[quote]on edge wrote:
Kobe didn’t do it. He had sex with her but he didn’t rape her. That is fairly clear.[/quote]
What is clear is that Kobe admits to a nonconsensual sexual assault for which he apologized. He also has proven that when question by law enforcement he is a liar.
Sorry I told AirT I was done but I was just responding to a subsequent post. on edge, I am sure we wont agree with the Kobe thing.
Martha got raked. Whatever happened to most of the Enron folks or WorldCom or Tyco?
[quote]JokerFMJ wrote:
No, Kobe confessed to cheating on his Wife, not to raping the girl, which is what he was accused of.[/quote]
He confessed in his apology for sexual assault. He also lied initially. He’s a proven liar. With you too I will agree to disagree.
[quote]JokerFMJ wrote:
Vick hasn’t obstructed justice that I know about. Has he?[/quote]
No but I had mentioned Martha in regards to being a celebrity and whether that helped or hurt her in a federal case. Hadn’t meant to imply she and Vick were up on the same charges.
It is now official, all of Vicks co defendants have pleaded guilty:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/08/17/vick.friday.ap/index.html
His (Vick) last two co-defendants pleaded guilty Friday and implicated Vick in bankrolling gambling on dogfights. One of them said the Atlanta Falcons quarterback helped drown or hang dogs that didn’t do well.
Falcons owner Arthur Blank said Vick’s attorneys were negotiating with prosecutors as of late afternoon, trying to hammer out a plea deal.
“It seems to be a pretty clear indication there will be some sort of plea entered,” Blank said before the Falcons preseason game at Buffalo. “When? I’m not positive.”
As part of his plea agreement, Phillips signed a statement that said Vick joined in executing at least eight dogs that didn’t do well in test fights by various methods, including hanging and drowning.
“Phillips agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips, and Vick,” the statement said.
Phillips and Peace also backed up Taylor’s assertion that Vick was involved in gambling.
“The `Bad Newz Kennels’ operation and gambling monies were almost exclusively funded by Vick,” according to statements by the two men.
i heard on the radio earlier the feds are not budging on a minimum 1-3 year prison sentence. looks like he will be doing time for sure, i wonder if watching those poor creatures die was worth it. what an idiot.
Based on what I heard reported today, I think Vick will be doing 2+ years and the Federal Government will not be accepting any plea bargains less than that.
The reason for this because of the gambling and the solid testimony.
Granted, they’re plea deal testimonies, but still…
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
JokerFMJ wrote:
No, Kobe confessed to cheating on his Wife, not to raping the girl, which is what he was accused of.
He confessed in his apology for sexual assault. He also lied initially. He’s a proven liar. With you too I will agree to disagree.
[/quote]
[quote]Kobe Bryan’t Statement Says:
“Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did.”
[/quote]
That’s not even close to admitting that he knew she wasn’t consenting at the time.
I agree with you that he lied, no argument there.
However, you mentioned in a previous post that people tend to blame the woman… Well, when the woman goes out and has sex with multiple partners later the same night she was “sexually assaulted” I do tend not to believe her and maybe even blame her.
[quote]JokerFMJ wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
JokerFMJ wrote:
No, Kobe confessed to cheating on his Wife, not to raping the girl, which is what he was accused of.
He confessed in his apology for sexual assault. He also lied initially. He’s a proven liar. With you too I will agree to disagree.
Kobe Bryan’t Statement Says:
“Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did.”
That’s not even close to admitting that he knew she wasn’t consenting at the time.
I agree with you that he lied, no argument there.
However, you mentioned in a previous post that people tend to blame the woman… Well, when the woman goes out and has sex with multiple partners later the same night she was “sexually assaulted” I do tend not to believe her and maybe even blame her.[/quote]
He admitted that she was not consenting!
So he was lying to the cops about the entire incident, but not about it being consensual? I guess you pick and choose the lies or the liar? He was only lying once but not about anything else? Lie once, you lie again and again.
And it isn’t unusual for victims of rape to have sex soon after sometimes in an effort to “erase” what had just happened to them. They often use it as a defense mechanism to take back control of their body and their right to say no or to say yes.
Blame her? I hope you aren’t even suggesting that.
I’ve gone off topic again.
Joker, this one is never going to be a universal. I respect your viewpoint though, I just don’t share it.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
JokerFMJ wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
JokerFMJ wrote:
No, Kobe confessed to cheating on his Wife, not to raping the girl, which is what he was accused of.
He confessed in his apology for sexual assault. He also lied initially. He’s a proven liar. With you too I will agree to disagree.
Kobe Bryan’t Statement Says:
“Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did.”
That’s not even close to admitting that he knew she wasn’t consenting at the time.
I agree with you that he lied, no argument there.
However, you mentioned in a previous post that people tend to blame the woman… Well, when the woman goes out and has sex with multiple partners later the same night she was “sexually assaulted” I do tend not to believe her and maybe even blame her.
He admitted that she was not consenting!
So he was lying to the cops about the entire incident, but not about it being consensual? I guess you pick and choose the lies or the liar? He was only lying once but not about anything else? Lie once, you lie again and again.
[/quote]
So if you lie about anything in your life, anything you so thereafter is a lie?
And he didn’t admit she wasn’t consenting… Don’t neglect that first line of his statement.
[quote]JokerFMJ wrote:
So if you lie about anything in your life, anything you so thereafter is a lie?
And he didn’t admit she wasn’t consenting… Don’t neglect that first line of his statement.[/quote]
We aren’t going to agree Joker.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
What alternate world is this that Kobe admitted to raping the girl? He wasn’t on trial for sex, he was on trial for rape. In which case the girl quickly showed she had alterior motives for her allegations.
He admitted to it being a non-consensual encounter, and he was on trial for sexual assault. He also lied time and again. But of course blaming the woman is what a lot of folks do. Okay okay okay. I will stop with Kobe and just have to agree to disagree.
[\quote]
Nobody jumped to blame the girl, everybody actually jumped to her side which is why there were charges in the first place. Since we weren’t there we can only go by he say she say, and credibility. Based on her credibility she just has a weaker argument, a court system is not supposed to punish Kobe unless they think he did it. What would make any unbiased person think Kobe did it?
cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=207187&cl=3573302&ch=243724&src=sports
This is Eric Dickerson speaking about the Michael Vick situation.
I have never heard him speak, only used to watch him run all over the Giants when I was a kid. For a sound bite, I am very impressed.
I found what he said to be very interesting, especially about how playing in the NFL is a privilege and how you can’t tell these young guys anything.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/george_dohrmann/08/17/vick/index.html
This is an article by George Dohrman. I have been really impressed with this guy. He was the one who wrote the story in SI that really brought this to the public’s attention. The question I want people to take away from this is what Dohrman says at the end:
“6 years of animal cruelty…really says something about who Michael Vick is at his core”.
I agree with Dohrman. but what do you think? What does this say about Mike Vick at his core. His brother (Marcus) is a real shady character himself.
What is going on with that family?
Here is the exerpt from Dohrman:
…Fans will take it all in and decide that Michael Vick deserves to play football again, but with this caveat: Not in the NFL. He can make a living playing football, but it’s going to be on a backwater team in Saskatchewan or Grand Rapids, far from our line of sight. This may seem unfair to some, but six years of animal cruelty is not a blip, not a momentary lapse in judgment. It says something about who Michael Vick is at his core and it isn’t a trait fans desire in their quarterback.
Some would call this ending hypocritical when the likes of Little remain in the league, and they are right. Some will say that it is wrong that fans get more upset about the death of dogs than they do about the assaults on women committed by NFL players every year. They are right about that as well. But not all choices made by the electorate are sounds ones.
It would be nice to think that beginning with Vick, fans will demand more integrity from their NFL stars. Going forward, we won’t be so quick to hand out second chances. Or, maybe, we just really love dogs. Either way, this could be a landmark case on the docket of athletes seeking pardon. Vick could be the first NFL convict we chose to forget rather than forgive.
BREAKING NEWS!!!
MICHAEL VICK MAULED BY A PITBULL ON HIS WAY HOME!!!
check it out:
[quote]JokerFMJ wrote:
Based on what I heard reported today, I think Vick will be doing 2+ years and the Federal Government will not be accepting any plea bargains less than that.
The reason for this because of the gambling and the solid testimony.
Granted, they’re plea deal testimonies, but still…[/quote]
“Unfortunately, my comments so far are going to lead to my receiving countless emails from animal lovers and animal rights people who have decided by now that I am defending dogfighting and cruelty to animals. While those things are not irrelevant to Vick�??s behavior and very questionable judgment �?? provided the things alleged are true �?? they are irrelevant to my point that federal involvement has taken a bad situation and has made it much worse.”
“If Vick decides to plead guilty, it will be one more episode of the disappearance of the right to a fair trial. Why would Vick plead out? It is because federal prosecutors are preparing to bring in more indictments, this time under the Racketeering Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, or RICO. This abominable “law” (if one can call it that) takes so-called bad acts and then bundles them into the federal “crime” of “racketeering,” which is a nice way of saying that under RICO, people are charged with what only can be called imaginary crimes.”
[quote]orion wrote:
“If Vick decides to plead guilty, it will be one more episode of the disappearance of the right to a fair trial. Why would Vick plead out? It is because federal prosecutors are preparing to bring in more indictments, this time under the Racketeering Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, or RICO. This abominable “law” (if one can call it that) takes so-called bad acts and then bundles them into the federal “crime” of “racketeering,” which is a nice way of saying that under RICO, people are charged with what only can be called imaginary crimes.”
[/quote]
I believe the feds are prosecuting him because he traveled accross state lines to commit the crime, plus gambling. If that wasn’t the case he would’ve only had to deal with state of virginia. The state is also contemplating pressing charges against Vick.
I understand the reason they created RICO but I think the feds overused it. It was originally created for extreme mafia cases where witnesses would turn up dead and they couldn’t get any evidence. Now they use it for any case where they can’t get evidence.
Marcus Vick I’ve never liked, not even because of his off the field incidents, but on the field he has proven to be the biggest asshole. Michael on the other hand I truly believe he just got caught up doing something he didn’t think was that bad. Up until now dog fighters just haven’t been prosecuted that harshly, I’m sure he didn’t run the operation and he thought if he got caught at a fight he might get a little fine not this.
Considering this investigation supposedly has been for over 6 years by the feds, its hard to beleive the falcons had no clue what he was doing.
I do wish there was a law for stupidity. He has done way too many things stupid in this and other cases asking to get caught. He might as well wear one of the stop snitching shirts to court.
So for PETA is this good or bad that he is pleading guilty?
VICK TO PLEAD GUILTY!!!
There is a ton of news out on this so I will try and take it one story at a time.
If I repeat a story or repeat something somebody else has posted, I apologize in advance.
This is the front page of SI.com with Vick as the top story:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/
Here is the cover story:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/08/20/vick.plea.ap/index.html
"With three associates prepared to testify that he brutally executed dogs and bankrolled gambling, the NFL star agreed Monday to “accept full responsibility” for his role in a dogfighting ring and plead guilty to federal conspiracy charges.
Worries about playing time will have to wait while Vick faces prison time – from one to five years.
The maximum term is five years in prison and a $250,000 fine, although federal sentencing guidelines likely would call for less. Defense attorneys would not divulge details of the plea agreement or how much time Vick can expect to serve.
However, a government official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the terms are not final, told The Associated Press that prosecutors will recommend a sentence of a year to 18 months.
The official said such a sentence would be more than what is usually recommended for first-time offenders, reflecting the government’s attempt to show that animal abusers will receive more than a slap on the wrist. U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson is not bound by prosecutors’ recommendations or the sentencing guidelines and will have the final say."
“It’s not personal, it’s business”.
Michael Corleone said that in the godfather. It is probably more true in the NFL.
Already (NFL) people are talking about who is going to hire Mike Vick once he gets out of jail.
I guess this is all dependent upon whether the league gives him a lifetime ban or not. The idea that somebody would hire him is kinda mind boggling to me.
I don’t see them giving him a lifetime ban. Although, I can see them giving him several years, which would effectively eliminate him from being a PR liability worth taking at 30+ years of age.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/08/20/dohrmann.qa/index.html
George Dohrmann does a Q&A to fill us in on the Vick case. The three questions I found the most interesting:
SI.com: Why did Vick take the deal?
Dohrmann: When co-defendants Quanis Phillips, Purnell Peace, and Tony Taylor pled guilty to federal dogfighting conspiracy changes and agreed to testify against Vick, that made it seven witnesses for the government who could say Vick participated in dogfighting. Peace and Phillips could describe how Vick executed dogs as recently as last spring. Also, the government was preparing a superseding indictment that would have included racketeering charges against Vick, which carry a tougher penalty than the dogfighting charges.
SI.com: Could the judge impose a stiffer sentence?
Dohrmann: Usually judges stick to the guidelines, although the judge in Vick’s case – judge Henry Hudson – let it be known at the plea hearing for Peace and Phillips last Friday that he could sentence them to five years in prison and they couldn’t then get out of their pleas (or appeal). If Vick agrees to plead guilty to the same single charge as his friends (federal dogfighting conspiracy), he faces the same quandary. He might get the sentence his lawyers negotiated with prosecutors or he might get more. Hudson won’t make the final decision until the sentencing hearing, the date of which we won’t know until Monday.
SI.com: When would Vick likely go to jail? Where?
Dohrmann: It depends on the sentencing date, perhaps as soon as early next year. The Federal Bureau of Prisons will assign Vick to a prison and also determine the level of security he will require. There are two federal penitentiaries in Virginia – a maximum-security prison in Jonesville and a low-security facility in Petersburg – but it is too soon to say where Vick will serve his time