personally i think he went down a little too far on his squat, but his deadlift used too much back
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
I don’t get what you mean by “soft”?
You never lock your hips. Squeeze your ass. You want to start with the most upright position possible. If you are soft in the hips you are basically leaning before you even start the lift.
[/quote]
Gotcha! So it comes back to the setup.
[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
Gotcha! So it comes back to the setup.
[/quote]
Yup.
[quote]Newtron54 wrote:
personally i think he went down a little too far on his squat, but his deadlift used too much back[/quote]
He didn’t even break parallel. How is that too far?
[quote]Pemdas wrote:
Newtron54 wrote:
personally i think he went down a little too far on his squat, but his deadlift used too much back
He didn’t even break parallel. How is that too far?[/quote]
Well now I know who’d I’d prefer as a judge! 
New question:
Since I obviously need more ab strength (and I think upper back too), how would using a belt impact my form?
In a way it doesn’t really matter since I won’t be getting one for a few month anyway, but would a belt assist with keeping more upright as I get into heavier weights?
I freezed the movie right at the bottom of the squat and from this angle it looks like a good squat to me as far as depth goes. Feet are pretty damn close together though.
Having long ass legs I know your pain (sometimes literally) in using more back than legs with deadlift.
[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
New question:
Since I obviously need more ab strength (and I think upper back too), how would using a belt impact my form?
In a way it doesn’t really matter since I won’t be getting one for a few month anyway, but would a belt assist with keeping more upright as I get into heavier weights? [/quote]
I imagine it’d probably help to keep you more upright.
In addition to what APW said about set up, before you start each rep, arch your upper back. Imagine picking your chest up. It’s a nice little cue I picked up. It’s especially important when repping because with each successive rep you’ll end up more and more caved over, which just results in a greater and greater lean.
And for god sake don’t take your stance out any more. You’ll end up even more bent forward. I can’t understand why anyone is recommending you do that.
[quote]Newtron54 wrote:
personally i think he went down a little too far on his squat, but his deadlift used too much back[/quote]
Please don’t give advice if you have no idea what you’re talking about.
As with all powerlifting you want to make your body as tight as possible. After your stance is set but before you go down, take a deep breath and fill your belly with air and then flex your entire core. For better information you should read some articles on how to squat.
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/learntosquat.htm
Just read all the articles you can on the big three.
[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
I freezed the movie right at the bottom of the squat … [/quote] Please don’t do that, the isometric is a killer for lactic acid build up
I tried the 315lbs twice, this was the second and if I recall correctly my feet were about 6" or so outside shoulder width. My 1st attempt (on my profile page) my feet were actually a little closer together.
Being 5’6" I have never once been told I have long legs, I feel like going to play basketball!
[quote]Hanley wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
New question:
Since I obviously need more ab strength (and I think upper back too), how would using a belt impact my form?
In a way it doesn’t really matter since I won’t be getting one for a few month anyway, but would a belt assist with keeping more upright as I get into heavier weights?
I imagine it’d probably help to keep you more upright.
In addition to what APW said about set up, before you start each rep, arch your upper back. Imagine picking your chest up. It’s a nice little cue I picked up. It’s especially important when repping because with each successive rep you’ll end up more and more caved over, which just results in a greater and greater lean.
And for god sake don’t take your stance out any more. You’ll end up even more bent forward. I can’t understand why anyone is recommending you do that.[/quote]
Widening his stance will incorporate more glute involvement, which will help prevent his hips from rising so fast, which is contributing to his falling forward.
It will also give him a sturdier base, and more of a hole to sit back into, so that his knees bend less and hips more, which will help keep the weight back.
For the record, I thought you were right at parallel. I think it is the angle that is throwing some people off.
I’m not sure I agree with the advice to raise your bar position. It may help to reinforce the notion of keeping your upper back strong, so it can be a good training tool, but you will be stronger with the low position.
[quote]tedro wrote:
Widening his stance will incorporate more glute involvement, which will help prevent his hips from rising so fast, which is contributing to his falling forward.
It will also give him a sturdier base, and more of a hole to sit back into, so that his knees bend less and hips more, which will help keep the weight back.
For the record, I thought you were right at parallel. I think it is the angle that is throwing some people off.
I’m not sure I agree with the advice to raise your bar position. It may help to reinforce the notion of keeping your upper back strong, so it can be a good training tool, but you will be stronger with the low position.[/quote]
Thanks tedro. I think I’ll play around with both, stance and bar position to see what helps and what reveals more faults.
It is tough to tell depth this way. I’ll just try to use a similar camera angle in the future to give myself a good comparison. The camera was at hip height and about ten feet away if that matters to anyone.
don’t be afraid to point your toes out and go little wider, you really look like your going to hurt yourself on squat if you just slightly mess up or go little lower. Also slightly wider helps with depth tremendously unless you have amazing balance and flexibility.
rugger you just have to experiement and see what works best for you. I must say my thoughts very closely echo tedro’s. Hanley is an experienced powerlifter too however and he has his own style. Humbly, I would guesstimate that 90% of competitive powerlifters would view your stance as too close as recommend you widen it. In the end it does not matter what tedro, hanley myself, ed coan, dave tate or anyone tells you as much as what you find out on your own.
Having said all that I still vigorously encourage you to widen the stance. I personally have a lower bar position than almost anyone I know. Critical as some have mentioned is keeping your elbows under the bar. Someone said you would struggle if you widened your stance since you had muscle weaknesses. Well the only way to improve a weak point is to attack it. Weak hips, hams, low back, abs whatever it is must be dealt with the right way and not ignored.
[quote]sapasion wrote:
rugger you just have to experiement and see what works best for you. I must say my thoughts very closely echo tedro’s. Hanley is an experienced powerlifter too however and he has his own style. Humbly, I would guesstimate that 90% of competitive powerlifters would view your stance as too close as recommend you widen it. In the end it does not matter what tedro, hanley myself, ed coan, dave tate or anyone tells you as much as what you find out on your own.
Having said all that I still vigorously encourage you to widen the stance. I personally have a lower bar position than almost anyone I know. Critical as some have mentioned is keeping your elbows under the bar. Someone said you would struggle if you widened your stance since you had muscle weaknesses. Well the only way to improve a weak point is to attack it. Weak hips, hams, low back, abs whatever it is must be dealt with the right way and not ignored.[/quote]
90% of APF lifters and guys who read eliteFTS all day but have no real training exp of their own would say go wider. Have a look at the IPF, worlds largest fed, they all squat much closer, same with the USPF/WPF, same goes for the raw feds. Check out Scott Weech’s stance http://www.rawpowerlifting.com/images/nationals/Scott%20Weech%20-%20825%20Squat.jpg Keep in mind he’s over 300lb so he has good leverages to get away with going that wide, and for my money that doesn’t look any wider than ruggerlife.
sapasion, Hanley, et al.
I appreciate the discussion here about the various uses of stances. I’ll definitely play around a bit to see what works and what doesn’t.
I was watching my videos again last night with everyones comments in mind and I noticed that I really need to work on keeping my hips down at the beginning of the deadlift. I was previously under the impression that my hips were only coming up faster as I approached my max. But on closer examination it was happening, to a lessor extent but still happening, on my lighter lifts as well.
On the squat, assuming I was hitting depth for the sake of argument, was my stop at the bottom long enough to have a lift passed or do I also need to work on my pause at the bottom? I’ll likely end up competing in the Canadian IPF affiliate since it is the most common fed around here.
Based on the feedback on this thread I’m looking forward to recording my bench in a few weeks to see what my form is like there!
There’s no need to pause your squats. The rule the lifter most lower himself until the crease at the hip is lower than the top of the knee, the lifter then must recover at will. (Ie no pause)
[quote]Hanley wrote:
There’s no need to pause your squats. The rule the lifter most lower himself until the crease at the hip is lower than the top of the knee, the lifter then must recover at will. (Ie no pause)[/quote]
Thanks, one less thing to worry about then!
[quote]tedro wrote:
Widening his stance will incorporate more glute involvement, which will help prevent his hips from rising so fast, which is contributing to his falling forward. [/quote]
What? Please explain how the glutes are incorporated more in a squat by widening the stance? Please, do not provide me a link to an article you read or quote something form Dave Tate. Also, try to limit the use of the term ‘posterior chain’ in your response. I want to know why a wider stance makes the glutes work harder.
Additionally, the lifter is not falling forward. He is leaning into the squat. They are two entirely different issues. I don’t know what video you are watching but his hips actually track pretty well on the one I watched. That’s not the issue. His set up, bar position and strength levels are.
A sturdier base? He didn’t look unstable to me. Quit suggesting fixes for things that arent’ a problem. He is going to be competing in an IPF affiliate so in addition to sitting back he is also going to have to learn how to push out his knees and sit down.
Your response here is similar to the one you gave Hanley on the other thread in that you clearly do not understand the difference in squatting styles and the fact that it is harder to get depth and set up a wide stance squat when you have to walk it out. I know of very few lifters who are able to successfully incorporate the width stance you are advocating on an IPF platform.
Again. Please explain to me this blanket statement. No articles or Tate/Wendler quotes and try not to use the term ‘posterior chain’ excessively. I want to understand what leads you to believe that across the board a lower bar position is superior to a higher one, and I am not referring to Olympic high bar style.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
What? Please explain how the glutes are incorporated more in a squat by widening the stance? Please, do not provide me a link to an article you read or quote something form Dave Tate. Also, try to limit the use of the term ‘posterior chain’ in your response. I want to know why a wider stance makes the glutes work harder.
[/quote]
As I’m sure you know, one of the major functions of the glutes are hip abduction. When we use the phrase, “spread the floor” what we really mean is activate your hip abductors. Spreading the floor is a basic technique in the squat that can help you add weight and be stronger. A wider stance makes it much easier to activate the hip abductors, which means the glutes are getting used more, and the lifter will be stronger. Don’t believe me? Get up and try to spread the floor with both a narrow stance and a wide stance? Which stance lets you “spread” it more?
Aside from this, a wider stance also puts the glutes at a more biomechanically efficient position, so you will use them more. All to a certain extent of course.
Maybe I should rephrase that. Is he falling forward? Not yet, but his hips are rising faster than his shoulders, causing his chest to cave, which will likely lead to him falling forward. Why are his hips rising fast is the question we need to answer then. It has been suggested that his abs and upper back may be weak, and I agree with this. This would cause his hips to rise faster. It is also likely that his hips and hamstrings aren’t up to par with his quads. If he wants to squat bigger weights, he is going to have to learn how to use his hips more.
Just because it is not a problem, per se, does not mean that he does not have room to improve. I also suggested that he learn to push out his knees (spread the floor) and sit down, hence why I said a wider stance will give him more of a hole to sit back into.
And what width stance am I advocating? I haven’t told anybody a certain width, I have only used the term wider. I would not suggest a super wide squat, but I think the OP definitely would benefit by going wider. How much wider he will have to determine with some trial and error.
Biomechanics. Leverage.
In the squat, the hip joint acts as the fulcrum while the back is the lever. What is the easiest way to make a lever more efficient? By moving the force closer to the fulcrum, or in our case, a lower bar position.