Very interesting, to say the least! I enjoyed how he talks about people who claim to believe in science rather than God. In reality those people are being simply ignorant. Dr. Voddie Baucham Jr. talks about how the Bible never asks for blind faith. People often ask for the Bible to be proven on these boards! but even history can NOT be proven with the scientific method. He is a pastor of the Grace Family Baptist Church, so you all know = ][/quote]
The title of the thread is oxymoronic. How can one ‘choose’ what to believe? Isn’t believing/disbelieving an involuntary process?
As an atheist for God, I would love to believe. I have read the bible and find a great deal of interest, guidance and wisdom within. I am willing to believe but how do I make myself believe?
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
The title of the thread is oxymoronic. How can one ‘choose’ what to believe? Isn’t believing/disbelieving an involuntary process?
As an atheist for God, I would love to believe. I have read the bible and find a great deal of interest, guidance and wisdom within. I am willing to believe but how do I make myself believe?[/quote]
Two phrases come to mind, although I don’t remember the source:
Belief comes by understanding, and understanding by the Word of God.
Belief is nothing more than a repeated thought (I think this one started a forum ‘food fight’ a while back)
In my own experience, I can say that I have CHOSEN to look at (as objectively as I can) and improve my beliefs…which in turn can improve my life and world-view. I started doing this when I was in a very dark place (depression, grief). Call it positive thinking if you want, doesn’t matter. It was (and is) a daily exercise, but I’m infinitely happier because of it.
So to answer your question…Yes, beliefs are involuntary, until you CHOOSE to take charge of them.
[quote]Oleena wrote:<<< We should try hooking Westerners meditating on god up to electrodes and see how it compares to the eastern meditation.[/quote]Where do I sign up?
Very interesting, to say the least! I enjoyed how he talks about people who claim to believe in science rather than God. In reality those people are being simply ignorant. Dr. Voddie Baucham Jr. talks about how the Bible never asks for blind faith. People often ask for the Bible to be proven on these boards! but even history can NOT be proven with the scientific method. He is a pastor of the Grace Family Baptist Church, so you all know = ][/quote]
The title of the thread is oxymoronic. How can one ‘choose’ what to believe? Isn’t believing/disbelieving an involuntary process?
As an atheist for God, I would love to believe. I have read the bible and find a great deal of interest, guidance and wisdom within. I am willing to believe but how do I make myself believe?[/quote]Regardless of what anybody tries to tell you you cannot make yourself believe. Not in the gospel of Christ anyway. The very faith itself through which all the rest comes is His gift. If you ask Him for it from your heart He’s already given it to you. Buckle up because life will just be beginning. God doesn’t do trial versions with the key code to come later if you like His life. Only total surrender up front will do.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Yes, I agree come like little children!
You do good to bring up becoming like little children and you’d do good to follow the advice and go to Mass on Sunday instead of going golfing.[/quote]
Thank you for starting my morning with a hearty and excellent laugh!
Brother Chris, I’m one of those outdoorsy types that likes to get outside, breathe fresh air, and enjoy the splendor, beauty and peacefulness of God’s natural world.
It got me thinking about my favorite past Easters.
(1) One notable one was in Vermont…we skied in the morning and golfed in the afternoon – what a glorious Easter that was!
(2) Another Easter we went horseback riding – I still have a picture of the group. Since it was the early 80’s prep scene – we all wore a different color of pastel sweater (not on purpose!) – and we looked like a row of Easter eggs on top of horses. Goofy but fond memories!
(3) Every year, it’s a good time to put aside the petty family grievances and just enjoy each others company. As usual, I will encounter my screaming-catholic sister-in-law who will pass judgement on anyone for not attending church – but I will laugh and love and enjoy her company anyway.
I won’t even recount the one 6am Easter Mass I did go to years ago. I should have attended a later service because the 6am one was the darkest most depressing church services I’ve ever been to. I think they brought out the lilies and singing at a later service. Like a schmuck, I went to the 6am death, misery, ‘babies being found in the dumpster’ service…and quite frankly, could never go back. Sorry.
This year…Tee time 9:15am…Dinner reservations for 10 @ 2pm.
A sincere and Happy Easter to you and everyone else on this forum!
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:You don’t have any kids do ya?[/quote]Me?[/quote]Nah, I know you don’t have any kids yet.
Kids, especially boys, will fight over anything and everything if left to themselves. MINE MINE MINE GIMME GIMME GIMME. Temper tantrums, throw themselves on the floor screaming. They will not share food, toys, a seat etc unless taught to do so and even then it doesn’t come easy. All generally speaking.[/quote]
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Yes, G-d is in his nature, but you won’t be seeing me worshiping an oak tree, the par excellence of G-d’s presence is in the Mass.[/quote]
No, I wouldn’t worship an oak tree any more than I would worship a cross with a crucified Jesus on it or a statue of Mary. But we worship the Creator and marvel in the manifestation of divine ideas and form. Glad you enjoy the Mass.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Yes, G-d is in his nature, but you won’t be seeing me worshiping an oak tree, the par excellence of G-d’s presence is in the Mass.[/quote]
No, I wouldn’t worship an oak tree any more than I would worship a cross with a crucified Jesus on it or a statue of Mary. But we worship the Creator and marvel in the manifestation of divine ideas and form. Glad you enjoy the Mass.[/quote]
Neither, I nor any Catholic I know worship the crucifix or a statue of Mary. We worship the Lord present in the Eucharist, which Jesus himself instituted in John 6, et al.
The Lord enjoys the Mass, which is thanksgiving and the Eucharist, which the Lord gave us as well, which means Thanksgiving in Greek.
While nobody has a lower opinion of catholicism than me it is not true that they “worship” objects or saints etc. They have some nonetheless superstitious notions of religious practice, but they have only one God and in some cases it may even be possible to uncover the actual gospel in somebody’s life underneath all that synthetic baggage.
Why do you have a low opinion of catholicism? It seems like it’s all the same thing to me.
Also, praying to the patron saint of whatever to ask for a specific thing seems blatantly pagan (as in: early religion) and polythesitic to me. Could you please explain what you mean? I would even go so far as to say that the trinity is a polytheiestic concept, three different, distinct gods.
[quote]Lover95 wrote:
Why do you have a low opinion of catholicism? It seems like it’s all the same thing to me.
Also, praying to the patron saint of whatever to ask for a specific thing seems blatantly pagan (as in: early religion) and polythesitic to me. Could you please explain what you mean? I would even go so far as to say that the trinity is a polytheiestic concept, three different, distinct gods.[/quote]
Catholics hold that praying to a saint is asking someone that is Holier than you to pray to G-d on your behalf, the Virgin Mary being the Holiest of the Saints. Prayer comes in many forms the basic form is A.C.T.S., or Adoration, Confession, Thanksgiving, and Supplication. People would do well to remember this when praying.
It is not polytheistic, because the saints are not gods and we do not worship them. Some say honor is worship, but then I have to ask why did G-d tell us to worship our parents in the fourth commandment?
I can see where you’re coming from with the Trinity, and the Trinity isn’t polytheistic though. They are not three DIFFERENT, distinct gods. They are three distinct persons, of the same pure nature, that is Being. So, three persons…one G-d. It is difficult to understand, sometimes I have a difficult time understanding because we see in the physical and G-d is pure spirit.
[quote]Lover95 wrote:
Is the eucharist the literal flesh of chirst, or is it just a metaphor?[/quote]
WTF?
Absolutely, it’s literal. On the third day Mary tore strips of flesh off Christ. That’s what the priests put in our mouths at communion. The reason there is such a decline in Church attendance is that we are running out of genuine Christ meat.
[quote]Lover95 wrote:
Is the eucharist the literal flesh of chirst, or is it just a metaphor?[/quote]
WTF?
Absolutely, it’s literal. On the third day Mary tore strips of flesh off Christ. That’s what the priests put in our mouths at communion. The reason there is such a decline in Church attendance is that we are running out of genuine Christ meat.[/quote]
No, this is not true.
If it was we would be cannibals, even though we have been accused of being cannibals and I have a drinking team named the Catholic Cannibals, it is not actually true that Catholics are cannibals. Under the appearance of bread and wine it is the ENTIRE body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. We are not eating pieces of Jesus, we are consuming the entire body and blood of Jesus.
[quote]Lover95 wrote:
Is the eucharist the literal flesh of chirst, or is it just a metaphor?[/quote]
WTF?
Absolutely, it’s literal. On the third day Mary tore strips of flesh off Christ. That’s what the priests put in our mouths at communion. The reason there is such a decline in Church attendance is that we are running out of genuine Christ meat.[/quote]
No, this is not true.
If it was we would be cannibals, even though we have been accused of being cannibals and I have a drinking team named the Catholic Cannibals, it is not actually true that Catholics are cannibals. Under the appearance of bread and wine it is the ENTIRE body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. We are not eating pieces of Jesus, we are consuming the entire body and blood of Jesus.[/quote]
[quote]Lover95 wrote:
Is the eucharist the literal flesh of chirst, or is it just a metaphor?[/quote]
WTF?
Absolutely, it’s literal. On the third day Mary tore strips of flesh off Christ. That’s what the priests put in our mouths at communion. The reason there is such a decline in Church attendance is that we are running out of genuine Christ meat.[/quote]
No, this is not true.
If it was we would be cannibals, even though we have been accused of being cannibals and I have a drinking team named the Catholic Cannibals, it is not actually true that Catholics are cannibals. Under the appearance of bread and wine it is the ENTIRE body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. We are not eating pieces of Jesus, we are consuming the entire body and blood of Jesus.[/quote]
Sarcasm detector not working today?[/quote]
Guess you didn’t get my sarcasm in the Catholic Cannibals comment.
[quote]Lover95 wrote:
Is the eucharist the literal flesh of chirst, or is it just a metaphor?[/quote]
WTF?
Absolutely, it’s literal. On the third day Mary tore strips of flesh off Christ. That’s what the priests put in our mouths at communion. The reason there is such a decline in Church attendance is that we are running out of genuine Christ meat.[/quote]
No, this is not true.
If it was we would be cannibals, even though we have been accused of being cannibals and I have a drinking team named the Catholic Cannibals, it is not actually true that Catholics are cannibals. Under the appearance of bread and wine it is the ENTIRE body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. We are not eating pieces of Jesus, we are consuming the entire body and blood of Jesus.[/quote]
Sarcasm detector not working today?[/quote]
Guess you didn’t get my sarcasm in the Catholic Cannibals comment.[/quote]
I think it’s a good name. You are correct that we have been accused of cannibalism. See Geraldis Cambransis’s ‘Topography of Ireland’. We used to eat babies and turn sticks into snakes with black magic apparently.