Vick Indicted!

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201

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:

yeah I saw that. The guy got fired, but damn he was right. Kobe had way more support than Vick.

[/quote]

Couldn’t agree with you more Airtruth. Nike still kept Kobe (although he didn’t appear in any advertisements), and the NBA allowed him to play the season while he was flying back and forth to Colorado for his trial.

I remember that pretty much every game where Kobe was in Colorado at court in the day, and his game was at night, it seemed like he either had a really good game, hit a game winning shot, or both.

202

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
It’s funny The president of the Atlanta Chapter was on hot97 this morning, although princeton might be a few cities out of range.

To be honest about the NAACP I don’t know what stance they will take if he’s convicted. I could see them just stepping away quietly and stating that all they ever asked for was a fair trial. That would have been a great question for them to ask him this morning.

Vick is a young outstanding athlete, and as you said yourself just being an athlete alone sets you as a hero in many kids minds. Couple that with the fact that he had an extremely underprivelaged childhood and still made it. This is all he had to do to set himself as a hero. It’s not right, but as many frustrated athletes have realized its the way it is.

If I come to you and tell you your father is a criminal what is the first thing your going to say? Suppose you had no father and your heroes are athletes and rappers when somebody says something bad about them how do you expect them to act?

Oprah and Bill Cosby have way too many factors distancing themselves from the underprivelaged young black community.

  1. There old. Be honest who do you think a young person is going to accept advice from more, there father? or there GrandFather?
  2. Way too much money for way too long. Making it out of poor neighborhoods in 1950’s is way different then making it out of a poor neighborhood in the 90’s.
  3. Self-Entitlement that leads to lack of respect to young people.

Number 3 is most important, because when you say something respectfully whether correct or incorrect most people will try to listen. However, Bill Cosby and Oprah both because of 1 and 2 refuse to do this and spit in the face of the young black community.

I know many young black women raising kids by themselves, most have two jobs and the jobs they have don’t really care about what they have to do to be home for their kids.
This is a direct quote from Bill Cosby.
“I’m talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was two? Where were you when he was twelve? Where were you when he was eighteen, and how come you don’t know he had a pistol?”

What does this do?

  1. These kids fathers are not going to be there crying(they weren’t there), the mothers will.
  2. Your telling this mother who had to work 2 Jobs working how many hours to bring home $24000 a year living in NY/NJ area that this is her fault and stop crying. Yes she can stay home and not work but what will you say when her and her baby are homeless? To get off her ass and work? Love doesn’t pay bills, love doesn’t buy groceries.
  3. There are some ignorant people out there, by far the majority are not. Now you the previous black hero are condemning this working class mother in the same breath as all the ignorant ass people out there. Thats as bad as all the racist screaming all blacks are idiots.
  4. Killed what little self-esteem this woman has as it hurts alot more when your grandfather tells you you ain’t shit, then when some outsider does.
  5. You just told this 18 year old kid who is making right and wrong decisions in his life that his mother wasn’t there for him, and nobody loves him. Are you going to expect him to get out of jail and know what love is to raise a kid?

This can go on and on. It all boils down to this. I don’t think their intentions are wrong, but they have old people syndrome. They think they can say whatever they want because there 70.[/quote]

I am so sick of “he’s just such a victim” mentality.

You want to talk about a lack of respect towards others let’s talk about the youth of today. There is such a marked and conscious lack of respect to others in todays youth. They have no manners, they have little to no sense of propriety, it is all “me me me me me.”

I am tired of the trotted out, noble ghetto victim who is the way he is because society failed him.

WE MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS!

My family was poor. When I was a kid I picked fruit in the summers for money in the heat and sweat with bugs and I hated it, but we needed the money.

I never robbed a convenience store, I never sold drugs, I never hosted a dog fight OR FINANCED ONE.

so played,

It is this type of delusional rationalization for criminal behavior that has people setting standards low for some, and excusing unexcusable behavior.

203

Hey Guys,

I will put my 2 cents in here because I remember the situation with Kobe Bryant. I never believed that he raped that girl. I really think she was a psycho.

The comments of the before mentioned sports writer assumed that Kobe did indeed rape that girl and I don’t buy that he did. Obviously I was not in the room with them so I am only speaking my gut feeling on the whole thing.

If Mike Vick had been accused of gang raping a girl, with 4 other co defendents, at a property he owned, and not only denied the rape but denied that he was there, then maybe I could relate the two cases. There were no poorly named rape stands, 65 indentured sex servants, sex slave kennels or hidden sex chambers on the property of Kobe’s house (at least I don’t think there are). He was at a hotel when the incident went down.

There weren’t the bodies of 8 dead girls found on the hotel property, nor do I ever remember Kobe lying to the commisioner about his involvement in the situation (at least to my knowledge he didn’t).

Kobe Bryant admitted that he had some relations with that girl, and that it was consentual. He just denied that it was rape and then he apologized not only to his wife but to the league and the fans. It was a he said she said situation.

Mike Vick says he likes dogs (I know he is under that direction of his attorneys to rightfully protect himself from having his words twisted around) but given the situation he needs to make more of a statement than just “I want to clear my good name”.

Everytime I look at Vick’s face on t.v. I don’t see a guy who is remorseful about the situaton on his property If he loved dogs even 1/10th as much as I do I would have expected some kind of sadness in his eyes about the situation. Instead I see a cocky arrogant S.O.B. who really believes he can buy his way out of this.

More so, animals can’t speak for themselves or defend themselves in a court of law or in the media. Right or wrong, when you are that brutal to an animal that can’t defend itself, people are going to respond very strongly to that. Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Mike

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:

yeah I saw that. The guy got fired, but damn he was right. Kobe had way more support than Vick.

Couldn’t agree with you more Airtruth. Nike still kept Kobe (although he didn’t appear in any advertisements), and the NBA allowed him to play the season while he was flying back and forth to Colorado for his trial.

I remember that pretty much every game where Kobe was in Colorado at court in the day, and his game was at night, it seemed like he either had a really good game, hit a game winning shot, or both.[/quote]

204

The problem is these guys think they are untouchable when they reach star status,in some cases they are…money can buy anything and everything has a price.

205


Have a pitbull myself, and unfortunately these dog fights go on frequently in the metro detroit area.

206

Well said Mike.

Yeah, I don’t think Kobe raped the girl. I remember something that she had sex with 3 different guys in the 3 nights before the ordeal with Kobe, so I think she was kinda out there. And yes, from what I know, he was up front with Commissioner Stern and the Lakers.

I do agree with you on the last part, about how animals cannot defend themselves. And because animals cannot defend themselves, that does not mean humans can do harm unto them.

[quote]MikeShank wrote:
Hey Guys,

I will put my 2 cents in here because I remember the situation with Kobe Bryant. I never believed that he raped that girl. I really think she was a psycho.

The comments of the before mentioned sports writer assumed that Kobe did indeed rape that girl and I don’t buy that he did. Obviously I was not in the room with them so I am only speaking my gut feeling on the whole thing.

If Mike Vick had been accused of gang raping a girl, with 4 other co defendents, at a property he owned, and not only denied the rape but denied that he was there, then maybe I could relate the two cases. There were no poorly named rape stands, 65 indentured sex servants, sex slave kennels or hidden sex chambers on the property of Kobe’s house (at least I don’t think there are). He was at a hotel when the incident went down.

There weren’t the bodies of 8 dead girls found on the hotel property, nor do I ever remember Kobe lying to the commisioner about his involvement in the situation (at least to my knowledge he didn’t).

Kobe Bryant admitted that he had some relations with that girl, and that it was consentual. He just denied that it was rape and then he apologized not only to his wife but to the league and the fans. It was a he said she said situation.

Mike Vick says he likes dogs (I know he is under that direction of his attorneys to rightfully protect himself from having his words twisted around) but given the situation he needs to make more of a statement than just “I want to clear my good name”.

Everytime I look at Vick’s face on t.v. I don’t see a guy who is remorseful about the situaton on his property If he loved dogs even 1/10th as much as I do I would have expected some kind of sadness in his eyes about the situation. Instead I see a cocky arrogant S.O.B. who really believes he can buy his way out of this.

More so, animals can’t speak for themselves or defend themselves in a court of law or in the media. Right or wrong, when you are that brutal to an animal that can’t defend itself, people are going to respond very strongly to that. Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Mike

[/quote]

207

[quote]MikeShank wrote:
Hey Guys,

More so, animals can’t speak for themselves or defend themselves in a court of law or in the media. Right or wrong, when you are that brutal to an animal that can’t defend itself, people are going to respond very strongly to that. Please let me know what you think.

[/quote]

Animals can’t defend themselves because they are…animals.

What does a dog possess that makes him worthy of possessing rights in the sense that humans possess rights? I think domestication is a very poor argument. Just because a species has a gentle temperament does not make it “better” than a species that has an aggressive temperament.

I’d really like to know what sets dogs apart from other species. In a way, I kind of respect the people for total animal liberation. They at least don’t pick their favorite species for protection and damn the rest.

208

Don’t mean to hijack, but is the penalty the same for all types of animal fighting, or does it depend on the animal?

In essence, does cockfighting carry the same penalty as dog fighting?

209

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Airtruth wrote:

WE MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS!

My family was poor. When I was a kid I picked fruit in the summers for money in the heat and sweat with bugs and I hated it, but we needed the money.
[/quote]
your FAMILY was poor? Exactly!!!

Say what you want but I would bet all of my money you take a 100 kids of any race and any gender with no family let the streets raise them, and 90% of them will have a life filled with wrong decisions.

I’d then bet double or nothing that after they turn 25 you tell them well that was the past you have to change your life now still 75% won’t be able to just switch and be the great person that you are.

This discussion wasn’t even about why criminals do what they do(Does anybody read what I say?) This was specifically why Bill Cosby and Oprah are out of touch with the young black urban community.

And not to go in to your age but things were ALOT different when you were younger. $10,000 dollars a year while you could not live like a movie star can afford at the least rent and food enough so your Mother can come home and nurture you into a quality person.

What do you think all kids are just born evil nowadays? Too many black kids maybe? maybe black kids are just demented? Or better yet something in the water? Theres a reason why kids act the way they do, yes TV raises a lot of kids and thats because parents can not be home the way they used to.

210

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
Don’t mean to hijack, but is the penalty the same for all types of animal fighting, or does it depend on the animal?

In essence, does cockfighting carry the same penalty as dog fighting?[/quote]

No its not. But it also depends on the state, some states the penalty is the same.

I don’t know however if they are giving him a local penalty or federal. I beleive the feds stepped in because he conspired to travel across statelines to commit this crime.

MikeShank

I have a dog that I love very much, never participated in dog fighting. But if someone accused me of it I would just non-chalantly say no I didn’t I love dogs.

I don’t think its fair to say that because he is not as extreme as you, that he has to be some form of evil socio path. I definitely think he had an idea of what his family did, but they are building him up to be some kind of dog fighting kingpin. If he got a small fine and maybe some community service for gambling I can understand, but its extremely hard for me to believe that this guy had time to run an Interstate Dog fighting operation.

I don’t believe he went out back and electrocuted some dogs, or on the phone gave orders to put a hit on the dog.

As far as him getting suspended from the NFL, that had to happen. The nfl already suspended PacMan and Tank for charges, they would look like hypocrites if they did not suspend him, and I would say your right about Kobe most people did not believe he did it.

211

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

I am so sick of “he’s just such a victim” mentality.

You want to talk about a lack of respect towards others let’s talk about the youth of today. There is such a marked and conscious lack of respect to others in todays youth. They have no manners, they have little to no sense of propriety, it is all “me me me me me.”

I am tired of the trotted out, noble ghetto victim who is the way he is because society failed him.

WE MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS!

My family was poor. When I was a kid I picked fruit in the summers for money in the heat and sweat with bugs and I hated it, but we needed the money.

I never robbed a convenience store, I never sold drugs, I never hosted a dog fight OR FINANCED ONE.

so played,

It is this type of delusional rationalization for criminal behavior that has people setting standards low for some, and excusing unexcusable behavior.

[/quote]

Gotta say when I saw you on this post I kind of cringed but you have made several really good points. I couldn’t agree with this one more.

212

Hey Mike, from what I’ve read in the past with other dog fighting cases, the persons involved didn’t show as much emotion because the fighting animals were considered as commodities only, or ‘things’ that were just a part of the ‘business’.

These same people would often have families and pets of their own at home that they would never think of harming in any way, shape, or form. Some people are able to distance themselves from things like that. I can’t say one way or the other in regards to Vick, but it’s possible he could share that same sentiment. Again, not saying it’s right, only what it could be.

Some folks, in certain parts of the country, genuinely feel that animal fighting is not a big deal. Could it be Vick feels the same way? Or is it a regional thing? Say maybe more so in the south? Some discussion about it possibly being regional was had on ESPN before the indictment was handed down. Thoughts?

213

[quote]BLACKSMITH wrote:
Hey Mike, from what I’ve read in the past with other dog fighting cases, the persons involved didn’t show as much emotion because the fighting animals were considered as commodities only, or ‘things’ that were just a part of the ‘business’.

These same people would often have families and pets of their own at home that they would never think of harming in any way, shape, or form. Some people are able to distance themselves from things like that. I can’t say one way or the other in regards to Vick, but it’s possible he could share that same sentiment. Again, not saying it’s right, only what it could be.

Some folks, in certain parts of the country, genuinely feel that animal fighting is not a big deal. Could it be Vick feels the same way? Or is it a regional thing? Say maybe more so in the south? Some discussion about it possibly being regional was had on ESPN before the indictment was handed down. Thoughts?[/quote]

I would venture to say that almost everyone posting on this thread believes in some form of speciesism. Humans are “better” than all other species, right? With this as the basic tenet, it is a question of what other species deserve rights as well.

The people you are referring to probably think humans are the only species than can possess human rights. There are others (like everyone posting on this thread) who believe that some species, i.e. dogs, are more valuable than others and deserve rights as well.

214

[quote]billy martin wrote:
Have a pitbull myself, and unfortunately these dog fights go on frequently in the metro detroit area.[/quote]

Billy,

This maybe one of the most wonderful photos I have ever seen.

Thank you for contributing it to this thread. One of my goals with this thread is to show people (I am probably preaching to the choir here) that there is more to pitbulls than being a menace to society.

Sincerely,
Mike Cruickshank

215

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Airtruth wrote:

WE MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS!

My family was poor. When I was a kid I picked fruit in the summers for money in the heat and sweat with bugs and I hated it, but we needed the money.

your FAMILY was poor? Exactly!!!

Say what you want but I would bet all of my money you take a 100 kids of any race and any gender with no family let the streets raise them, and 90% of them will have a life filled with wrong decisions.

I’d then bet double or nothing that after they turn 25 you tell them well that was the past you have to change your life now still 75% won’t be able to just switch and be the great person that you are.

I never robbed a convenience store, I never sold drugs, I never hosted a dog fight OR FINANCED ONE.

so played,

It is this type of delusional rationalization for criminal behavior that has people setting standards low for some, and excusing unexcusable behavior.

This discussion wasn’t even about why criminals do what they do(Does anybody read what I say?) This was specifically why Bill Cosby and Oprah are out of touch with the young black urban community.

And not to go in to your age but things were ALOT different when you were younger. $10,000 dollars a year while you could not live like a movie star can afford at the least rent and food enough so your Mother can come home and nurture you into a quality person.

What do you think all kids are just born evil nowadays? Too many black kids maybe? maybe black kids are just demented? Or better yet something in the water? Theres a reason why kids act the way they do, yes TV raises a lot of kids and thats because parents can not be home the way they used to.[/quote]

And so now it is a race issue.

My dad was born in Watts and my mom in Detroit. They were the minority. They aren’t criminals.

And how old do you think I am! Get a grip.

Stop making excuses!

I’ve worked for the District Attorney’s office, I’ve volunteered at the family law clinic. These aren’t the noble poor that you are portraying.

They aren’t victims of society turning their backs. They aren’t just BLACK!

And you would be surprised how many of these households have both parents NOT WORKING but getting paid to stay home and raise their kids while the Middle Class gets the shaft and work two jobs to support their family and have to have their kids raised by strangers.

I don’t know where you get your statistics but they aren’t accurate. Maybe I shouldn’t use the word statistic and use your reasoned guess.

You keep making excuses for bad behavior. You do, there is no getting around that statment. They act that way because they are poor, they act that way because they were raised by tv, they act that way because daddy wasn’t home, they act that way because mama was mean to them.

Excuse, excuse, excuse. Enabling excuses. Worse, a society riding the wave of these enabling excuses and justifying their lack of moral integrity, their lack of self-determination and accountability, and a society that believes they are owed more than what they want to legally work for and that laws are only for those people who haven’t SUFFERED the way they have.

216

[quote]itsthenickman wrote:
BLACKSMITH wrote:
Hey Mike, from what I’ve read in the past with other dog fighting cases, the persons involved didn’t show as much emotion because the fighting animals were considered as commodities only, or ‘things’ that were just a part of the ‘business’.

These same people would often have families and pets of their own at home that they would never think of harming in any way, shape, or form. Some people are able to distance themselves from things like that. I can’t say one way or the other in regards to Vick, but it’s possible he could share that same sentiment. Again, not saying it’s right, only what it could be.

Some folks, in certain parts of the country, genuinely feel that animal fighting is not a big deal. Could it be Vick feels the same way? Or is it a regional thing? Say maybe more so in the south? Some discussion about it possibly being regional was had on ESPN before the indictment was handed down. Thoughts?

I would venture to say that almost everyone posting on this thread believes in some form of speciesism. Humans are “better” than all other species, right? With this as the basic tenet, it is a question of what other species deserve rights as well.

The people you are referring to probably think humans are the only species than can possess human rights. There are others (like everyone posting on this thread) who believe that some species, i.e. dogs, are more valuable than others and deserve rights as well.

[/quote]

It doesn’t matter if it is species favoritism.

Dog Fighting is illegal. A crime was committed.

217

I found this interesting. PETA is offering $5,000 to anyone who provides information leading to a conviction of anybody involved in dog fighting.

I don’t even know where to or if to go anywhere with this.

218

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
itsthenickman wrote:
BLACKSMITH wrote:
Hey Mike, from what I’ve read in the past with other dog fighting cases, the persons involved didn’t show as much emotion because the fighting animals were considered as commodities only, or ‘things’ that were just a part of the ‘business’.

These same people would often have families and pets of their own at home that they would never think of harming in any way, shape, or form. Some people are able to distance themselves from things like that. I can’t say one way or the other in regards to Vick, but it’s possible he could share that same sentiment. Again, not saying it’s right, only what it could be.

Some folks, in certain parts of the country, genuinely feel that animal fighting is not a big deal. Could it be Vick feels the same way? Or is it a regional thing? Say maybe more so in the south? Some discussion about it possibly being regional was had on ESPN before the indictment was handed down. Thoughts?

I would venture to say that almost everyone posting on this thread believes in some form of speciesism. Humans are “better” than all other species, right? With this as the basic tenet, it is a question of what other species deserve rights as well.

The people you are referring to probably think humans are the only species than can possess human rights. There are others (like everyone posting on this thread) who believe that some species, i.e. dogs, are more valuable than others and deserve rights as well.

It doesn’t matter if it is species favoritism.

Dog Fighting is illegal. A crime was committed.

[/quote]

Correct, and now we have to wait and see what happens once ALL the evidence comes to light.

219

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
MikeShank wrote:
Hi Airtruth,

What is your opinion about what will happen with him if it is proven that he did more than associate with these guys? What if it is found that he had a direct hand in this and was guilty of brutally beating these dogs to death.
Will the NAACP then be compelled to condemn him more than if it was just guilt by association?

I was also surprised to see you said that he is viewed as a hero by younger kids (as I guess all sports stars are to a certain extent). What makes him a hero to black youth besides his athletic skill? I am also really surprised to hear that you think the comments of both Oprah (which I am not aware of) and Cosby have distanced the elder black community from the younger community. Can you please comment?

thanks,
Mike

It’s funny The president of the Atlanta Chapter was on hot97 this morning, although princeton might be a few cities out of range.

To be honest about the NAACP I don’t know what stance they will take if he’s convicted. I could see them just stepping away quietly and stating that all they ever asked for was a fair trial. That would have been a great question for them to ask him this morning.

Vick is a young outstanding athlete, and as you said yourself just being an athlete alone sets you as a hero in many kids minds. Couple that with the fact that he had an extremely underprivelaged childhood and still made it. This is all he had to do to set himself as a hero. It’s not right, but as many frustrated athletes have realized its the way it is.

If I come to you and tell you your father is a criminal what is the first thing your going to say? Suppose you had no father and your heroes are athletes and rappers when somebody says something bad about them how do you expect them to act?

Oprah and Bill Cosby have way too many factors distancing themselves from the underprivelaged young black community.

  1. There old. Be honest who do you think a young person is going to accept advice from more, there father? or there GrandFather?
  2. Way too much money for way too long. Making it out of poor neighborhoods in 1950’s is way different then making it out of a poor neighborhood in the 90’s.
  3. Self-Entitlement that leads to lack of respect to young people.

Number 3 is most important, because when you say something respectfully whether correct or incorrect most people will try to listen. However, Bill Cosby and Oprah both because of 1 and 2 refuse to do this and spit in the face of the young black community.

I know many young black women raising kids by themselves, most have two jobs and the jobs they have don’t really care about what they have to do to be home for their kids.
This is a direct quote from Bill Cosby.
“I’m talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was two? Where were you when he was twelve? Where were you when he was eighteen, and how come you don’t know he had a pistol?”

What does this do?

  1. These kids fathers are not going to be there crying(they weren’t there), the mothers will.
  2. Your telling this mother who had to work 2 Jobs working how many hours to bring home $24000 a year living in NY/NJ area that this is her fault and stop crying. Yes she can stay home and not work but what will you say when her and her baby are homeless? To get off her ass and work? Love doesn’t pay bills, love doesn’t buy groceries.
  3. There are some ignorant people out there, by far the majority are not. Now you the previous black hero are condemning this working class mother in the same breath as all the ignorant ass people out there. Thats as bad as all the racist screaming all blacks are idiots.
  4. Killed what little self-esteem this woman has as it hurts alot more when your grandfather tells you you ain’t shit, then when some outsider does.
  5. You just told this 18 year old kid who is making right and wrong decisions in his life that his mother wasn’t there for him, and nobody loves him. Are you going to expect him to get out of jail and know what love is to raise a kid?

This can go on and on. It all boils down to this. I don’t think their intentions are wrong, but they have old people syndrome. They think they can say whatever they want because there 70.[/quote]

I meant to say this the other day when you posted it, ‘good post’. I think this is spot on as to why there is a such a big gap of understanding and rationale between some older ‘activists’ and some of today’s youth (NAACP, Bill Cosby, Oprah) which is what we were commenting on when you posted this.

Somehow your comments got twisted into ‘people not taking responsibilty for their actions’ and turned into a purely race thing and that was not at all what you were saying. You were just pointing out a contrast in thought between two social groups. Again, good post.

220

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
Airtruth wrote:

WE MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS!

My family was poor. When I was a kid I picked fruit in the summers for money in the heat and sweat with bugs and I hated it, but we needed the money.

your FAMILY was poor? Exactly!!!

Say what you want but I would bet all of my money you take a 100 kids of any race and any gender with no family let the streets raise them, and 90% of them will have a life filled with wrong decisions.

I’d then bet double or nothing that after they turn 25 you tell them well that was the past you have to change your life now still 75% won’t be able to just switch and be the great person that you are.

I never robbed a convenience store, I never sold drugs, I never hosted a dog fight OR FINANCED ONE.

so played,

It is this type of delusional rationalization for criminal behavior that has people setting standards low for some, and excusing unexcusable behavior.

This discussion wasn’t even about why criminals do what they do(Does anybody read what I say?) This was specifically why Bill Cosby and Oprah are out of touch with the young black urban community.

And not to go in to your age but things were ALOT different when you were younger. $10,000 dollars a year while you could not live like a movie star can afford at the least rent and food enough so your Mother can come home and nurture you into a quality person.

What do you think all kids are just born evil nowadays? Too many black kids maybe? maybe black kids are just demented? Or better yet something in the water? Theres a reason why kids act the way they do, yes TV raises a lot of kids and thats because parents can not be home the way they used to.

And so now it is a race issue.

My dad was born in Watts and my mom in Detroit. They were the minority. They aren’t criminals.

And how old do you think I am! Get a grip.

Stop making excuses!

I’ve worked for the District Attorney’s office, I’ve volunteered at the family law clinic. These aren’t the noble poor that you are portraying.

They aren’t victims of society turning their backs. They aren’t just BLACK!

And you would be surprised how many of these households have both parents NOT WORKING but getting paid to stay home and raise their kids while the Middle Class gets the shaft and work two jobs to support their family and have to have their kids raised by strangers.

I don’t know where you get your statistics but they aren’t accurate. Maybe I shouldn’t use the word statistic and use your reasoned guess.

You keep making excuses for bad behavior. You do, there is no getting around that statment. They act that way because they are poor, they act that way because they were raised by tv, they act that way because daddy wasn’t home, they act that way because mama was mean to them.

Excuse, excuse, excuse. Enabling excuses. Worse, a society riding the wave of these enabling excuses and justifying their lack of moral integrity, their lack of self-determination and accountability, and a society that believes they are owed more than what they want to legally work for and that laws are only for those people who haven’t SUFFERED the way they have.
[/quote]

YOUR TELLING ME TO GET A GRIP?

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU TELL ME TO GET A GRIP?

I’ll cut and past and quote again for you

"This discussion wasn’t even about why criminals do what they do(Does anybody read what I say?) This was specifically why Bill Cosby and Oprah are out of touch with the young black urban community. "

I’ll rephrase it. Bill Cosby and Oprah do not relate to the young black urban community.

Rephrase it again, Bill Cosby does not relate to the black youth, nor does Oprah.

Rephrase it again Oprah doesn’t relate to the young Hip-Hop Community.

Better yet The Young Black Hip-Hop Community does not feel they have anything in common with Oprah or Bill Cosby.

Is this about race? Must be, since you think Me and Bill Cosby can relate to each other. What else do we have in common besides being black? Let me guess you would plan an education summit where Jesse Jackson tells a bunch of KKK teens that blacks aren’t stealing their jobs, they’re just a bunch of lazy excuse ladden teens?(That’s real smart)

Where did I make an excuse for Michael Vick again? Please state where I said he fights dogs because he was poor? Senators fight dogs. Majority of them sure aren’t poor or black.