Was the Moon Landing a Hoax?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
orion wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
orion wrote:
Researchers and space enthusiasts see helium-3 as the perfect fuel source.

Researchers and space enthusiasts seehelium 3 as the perfect fuel source: extremely potent, nonpolluting, withvirtually no radioactive by-product. Proponents claim its the fuel ofthe 21st century. The trouble is, hardly any of it is found on Earth.But there is plenty of it on the moon.

Society is straining to keep pace withenergy demands, expected to increase eightfold by 2050 as the world populationswells toward 12 billion. The moonjust may be the answer.

“Helium 3 fusion energy may be thekey to future space exploration and settlement,” said Gerald Kulcinski,Director of the Fusion Technology Institute (FTI) at the University ofWisconsin at Madison.

I read about this a while back. I don’t remember the details at the moment, but there was something about the transport, storage or processing of if that was a major hurdle.

Are you now a proponent of moon exploration all of a sudden?

You don�??�?�´t get it, do you.

If we had a fusion reactor right now able to use �??�?�³He it would make economic sense right now to fly to the moon and get the stuff.

We would need no stinkin gubamint!

And I bet that my privately built spaceships will kick your government Trabant rust buckets ass.

To the moon and back.

What makes you think I would necessarily disagree with this? That said, NO industry, nevermind company could have funded an infant space program, especially with no indication that a marketable product existed beforehand. [/quote]

Yup, but the conclusion you draw from this is that it needed to be done by government.

The conclusion that I draw from this is that there really was no reason to go to the moon in the first place except for showing off. That equals billions of dollars that could have been spent better elsewhere, preferably by those who earned them in the first place.

82

[quote]orion wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
orion wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
orion wrote:
Researchers and space enthusiasts see helium-3 as the perfect fuel source.

Researchers and space enthusiasts seehelium 3 as the perfect fuel source: extremely potent, nonpolluting, withvirtually no radioactive by-product. Proponents claim its the fuel ofthe 21st century. The trouble is, hardly any of it is found on Earth.But there is plenty of it on the moon.

Society is straining to keep pace withenergy demands, expected to increase eightfold by 2050 as the world populationswells toward 12 billion. The moonjust may be the answer.

“Helium 3 fusion energy may be thekey to future space exploration and settlement,” said Gerald Kulcinski,Director of the Fusion Technology Institute (FTI) at the University ofWisconsin at Madison.

I read about this a while back. I don’t remember the details at the moment, but there was something about the transport, storage or processing of if that was a major hurdle.

Are you now a proponent of moon exploration all of a sudden?

You don�??�??�?�´t get it, do you.

If we had a fusion reactor right now able to use �??�??�?�³He it would make economic sense right now to fly to the moon and get the stuff.

We would need no stinkin gubamint!

And I bet that my privately built spaceships will kick your government Trabant rust buckets ass.

To the moon and back.

What makes you think I would necessarily disagree with this? That said, NO industry, nevermind company could have funded an infant space program, especially with no indication that a marketable product existed beforehand.

Yup, but the conclusion you draw from this is that it needed to be done by government.

The conclusion that I draw from this is that there really was no reason to go to the moon in the first place except for showing off. That equals billions of dollars that could have been spent better elsewhere, preferably by those who earned them in the first place.

[/quote]

It gave our country something to root for when it had a gun called nuclear war heads pointed at our heads.

83

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
orion wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
orion wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
orion wrote:
Researchers and space enthusiasts see helium-3 as the perfect fuel source.

Researchers and space enthusiasts seehelium 3 as the perfect fuel source: extremely potent, nonpolluting, withvirtually no radioactive by-product. Proponents claim its the fuel ofthe 21st century. The trouble is, hardly any of it is found on Earth.But there is plenty of it on the moon.

Society is straining to keep pace withenergy demands, expected to increase eightfold by 2050 as the world populationswells toward 12 billion. The moonjust may be the answer.

“Helium 3 fusion energy may be thekey to future space exploration and settlement,” said Gerald Kulcinski,Director of the Fusion Technology Institute (FTI) at the University ofWisconsin at Madison.

I read about this a while back. I don’t remember the details at the moment, but there was something about the transport, storage or processing of if that was a major hurdle.

Are you now a proponent of moon exploration all of a sudden?

You don�??�??�??�?�´t get it, do you.

If we had a fusion reactor right now able to use �??�??�??�?�³He it would make economic sense right now to fly to the moon and get the stuff.

We would need no stinkin gubamint!

And I bet that my privately built spaceships will kick your government Trabant rust buckets ass.

To the moon and back.

What makes you think I would necessarily disagree with this? That said, NO industry, nevermind company could have funded an infant space program, especially with no indication that a marketable product existed beforehand.

Yup, but the conclusion you draw from this is that it needed to be done by government.

The conclusion that I draw from this is that there really was no reason to go to the moon in the first place except for showing off. That equals billions of dollars that could have been spent better elsewhere, preferably by those who earned them in the first place.

It gave our country something to root for when it had a gun called nuclear war heads pointed at our heads.[/quote]

There is of course the possibility that the space race never was about the moon but about building giant missiles that could deliver a load that equaled several nuclear warheads to anywhere in Russia.

But “conquering the moon” sure was a nice selling point.

84

[quote]orion wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
orion wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
orion wrote:
Researchers and space enthusiasts see helium-3 as the perfect fuel source.

Researchers and space enthusiasts seehelium 3 as the perfect fuel source: extremely potent, nonpolluting, withvirtually no radioactive by-product. Proponents claim its the fuel ofthe 21st century. The trouble is, hardly any of it is found on Earth.But there is plenty of it on the moon.

Society is straining to keep pace withenergy demands, expected to increase eightfold by 2050 as the world populationswells toward 12 billion. The moonjust may be the answer.

“Helium 3 fusion energy may be thekey to future space exploration and settlement,” said Gerald Kulcinski,Director of the Fusion Technology Institute (FTI) at the University ofWisconsin at Madison.

I read about this a while back. I don’t remember the details at the moment, but there was something about the transport, storage or processing of if that was a major hurdle.

Are you now a proponent of moon exploration all of a sudden?

You don�??�??�?�´t get it, do you.

If we had a fusion reactor right now able to use �??�??�?�³He it would make economic sense right now to fly to the moon and get the stuff.

We would need no stinkin gubamint!

And I bet that my privately built spaceships will kick your government Trabant rust buckets ass.

To the moon and back.

What makes you think I would necessarily disagree with this? That said, NO industry, nevermind company could have funded an infant space program, especially with no indication that a marketable product existed beforehand.

Yup, but the conclusion you draw from this is that it needed to be done by government.

The conclusion that I draw from this is that there really was no reason to go to the moon in the first place except for showing off. That equals billions of dollars that could have been spent better elsewhere, preferably by those who earned them in the first place.

[/quote]

I agree with this. Though many benefits were derived, the money to fund the space program was taken by force from people, some of whom didn’t want their money used for this.

Suppose Walmart could force everyone to each give a dollar to build another sweatshop in Shanghai. Yeah, we get the cheap products made by exploited ‘coolies’ but what gives Walmart the right to force people to pay that dollar?

85

"It is uncanny the way that the production of 2001: A Space Odyssey parallels the Apollo program. The film production started in 1964 and went on to the release of 2001: A Space Odyssey in1968. Meanwhile the Apollo program also began in 1964 and culminated with the first moon landings on July 20th 1969.

Also it is very interesting to note that scientist Frederick Ordway was working both for NASA and the Apollo program and was also Kubrick’s top science advisor for 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Once he negotiated the deal, Stanley, got to work. The most pressing problem for Kubrick in 1964 was to figure out a way to make the shots on the ground, on the surface of the moon, look realistic. He had to make the scenes look wide-open and expansive, like it was really done on the moon and not in a studio back lot."

http://jayweidner.com/AlchemicalKubrickIIa.html

86

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
And it was “this country” that did it, so fuck yourself with that one.

You are wrong. It was a certain few individuals who collected tax monies that had the ability to do the work. “This country” does not actually exist other than as some abstract collective idea. “This country” cannot act. The individuals in “this country” act.

That is the way it is.

Individuals that have consented to being taxed, elect their government, and pay for the projects that are run by that government.

That’s “this country.”

I know it doesn’t fit your little anarchist world model, but we’ve already determined that you preach and preach and then bitch out and pay your taxes anyway, so you may as well take some credit for having funded the space program.

I have not consented to being taxed.

I do not elect the government nor does the populous.

Everyone is powerless except for the people with coercive authority.

That is the way it is.[/quote]

Fine. Go live on a deserted island. And stop freeloading and making use of a single benefit that the government provides. If it was possible to parce exactly what you want to contribute and exactly what you’d like to receive in return, that’d be one thing. But it’s not outside of a society of 5 people. If then.

87

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
And it was “this country” that did it, so fuck yourself with that one.

You are wrong. It was a certain few individuals who collected tax monies that had the ability to do the work. “This country” does not actually exist other than as some abstract collective idea. “This country” cannot act. The individuals in “this country” act.

That is the way it is.

Individuals that have consented to being taxed, elect their government, and pay for the projects that are run by that government.

That’s “this country.”

I know it doesn’t fit your little anarchist world model, but we’ve already determined that you preach and preach and then bitch out and pay your taxes anyway, so you may as well take some credit for having funded the space program.

I have not consented to being taxed.

I do not elect the government nor does the populous.

Everyone is powerless except for the people with coercive authority.

That is the way it is.

Fine. Go live on a deserted island. And stop freeloading and making use of a single benefit that the government provides. If it was possible to parce exactly what you want to contribute and exactly what you’d like to receive in return, that’d be one thing. But it’s not outside of a society of 5 people. If then. [/quote]

True, once we’re out of a small tribe situation, that’s about right.

88

[quote]tom63 wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
And it was “this country” that did it, so fuck yourself with that one.

You are wrong. It was a certain few individuals who collected tax monies that had the ability to do the work. “This country” does not actually exist other than as some abstract collective idea. “This country” cannot act. The individuals in “this country” act.

That is the way it is.

Individuals that have consented to being taxed, elect their government, and pay for the projects that are run by that government.

That’s “this country.”

I know it doesn’t fit your little anarchist world model, but we’ve already determined that you preach and preach and then bitch out and pay your taxes anyway, so you may as well take some credit for having funded the space program.

I have not consented to being taxed.

I do not elect the government nor does the populous.

Everyone is powerless except for the people with coercive authority.

That is the way it is.

Fine. Go live on a deserted island. And stop freeloading and making use of a single benefit that the government provides. If it was possible to parce exactly what you want to contribute and exactly what you’d like to receive in return, that’d be one thing. But it’s not outside of a society of 5 people. If then.

True, once we’re out of a small tribe situation, that’s about right.[/quote]

No it is not because both of you hide a mountain of expenses for which this is evidently not true behind a mole hill of government functions for which it is.

If government only did those things that absolutely positively needed to be done by a collective you’d have no income tax, no payroll taxes and next to insignificant indirect taxes.

Your point of view is much more distorted than LMs because whereas he sees government for what it is you think one can exculpate every abuse of power with the real or imagined need for police departments. That would only justify the existence of police departments though and nothing else.

89

[quote]tom63 wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
And it was “this country” that did it, so fuck yourself with that one.

You are wrong. It was a certain few individuals who collected tax monies that had the ability to do the work. “This country” does not actually exist other than as some abstract collective idea. “This country” cannot act. The individuals in “this country” act.

That is the way it is.

Individuals that have consented to being taxed, elect their government, and pay for the projects that are run by that government.

That’s “this country.”

I know it doesn’t fit your little anarchist world model, but we’ve already determined that you preach and preach and then bitch out and pay your taxes anyway, so you may as well take some credit for having funded the space program.

I have not consented to being taxed.

I do not elect the government nor does the populous.

Everyone is powerless except for the people with coercive authority.

That is the way it is.

Fine. Go live on a deserted island. And stop freeloading and making use of a single benefit that the government provides. If it was possible to parce exactly what you want to contribute and exactly what you’d like to receive in return, that’d be one thing. But it’s not outside of a society of 5 people. If then.

True, once we’re out of a small tribe situation, that’s about right.[/quote]

What makes you think you are out of a “tribe” situation? Your family is your tribe. You may be a little more scattered about than ancient tribes were but that is because you now are more productive than small knit hunter-gatherer tribes would have been.

90

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Great news - Lifticus is building a “financial empire”.

Anyone know of a market where I can short the stock in this “financial empire”?

When it does exist you will never know about it.

You will be the only one

touche!

You’re a good sport.[/quote]

Just an example of one of my many charming qualities.

91

[quote]orion wrote:
<<< except for showing off. >>>
[/quote]

“Showing off” otherwise known as international prestige which translates into respect and intimidation is one of the major bank notes in the currency of global competition. See I don’t have the fairytale land view of the human race that many modern deluded people seem to. If you are not dominating you will be dominated. That’s the way it’s always been and that’s they way it always will be. The Apollo program was one giant “do not f**k with us” to the Soviet Union and you are kidding yourself if you think it had no effect in that regard. It’s too bad we had the horribly mismanaged Vietnam war at the same time to mitigate it’s power somewhat.

92

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The Apollo program was one giant “do not f**k with us” to the Soviet Union and you are kidding yourself if you think it had no effect in that regard. It’s too bad we had the horribly mismanaged Vietnam war at the same time to mitigate it’s power somewhat.

[/quote]

A very, very, expensive “fuck you”…but hey, at least we all got ball-point pens, Velcro, baby food, and Tang out of the deal…wow, more space welfare please!

93

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
The Apollo program was one giant “do not f**k with us” to the Soviet Union and you are kidding yourself if you think it had no effect in that regard. It’s too bad we had the horribly mismanaged Vietnam war at the same time to mitigate it’s power somewhat.

A very, very, expensive “fuck you”…but hey, at least we all got ball-point pens, Velcro, baby food, and Tang out of the deal…wow, more space welfare please![/quote]

And still a fraction of what we’ve really wasted destroying ourselves with actual social welfare programs. Space exploration is one of the few things I don’t mind paying taxes for.

94

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
And still a fraction of what we’ve really wasted destroying ourselves with actual social welfare programs. Space exploration is one of the few things I don’t mind paying taxes for.[/quote]

Buy a telescope and join a club. You would have more than enough space to keep you busy for a lifetime.

95

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
And still a fraction of what we’ve really wasted destroying ourselves with actual social welfare programs. Space exploration is one of the few things I don’t mind paying taxes for.

Buy a telescope and join a club. You would have more than enough space to keep you busy for a lifetime.[/quote]

That’s it huh?

96

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
And still a fraction of what we’ve really wasted destroying ourselves with actual social welfare programs. Space exploration is one of the few things I don’t mind paying taxes for.

Buy a telescope and join a club. You would have more than enough space to keep you busy for a lifetime.

That’s it huh?[/quote]

Well its not like you are going to ever be invited to go to space. Until we solve the problem of gravity there is no point in even thinking about it.

97

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
And still a fraction of what we’ve really wasted destroying ourselves with actual social welfare programs. Space exploration is one of the few things I don’t mind paying taxes for.

Buy a telescope and join a club. You would have more than enough space to keep you busy for a lifetime.

That’s it huh?

Well its not like you are going to ever be invited to go to space. Until we solve the problem of gravity there is no point in even thinking about it.[/quote]

You and a couple other guys here are quintessential object lessons in what happens when a reasonably intelligent guy allows his mind to be polluted with bullshit ideology.

98

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
You and a couple other guys here are quintessential object lessons in what happens when a reasonably intelligent guy allows his mind to be polluted with bullshit ideology.[/quote]

Its not like I am saying one shouldn’t do spend their own money on it. I am just saying I don’t want to pay for it and I should not be forced to pay for it. I really fail to see how that is bullshit.

On one hand you don’t mind stealing from people to support what you consider good but on the other hand you don’t like being stolen from when it comes to funding things you consider bad. Do you not see how it is YOU that is inconsistent – and therefore immoral.

At least my moral convictions are consistently against theft whereas yours can be swayed by politics. How sad for society as a whole, really.

99

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
You and a couple other guys here are quintessential object lessons in what happens when a reasonably intelligent guy allows his mind to be polluted with bullshit ideology.

Its not like I am saying one shouldn’t do spend their own money on it. I am just saying I don’t want to pay for it and I should not be forced to pay for it. I really fail to see how that is bullshit.

On one hand you don’t mind stealing from people to support what you consider good but on the other hand you don’t like being stolen from when it comes to funding things you consider bad. Do you not see how it is YOU that is inconsistent – and therefore immoral.

At least my moral convictions are consistently against theft whereas yours can be swayed by politics. How sad for society as a whole, really.[/quote]

If your “moral convictions” were so strong, you wouldn’t pop off all year about not consenting to being taxed… and then go file your tax return for April 15.

You, like all of your whining “anarchist” brethren, are full of shit.

100

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
You and a couple other guys here are quintessential object lessons in what happens when a reasonably intelligent guy allows his mind to be polluted with bullshit ideology.

Its not like I am saying one shouldn’t do spend their own money on it. I am just saying I don’t want to pay for it and I should not be forced to pay for it. I really fail to see how that is bullshit.

On one hand you don’t mind stealing from people to support what you consider good but on the other hand you don’t like being stolen from when it comes to funding things you consider bad. Do you not see how it is YOU that is inconsistent – and therefore immoral.

At least my moral convictions are consistently against theft whereas yours can be swayed by politics. How sad for society as a whole, really.

If your “moral convictions” were so strong, you wouldn’t pop off all year about not consenting to being taxed… and then go file your tax return for April 15.

You, like all of your whining “anarchist” brethren, are full of shit. [/quote]

My wife is not prepared to go to jail for my convictions, nor am I prepared to tear apart my family for my convictions. Though, I have convinced her that we can get away with lying about our taxable income…since we are both “self employed”. The government will never know how much I really make and I like it that way.

So, I protest the only way I can.

You are just angry because you do not know what to believe.