 8^)
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Would you guys characterize someone as having an “-orexia” who is making progress or even already bigger than the average population, yet still looks in the mirror and has a complex about their “lack” of size, to the point where it stokes a latent depression in them?
There has to be a pre-requisite for any classification of body dysmorphia. Where do you guys draw the line, legitimately, in your own bodybuilding sand box? What unhealthy sacrifices have to be made for a person to stand out as having ‘issues’ ?[/quote]
I like psychology, I just don’t have much faith in the institution of it.
The human mind is very complex and not given to cute little boxes just so we can have an easier time labeling people.
With that said, if someone grew up a skinny kid, it is not uncommon for them to always view themselves to some degree the way they were when they first reached maturity. They may very well acknowledge that they are not the same, and if asked clearly state that they know they have made changes, but deep down, the subconscious may still see the same kid when it comes to how the inner self is perceived.
That is not a disorder. That is life.
I had surgery not too long ago. I know I had surgery but that still doesn’t erase the odd thought that there have been no changes. That is because I literally lived my entire life dealing with an issue that was only now resolved in the last few months. That doesn’t mean I have a disorder. It means my mind (subconscious and conscious) is STILL coming to terms with the changes made.
The same applies here. If someone has made huge changes, they may not fully accept the changes made for years to come. That isn’t a disorder. That is human psychology and there isn’t even the slightest attempt to point out the difference by people who claim everyone has Bigorexia.
[quote]Ouiser wrote:
I wish people could be a little more honest about arm measurements. When I first started out I thought I had about 5 inches to go before my arms would look decent. Until I figured out most guys claiming 19" arms actually were more like 16" on a good day.[/quote]
Agreed. I am not sure why he even felt the need to lie THAT much. His arms can’t be much over 16" yet he added what must be 3" to that…as if no one would notice.
It would seem to me that we place too much importance on what ‘society’ believes, labels, or passes judgement on.
God knows the need for society to keep down anyone who strays too far ahead of the pack.
I work in psychology, so I’m kind of right smack in the middle of this issue…
Psychology in general has a hard time with extreme ends of the bell curve when it comes to behavior. Most in the field agree that it’s simply not sufficient for behavior occurring on the extreme end of the bell curve to constitute psychopathology.
That’s why a lot of “disorders” have an impairment criteria that has to be met for diagnosis. The problem with this is that it’s basically a clinical judgment thing. A misguided clinician could interpret things like spending a lot of money on food, supplements, lots of time in the gym, or other sacrifices, etc. as “impairing.”
“Bigorexia” is something that comes up occasionally with my colleagues, and I’m generally uncomfortable talking about it too much with them. Being a former wrestler, I feel the same way about things like anorexia and bulimia being diagnosed to wrestlers because they are on restrictive diets.
[quote]mrw173 wrote:
I work in psychology, so I’m kind of right smack in the middle of this issue…
Psychology in general has a hard time with extreme ends of the bell curve when it comes to behavior. Most in the field agree that it’s simply not sufficient for behavior occurring on the extreme end of the bell curve to constitute psychopathology.
That’s why a lot of “disorders” have an impairment criteria that has to be met for diagnosis. The problem with this is that it’s basically a clinical judgment thing. A misguided clinician could interpret things like spending a lot of money on food, supplements, lots of time in the gym, or other sacrifices, etc. as “impairing.”
“Bigorexia” is something that comes up occasionally with my colleagues, and I’m generally uncomfortable talking about it too much with them. Being a former wrestler, I feel the same way about things like anorexia and bulimia being diagnosed to wrestlers because they are on restrictive diets. [/quote]
There is a problem when “disorders” rely heavily on subjective influence from the doctor’s personal opinion to diagnose (which would relate to the personal goals of that doctor) rather than symptoms and objective criteria.
I spend a lot of money on food and supplements. Someone who competes at an elite level no doubt spends MUCH more than that, not to mention living everyday with more restriction and control than most of the population. I would think someone who immediately sees that as a “disorder” has problems as well.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
mrw173 wrote:
I work in psychology, so I’m kind of right smack in the middle of this issue…
Psychology in general has a hard time with extreme ends of the bell curve when it comes to behavior. Most in the field agree that it’s simply not sufficient for behavior occurring on the extreme end of the bell curve to constitute psychopathology.
That’s why a lot of “disorders” have an impairment criteria that has to be met for diagnosis. The problem with this is that it’s basically a clinical judgment thing. A misguided clinician could interpret things like spending a lot of money on food, supplements, lots of time in the gym, or other sacrifices, etc. as “impairing.”
“Bigorexia” is something that comes up occasionally with my colleagues, and I’m generally uncomfortable talking about it too much with them. Being a former wrestler, I feel the same way about things like anorexia and bulimia being diagnosed to wrestlers because they are on restrictive diets.
There is a problem when “disorders” rely on subjective influence from the doctor’s personal opinion to diagnose (which would relate to the personal goals of that doctor) rather than symptoms and objective criteria.
I spend a lot of money on food and supplements. Someone who competes at an elite level no doubt spends MUCH more than that, not to mention living everyday with more restriction and control than most of the population. I would think someone who immediately sees that as a “disorder” has problems as well.[/quote]
Yeah, I agree, but the problem is that nobody has really come up with a good, reliable way of assessing impairment objectively across disorders. So it becomes an issue of subjectivity. The other option is to abandon the impairment criteria altogether. Then the risk is diagnosing people with all kinds of things even if they aren’t impaired in any way, which I’m not comfortable with at all.
I’d hope that those who are well-trained and have common sense would look at bodybuilding and not get caught up in this crap. Being in the field, though, I gotta tell you, there are a lot of incompetent people out there.
The distinguishing thing between bigorexia and just wanting to be bigger is the overwhelmingly negative self image. If you hate yourself because you’re not big enough, then that’s bigorexia.
I’ve seen some pretty big fellas worry themselves over shrinking arms, which I suppose is related to the topic. Maybe it should be called Shrinking Arm Syndrome. “Bra, do my arms look small? They look smaller to me.”
This is generally followed up with some flexing while wearing a pleading “help me” look on their face. They tend to need assurance from time to time that their massive frames really aren’t wasting away.
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
Would you guys characterize someone as having an “-orexia” who is making progress or even already bigger than the average population, yet still looks in the mirror and has a complex about their “lack” of size, to the point where it stokes a latent depression in them?
[/quote]
It’s stupid to gauge it based on the size of the average population. If you are a bodybuilder, lifter, powerlifter, whatever, you are not the average population and your sport has a different physique criteria.
I’m far bigger than all my friends my height and most guys I see on campus about the same height as me (and most taller as well) That DOES NOT make me big. I look in the mirror and think I have a [quote]lack of size[/quote]. A damned big lack of size in fact. I don’t think I’m small, but I know I’m not big and the fact that I want to get to a point where I am considered ‘big’ by bodybuilders big enough now for me to give a shit does not make me diseased.
[quote]mrw173 wrote:
Being in the field, though, I gotta tell you, there are a lot of incompetent people out there.[/quote]
You are preaching to the choir. There are far too many patients in America who are apparently depressed.
From:
NIMH. “The Numbers Count: Mental Illness in America,” Science on Our Minds Fact Sheet Series.
and from a study published in Psychiatric Services, April 2004.
Preschoolers?
Isn’t there a problem with either our health care system or our society if PRESCHOOLERS are the fastest growing population of clinically depressed patients?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
PonceDeLeon wrote:
With that said, if someone grew up a skinny kid, it is not uncommon for them to always view themselves to some degree the way they were when they first reached maturity. They may very well acknowledge that they are not the same, and if asked clearly state that they know they have made changes, but deep down, the subconscious may still see the same kid when it comes to how the inner self is perceived.
That is not a disorder. That is life.
I had surgery not too long ago. I know I had surgery but that still doesn’t erase the odd thought that there have been no changes. That is because I literally lived my entire life dealing with an issue that was only now resolved in the last few months. That doesn’t mean I have a disorder. It means my mind (subconscious and conscious) is STILL coming to terms with the changes made.
The same applies here. If someone has made huge changes, they may not fully accept the changes made for years to come. That isn’t a disorder. That is human psychology and there isn’t even the slightest attempt to point out the difference by people who claim everyone has Bigorexia.[/quote]
Very well said. As a former walking skeleton, [quote] but deep down, the subconscious may still see the same kid when it comes to how the inner self is perceived.[/quote] this is probably truer than I’d like to admit.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I’ve seen some pretty big fellas worry themselves over shrinking arms, which I suppose is related to the topic. Maybe it should be called Shrinking Arm Syndrome. “Bra, do my arms look small? They look smaller to me.”
This is generally followed up with some flexing while wearing a pleading “help me” look on their face. They tend to need assurance from time to time that their massive frames really aren’t wasting away.[/quote]
I would hate it if someone is judging me like this.
I told another lifter last week that I would like to compete but I want to bring my legs up more. He laughed. I don’t see what was funny. He said, “you got the size right now!” to which I added, “but I know what my goals are and I’m not there yet”.
Apparently this makes me insane.
Reading all this reminds me of a quote I heard on a “Scrubs” once…
" The second you look in the mirror and feel “satisfied” is the second you lose your edge and start slipping backwards into your old pathetic habits"
Pretty sure thats not verbatim, but it gets the point across and I know I’ve found myself repeating that to myself before a set.
This whole talk of this being a disease is BS, IMO
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’ve seen some pretty big fellas worry themselves over shrinking arms, which I suppose is related to the topic. Maybe it should be called Shrinking Arm Syndrome. “Bra, do my arms look small? They look smaller to me.”
This is generally followed up with some flexing while wearing a pleading “help me” look on their face. They tend to need assurance from time to time that their massive frames really aren’t wasting away.
I would hate it someone is judging me like this.
I told another lifter last week that I would like to compete but I want to bring my legs up more. He laughed. I don’t see what was funny. He said, “you got the size right now!” to which I added, “but I know what my goals are and I’m not there yet”.
Apparently this makes me insane.[/quote]
I don’t think it’s the same thing.
[quote]pikebinscho wrote:
Reading all this reminds me of a quote I heard on a “Scrubs” once…
" The second you look in the mirror and feel “satisfied” is the second you lose your edge and start slipping backwards into your old pathetic habits"
Pretty sure thats not verbatim, but it gets the point across and I know I’ve found myself repeating that to myself before a set.
This whole talk of this being a disease is BS, IMO[/quote]
Dr. Cox: The key to my exercise program is this one simple truth: “I hate my body.”
Turk: What!?
Dr. Cox: Do you understand that the second you look in the mirror and you’re happy with what you see, baby, you just lost the battle!
Turk: You should give speeches to teenage girls!
This quote?
Edit: When I saw this thread I strated watching that episode and when I read your post that line of dialogue just finished playing lol.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’ve seen some pretty big fellas worry themselves over shrinking arms, which I suppose is related to the topic. Maybe it should be called Shrinking Arm Syndrome. “Bra, do my arms look small? They look smaller to me.”
This is generally followed up with some flexing while wearing a pleading “help me” look on their face. They tend to need assurance from time to time that their massive frames really aren’t wasting away.
I would hate it someone is judging me like this.
I told another lifter last week that I would like to compete but I want to bring my legs up more. He laughed. I don’t see what was funny. He said, “you got the size right now!” to which I added, “but I know what my goals are and I’m not there yet”.
Apparently this makes me insane.
I don’t think it’s the same thing.[/quote]
I do. You are judging someone’s mental state by one off the cuff remark.
I get comments on my size regularly. I will STILL ask those who I know are serious at the gym what I need to work on or if they see a difference from the last time they saw me (this is the case if it has been months since I last saw them). Someone like you listening to that conversation from afar could jump to all of the same conclusions…that I think I’m small because I asked about it when that is not the case. Yes, that includes asking if they have lost some size.
My goals are not average. I don’t compare myself to average people. I know I’m bigger than average but that was never the goal to start with so it may seem strange to others that I am looking for any more size at all.
YES! Exactly what I was thinking of.
PS - Dr. Cox is hysterical
[quote]Renton wrote:
I doubt there’s any single reason for this putting down of people who want to excel.
Jealousy from those without the commitment to improve themselves would be one thing, sheep following the media would be another.
Society certainly takes a dim view on many occasions of anyone who stands out too much - or at least that’s what the media says.
[/quote]
You’re totally right - it’s just jealousy they’re to lazy to do it so it makes them feel better to brand people who want to keep healthy, in shape etc as “bigorexic” it’s stupid, can’t compare us to anorexic people they’re wasting away on the other hand lifters are working to improve their health and fitness.
I understand there are people around with muscle dysmorphia but those cases seem rare to me I’ve never met anyone with that.
I’ve seen some really stupid things around recently I can’t remember what the so called disorder is named now but basically you have a mental disorder if you have an opinion that differs in anyway from what the media say…
Hello? Are they trying to control us or what?
We’re different and they don’t like that. I’m not happy with being mediocre, I don’t like being fat I want to get bigger and stronger so I spend my time reading T-Nation instead of watching TV, I spend my money on the right foods that aren’t going to make me sick and need to buy medicines.
The media know a lot of people like me and you do things differently, we don’t care what other people think but they would love to get parents all riled up so that when their child starts taking an interest in training with weights they take them to the doctor give him a special pill and hey we have another mindless zombie.
This looks rather sinister in my opinion and it’s not going to do bodybuilding any favors what so ever.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’ve seen some pretty big fellas worry themselves over shrinking arms, which I suppose is related to the topic. Maybe it should be called Shrinking Arm Syndrome. “Bra, do my arms look small? They look smaller to me.”
This is generally followed up with some flexing while wearing a pleading “help me” look on their face. They tend to need assurance from time to time that their massive frames really aren’t wasting away.
I would hate it someone is judging me like this.
I told another lifter last week that I would like to compete but I want to bring my legs up more. He laughed. I don’t see what was funny. He said, “you got the size right now!” to which I added, “but I know what my goals are and I’m not there yet”.
Apparently this makes me insane.
I don’t think it’s the same thing.
I do. You are judging someone’s mental state by one off the cuff remark.
[/quote]
No, more like remarkS, facial expressions and tone of voice (literally looking and sounding alarmed/depressed).