[quote]ThatGirl77 wrote:
thor wrote:
If you gotta go to a Chiro - don’t get your neck “adjusted” it can cause strokes.
Really? Cuz, um, I’ve been going for 5 years now and have had, wait, let me count… zero strokes!
Yet my father, who has never seen a chiro and believes they’re quacks has had, wait, let me count again… at least 2 strokes!
Your reasoning that neck adjustments cause strokes is as ridiculous as mine is that lack of neck adjustments cause strokes.
If neck adjustments cause strokes then why aren’t there more stroke victims out there?
You’re full of crap.[/quote]
No, he’s not. people have died and have been paralyzed from neck adjustments.
Anyone who refers to themselves as a doctor when they are CLEARLY not shouldn’t be taken very seriously.
[quote]ScottL wrote:
belligerent wrote:
ScottL wrote:
Chiros have been invaluable to me after ankle sprains. I had one sprain that wasn’t right after months. 30 secs after adjusting my ankle bone (talus) the pain was gone.
What does it mean to “adjust” one’s talus?
Presumably adjusting means making a small change which restored it to its normal position and alignment with respect to the adjecent legbone (tibia) and heel bone (calcaneus). It does not take much imagination to think that spraining one’s ankle could result in small changes in position or aligment. All I can tell you is that months of it not being right ended in like 30 secs. I didn’t even know chiros could do that, I was in the office for something else and happend to mention that I’d hurt my ankle.
Apparently geting one’s talus checked as well as having certain areas of the ankle ARTed is a good idea after ankle sprains.
[/quote]
I sprained my thumb when I was a teenager. After weeks of it not being right my mom yanked on it and set it back into place. 30 seconds of pain and then it was as good as new.
I am of the view point that chiropractic work in conjunction with ART and mobility work is key to progression in training.
BGB . . . I’m not sure where you’re based in Ontario however I’ve visited Dr. Ken Kinakin, who’s an ex-powerlifter, been interviewed here, and is the founder of SWIS (www.swis.ca - a fantastic resource by the way), and he’s been great. He has helped me tremendously with a pinched nerve in my shoulder as well as an imbalance in my pelvis that led to my posterior chain being shut down. He is also good friends with Charles Poliquin and Dr. Mauro DiPasquale.
PM me if you’d like more details.
Cheers,
Sasha
[quote]gojira wrote:
[/quote]
So they have to perpetuate the subluxation myth in order to get paid by Medicare?
No wonder it is such a confused bag of shit. The government is essentially mandating that they lie in order to get paid.
I have no doubt that there are some chiros out there that do quality work helping people but it is hard not to be skeptical about the majority of them.
Perhaps Dr. Ryan can give some insight. He is a straight shooter.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
gojira wrote:
So they have to perpetuate the subluxation myth in order to get paid by Medicare?
No wonder it is such a confused bag of shit. The government is essentially mandating that they lie in order to get paid.
I have no doubt that there are some chiros out there that do quality work helping people but it is hard not to be skeptical about the majority of them.
Perhaps Dr. Ryan can give some insight. He is a straight shooter.
[/quote]
As with anything else, there are extremes on both sides of the spectrum. I posted the above link to help explain the whole subluxation thing.
Penn & Teller did a Bullshit program on alternative medicine and explored chiropractic in the process. However, they chose to focus on one quack in particular so I don’t think it was quite as balanced as it should have been. I have used an ART practitioner while I would never go to a straight chiropractor for an “adjustment”.
However, there are many professional sports teams that use chiropractors on a
regular basis and I’m sure that they wouldn’t put their their million dollar athletes at risk if there was not some portion of the practice that is credible.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
baretta wrote:
ThatGirl77 wrote:
thor wrote:
If you gotta go to a Chiro - don’t get your neck “adjusted” it can cause strokes.
Really? Cuz, um, I’ve been going for 5 years now and have had, wait, let me count… zero strokes!
Yet my father, who has never seen a chiro and believes they’re quacks has had, wait, let me count again… at least 2 strokes!
Your reasoning that neck adjustments cause strokes is as ridiculous as mine is that lack of neck adjustments cause strokes.
If neck adjustments cause strokes then why aren’t there more stroke victims out there?
You’re full of crap.
No, he’s not. people have died and have been paralyzed from neck adjustments.
Anyone who refers to themselves as a doctor when they are CLEARLY not shouldn’t be taken very seriously.
No he’s not full of crap, but the odds of suffering a CVA (cardiovascular accident) from a cervical manipulation is AT LEAST 1:400,000. Do you know what is considered an acceptable risk by the AMA? 1:10,000. Thats right, MDs regularly take risks that are far higher than that of a cervical manip… In fact, you are far more likely to die from medicine prescribed to you by an MD, than from any form of chiro adjustment. Furthermore, I don’t know why you think that chiros are not doctors. Why do you think they are called ‘Doctors of Chiropractic’? And for your info, a chiro will have a far better understanding of the musculoskeletal system, than your average MD.[/quote]
When I was reading over the waiver during my first visit to the chiro, it mentioned the potential risk for stroke from neck adjustments at somewhere between 1 in 1 million (chance of getting struck by lightning) and 1 in 10 million (chance of sudden death from a normal dose of aspirin). I also asked my chiro about it, and he said there are different types of neck adjustments: cervical (down where the spine tucks meets the rib cage) and occipital (not 100% sure that was the term used for the 2nd one, but it referred to the region where the spine enters into the skull). If a stroke was going to be triggered, it would be with the occipital adjustment and people can simply request not to receive one if they’re that worried about it.
The way I see it, you’re far more likely to die in the car trip to the chiro, so if neck adjustments give you some pain relief, then it’s worth the ridiculously low risk.
[quote]SashaG wrote:
I am of the view point that chiropractic work in conjunction with ART and mobility work is key to progression in training.
BGB . . . I’m not sure where you’re based in Ontario however I’ve visited Dr. Ken Kinakin, who’s an ex-powerlifter, been interviewed here, and is the founder of SWIS (www.swis.ca - a fantastic resource by the way), and he’s been great. He has helped me tremendously with a pinched nerve in my shoulder as well as an imbalance in my pelvis that led to my posterior chain being shut down. He is also good friends with Charles Poliquin and Dr. Mauro DiPasquale.
PM me if you’d like more details.
Cheers,
Sasha
[/quote]
you have mail!
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
ScottL wrote:
belligerent wrote:
ScottL wrote:
Chiros have been invaluable to me after ankle sprains. I had one sprain that wasn’t right after months. 30 secs after adjusting my ankle bone (talus) the pain was gone.
What does it mean to “adjust” one’s talus?
Presumably adjusting means making a small change which restored it to its normal position and alignment with respect to the adjecent legbone (tibia) and heel bone (calcaneus). It does not take much imagination to think that spraining one’s ankle could result in small changes in position or aligment. All I can tell you is that months of it not being right ended in like 30 secs. I didn’t even know chiros could do that, I was in the office for something else and happend to mention that I’d hurt my ankle.
Apparently geting one’s talus checked as well as having certain areas of the ankle ARTed is a good idea after ankle sprains.
I sprained my thumb when I was a teenager. After weeks of it not being right my mom yanked on it and set it back into place. 30 seconds of pain and then it was as good as new.
[/quote]
When I was a teenager, part of my anatomy got very stiff and sensitive. So Zap’s mom readjusted it too, repeatedly. It helped that one time, but it still happens 20 years later. Now I just readjust it myself.
Just kidding Zap, I couldn’t resist.
[quote]gojira wrote:
As with anything else, there are extremes on both sides of the spectrum. I posted the above link to help explain the whole subluxation thing.
Penn & Teller did a Bullshit program on alternative medicine and explored chiropractic in the process. However, they chose to focus on one quack in particular so I don’t think it was quite as balanced as it should have been. I have used an ART practitioner while I would never go to a straight chiropractor for an “adjustment”.
[/quote]
Penn and Teller also did a program exposing the fact that working out is totally useless. On one hand, they exposed some fitness industry lies.
On the other hand, they delivered a clear message that your a product of your genes, and that’s the end of the story, so you’ll never change your body by pursuing fitness.
Great message guys!
[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
ThatGirl77 wrote:
Your reasoning that neck adjustments cause strokes is as ridiculous as mine is that lack of neck adjustments cause strokes.
If neck adjustments cause strokes then why aren’t there more stroke victims out there?
You’re full of crap.
Thor is not full of crap. Strokes resulting from neck manipulation are a very real concern.
http://www.neck911usa.com/prob.htm
[/quote]
Wow, I must have to spell it out for people.
It may well be a real concern - I know it’s not always my idea of a good time to get my neck adjusted! But it does help my migraines.
I said he was full of crap because he indicated that ALL neck manipulaitons cause strokes. That is NOT true, therefore a blanket statement like that is full of crap.
Jeez, ppl, get the sense of somehting before you nitpick, huh?
[quote]Jinx Me wrote:
gojira wrote:
As with anything else, there are extremes on both sides of the spectrum. I posted the above link to help explain the whole subluxation thing.
Penn & Teller did a Bullshit program on alternative medicine and explored chiropractic in the process. However, they chose to focus on one quack in particular so I don’t think it was quite as balanced as it should have been. I have used an ART practitioner while I would never go to a straight chiropractor for an “adjustment”.
Penn and Teller also did a program exposing the fact that working out is totally useless. On one hand, they exposed some fitness industry lies.
On the other hand, they delivered a clear message that your a product of your genes, and that’s the end of the story, so you’ll never change your body by pursuing fitness.
Great message guys!
[/quote]
Although I love these guys, they ignore inconvenient and unentertaining facts.
[quote]ThatGirl77 wrote:
thor wrote:
If you gotta go to a Chiro - don’t get your neck “adjusted” it can cause strokes.
Really? Cuz, um, I’ve been going for 5 years now and have had, wait, let me count… zero strokes!
Yet my father, who has never seen a chiro and believes they’re quacks has had, wait, let me count again… at least 2 strokes!
Your reasoning that neck adjustments cause strokes is as ridiculous as mine is that lack of neck adjustments cause strokes.
If neck adjustments cause strokes then why aren’t there more stroke victims out there?
You’re full of crap.[/quote]
No my dear, I am not full of crap. I said stokes were possible, not that they would occur.(Thanks to my t-brothers for the links)
In my business, I run into chiros and have had to research their pseudo-science. Based upon my years of experience and research on the subject i think they are quacks. If you want to know more, Quackwatch has a great data base and is a good place to start.
Here is a test for ya. Ask your chiro to show you your subluxation on an x-ray, (you will not see it b/c its not there)(some chiros will tell you you can’t see them on x-rays) then take your x-ray to a radiologist or M.D. and ask to show you a subluxation on an x-ray. (they can’t b/c it will not be there)
If that is not good enough for yyou - -this is from the History of Chiropractic: “Chiropractic theory is rooted in the notions of Daniel David Palmer, a grocer and “magnetic healer” who postulated that the basic cause of disease was interference with the body’s nerve supply. Approximately a hundred years ago, he concluded that “A subluxated vertebrae . . . is the cause of 95 percent of all diseases. . . . The other five percent is caused by displaced joints other than those of the vertebral column.” [1] He proclaimed that subluxations interfered with the body’s expression of “Innate Intelligence”?the “Soul, Spirit, or Spark of Life” that controlled the healing process. He proposed to remedy the gamut of disease by manipulating or “adjusting” the problem areas.” Sounds like good science doesn’t it?
If you like Choiros and they make you feel better - God bless ya - keep going. Just know that they are not “real” (meaning medical) doctors, who cannot perform surgery, prescribe drugs, and in some states, cannot interpret MRIs, CT scans and cannot even use a stethoscope.
BTW - My wife does not listen to me on the subject either - she still sees one. ?
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
baretta wrote:
ThatGirl77 wrote:
thor wrote:
If you gotta go to a Chiro - don’t get your neck “adjusted” it can cause strokes.
Really? Cuz, um, I’ve been going for 5 years now and have had, wait, let me count… zero strokes!
Yet my father, who has never seen a chiro and believes they’re quacks has had, wait, let me count again… at least 2 strokes!
Your reasoning that neck adjustments cause strokes is as ridiculous as mine is that lack of neck adjustments cause strokes.
If neck adjustments cause strokes then why aren’t there more stroke victims out there?
You’re full of crap.
No, he’s not. people have died and have been paralyzed from neck adjustments.
Anyone who refers to themselves as a doctor when they are CLEARLY not shouldn’t be taken very seriously.
No he’s not full of crap, but the odds of suffering a CVA (cardiovascular accident) from a cervical manipulation is AT LEAST 1:400,000. Do you know what is considered an acceptable risk by the AMA? 1:10,000. Thats right, MDs regularly take risks that are far higher than that of a cervical manip… In fact, you are far more likely to die from medicine prescribed to you by an MD, than from any form of chiro adjustment. Furthermore, I don’t know why you think that chiros are not doctors. Why do you think they are called ‘Doctors of Chiropractic’? And for your info, a chiro will have a far better understanding of the musculoskeletal system, than your average MD.[/quote]
Sure the odds are low, but the risk is there. I wasn’t arguing about the odds.
I can call myself president, but it dont make it so. Chiro’s are NOT doctors. doctors go to med school. only people that go to med school are doctors.
Chiros are doctors like Condoleezza Rice is a doctor… in COMMON USAGE, the term “doctor” refers to medical doctors.
Does anybody else see a parallel here between chiropractors/physicians and creationism/evolution?
One has hard science and evidence based support backing it up.
The other seems to based entirely on faith.