Vegetarian Propoganda

Nutrition
21

[quote]enrac wrote:
Uncle Gabby wrote:
usaffirefighter wrote:
Like to see a picture of the “bodybuilders” that said 10% protein was all they needed.

I’ll see if I can find a picture of me from 6 years ago. I was a vegetarian, and I ate like that, and I looked like shit. Vegetarianism is a lie.

Well, I don’t think it’s a lie, but there’s a lot of horseshit out there. You still need 2 grams per pound of body weight if you want to grow, it’ll just come from different sources (whey comes to mind). Soy is garbage, plain and simple.

Breast milk in ice cream? Really?[/quote]

It’s a lie when they say that vegetarianism is healthier than eating meat. I never met a vegetarian who wasn’t sickly and weak, including myself. I made eating right a full time job, and couldn’t gain muscle, or even maintain my bodyweight, or make it through a winter without getting sick several times.

22

[quote]Doyle wrote:
Sick Rick wrote:
Wait, they misspelled “protein” every single time?

Yup, these people don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about.

Who cares anyways? In a few years I’ll by hyooge and these people will all still be fat, stupid and weak.

No, that was probably just me, I’m a sht speller. I just think it should be spelled that way and I do it all the time if I’m not concentrating.
My bad.[/quote]

Don’t be so hard on yourself they don’t even know bodybuilder is one word :stuck_out_tongue: Yes these people don’t know what the fuck they’re taking about. You should e-mail the writer and invite them to defend themselves on here.

23

[quote]Doyle wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Aside form the fact that all those ‘protein overdose’ side effects are BS and only shown to occur in people with pre-existing medical conditions, I wouldn counter with:

Humans as a species only learned to cultivated grains and other carbohydrates a few thousand years ago. Before that, all we really had access to on a regular basis was meat and fish. Even fruit, nuts and berries were seasonal and hard to come by. If you want to try and undo millions of years of evolution by eating a surplus of carbohydrates and ignoring protein and fat, then I’ll book you a place at the diabetes clinic.

BBB

Yeah the diet was pretty messed up, the only good thing is that it was saying to restrict grains as well. Actually it pretty much said you should just eat fruit, how you get enough calories to survive from just eating fruit I do not know.
The sad thing is that people actully take some of this stuff on board. they read a heading that says “too much protein is harmful” and then cut their protein without even reaading the full article.
[/quote]

A vegetarian friend sent me T. Colin Campbell’s book The China Study, which says animal protein is really really bad for you. Looking around for second opinions, I found a pretty interesting website:

The site is by former hardcore vegans, raw-food vegans, “Natural Hygiene” followers (basically, raw-food vegan), fruitarians, etc. who eventually decided it was unhealthy and now eat at least some meat and/or dairy. Check it out if you want to talk to vegetarians. These guys are smart and articulate and were previously really committed to veganism. The huge 3-part article by Ward Nicholson,

is the best, assuming you have some time to kill. There’s a lot, including a huge reference list, about what humans really evolved to eat, which of course includes MEAT.

Doyle, that all-fruit thing you mention sounds like the fruitarian diet, which according to Nicholson is sort of an extreme “super-morally-pure” veganism, that is very unhealthy. Basically, all your teeth fall out and you get diabetes. If not, you’re cheating.

24

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
enrac wrote:
Uncle Gabby wrote:
usaffirefighter wrote:
Like to see a picture of the “bodybuilders” that said 10% protein was all they needed.

I’ll see if I can find a picture of me from 6 years ago. I was a vegetarian, and I ate like that, and I looked like shit. Vegetarianism is a lie.

Well, I don’t think it’s a lie, but there’s a lot of horseshit out there. You still need 2 grams per pound of body weight if you want to grow, it’ll just come from different sources (whey comes to mind). Soy is garbage, plain and simple.

Breast milk in ice cream? Really?

It’s a lie when they say that vegetarianism is healthier than eating meat. I never met a vegetarian who wasn’t sickly and weak, including myself. I made eating right a full time job, and couldn’t gain muscle, or even maintain my bodyweight, or make it through a winter without getting sick several times.[/quote]

I just went to my doc and got a clean bill of health, and I’m a vegetarian. IMO, if you’re going to be vegetarian (and it’s no one’s place to criticize someone who chooses to eat one way and not another), the Indian diet’s the way to go.

And no, vegetarianism is not necessarily healthier than meat eating. I used to be a lard ass 200 lbs and still vegetarian. Then I discovered the weight room, treadmill and Nancy Clark’s “Sports Nutrition”.

The holier than thou attitude’s got to go though, I wholeheartedly agree with that.

25

[quote]MarkT wrote:
Doyle wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Aside form the fact that all those ‘protein overdose’ side effects are BS and only shown to occur in people with pre-existing medical conditions, I wouldn counter with:

Humans as a species only learned to cultivated grains and other carbohydrates a few thousand years ago. Before that, all we really had access to on a regular basis was meat and fish. Even fruit, nuts and berries were seasonal and hard to come by. If you want to try and undo millions of years of evolution by eating a surplus of carbohydrates and ignoring protein and fat, then I’ll book you a place at the diabetes clinic.

BBB

Yeah the diet was pretty messed up, the only good thing is that it was saying to restrict grains as well. Actually it pretty much said you should just eat fruit, how you get enough calories to survive from just eating fruit I do not know.
The sad thing is that people actully take some of this stuff on board. they read a heading that says “too much protein is harmful” and then cut their protein without even reaading the full article.

A vegetarian friend sent me T. Colin Campbell’s book The China Study, which says animal protein is really really bad for you. Looking around for second opinions, I found a pretty interesting website:

The site is by former hardcore vegans, raw-food vegans, “Natural Hygiene” followers (basically, raw-food vegan), fruitarians, etc. who eventually decided it was unhealthy and now eat at least some meat and/or dairy. Check it out if you want to talk to vegetarians. These guys are smart and articulate and were previously really committed to veganism. The huge 3-part article by Ward Nicholson,

is the best, assuming you have some time to kill. There’s a lot, including a huge reference list, about what humans really evolved to eat, which of course includes MEAT.

Doyle, that all-fruit thing you mention sounds like the fruitarian diet, which according to Nicholson is sort of an extreme “super-morally-pure” veganism, that is very unhealthy. Basically, all your teeth fall out and you get diabetes. If not, you’re cheating.
[/quote]

Thanks alot man they look like interesting links, i’ll definately read them when i get a chance.
Yeah the mag was promoting a few different forms of veganism. Pretty heavy on raw food.

26

[quote]enrac wrote:
Uncle Gabby wrote:
enrac wrote:
Uncle Gabby wrote:
usaffirefighter wrote:
Like to see a picture of the “bodybuilders” that said 10% protein was all they needed.

I’ll see if I can find a picture of me from 6 years ago. I was a vegetarian, and I ate like that, and I looked like shit. Vegetarianism is a lie.

Well, I don’t think it’s a lie, but there’s a lot of horseshit out there. You still need 2 grams per pound of body weight if you want to grow, it’ll just come from different sources (whey comes to mind). Soy is garbage, plain and simple.

Breast milk in ice cream? Really?

It’s a lie when they say that vegetarianism is healthier than eating meat. I never met a vegetarian who wasn’t sickly and weak, including myself. I made eating right a full time job, and couldn’t gain muscle, or even maintain my bodyweight, or make it through a winter without getting sick several times.

I just went to my doc and got a clean bill of health, and I’m a vegetarian. IMO, if you’re going to be vegetarian (and it’s no one’s place to criticize someone who chooses to eat one way and not another), the Indian diet’s the way to go.

And no, vegetarianism is not necessarily healthier than meat eating. I used to be a lard ass 200 lbs and still vegetarian. Then I discovered the weight room, treadmill and Nancy Clark’s “Sports Nutrition”.

The holier than thou attitude’s got to go though, I wholeheartedly agree with that.[/quote]

Thankyou for your input, I have been to india (central eastern) and they ate ALOT of white rice.
Although chickpeas and lentils are supposed to be Indian foods and they have a good amount of protien in them and also they do eat alot of dairy.
Can you give some more details on your diet, is there a platform for the Indian diet somewhere?

27

[quote]Doyle wrote:
enrac wrote:
Uncle Gabby wrote:
enrac wrote:
Uncle Gabby wrote:
usaffirefighter wrote:
Like to see a picture of the “bodybuilders” that said 10% protein was all they needed.

I’ll see if I can find a picture of me from 6 years ago. I was a vegetarian, and I ate like that, and I looked like shit. Vegetarianism is a lie.

Well, I don’t think it’s a lie, but there’s a lot of horseshit out there. You still need 2 grams per pound of body weight if you want to grow, it’ll just come from different sources (whey comes to mind). Soy is garbage, plain and simple.

Breast milk in ice cream? Really?

It’s a lie when they say that vegetarianism is healthier than eating meat. I never met a vegetarian who wasn’t sickly and weak, including myself. I made eating right a full time job, and couldn’t gain muscle, or even maintain my bodyweight, or make it through a winter without getting sick several times.

I just went to my doc and got a clean bill of health, and I’m a vegetarian. IMO, if you’re going to be vegetarian (and it’s no one’s place to criticize someone who chooses to eat one way and not another), the Indian diet’s the way to go.

And no, vegetarianism is not necessarily healthier than meat eating. I used to be a lard ass 200 lbs and still vegetarian. Then I discovered the weight room, treadmill and Nancy Clark’s “Sports Nutrition”.

The holier than thou attitude’s got to go though, I wholeheartedly agree with that.

Thank you for your input, I have been to India (central eastern) and they ate A LOT of white rice. Although chickpeas and lentils are supposed to be Indian foods and they have a good amount of protein in them and also they do eat a lot of dairy.
Can you give some more details on your diet, is there a platform for the Indian diet somewhere?[/quote]

I don’t know if there’s a forum (I’m assuming that’s what you meant) for the Indian vegetarian diet. I avoid white rice like the plague, so for me it’s mostly:

  • whole wheat rotis

with

  • curries that have
    • lentils (‘daal masala’)
    • spinach and cheese (‘palak paneer’)
    • chick peas (‘channa masala’)
    • red beans (‘rajma’)
    • vegetables (these usually have a broth made with whole milk)

I also take whole milk (was on skim for a year, didn’t like it). Lately, I’ve been cooking lots of spinach substituting feta for paneer. Doesn’t work as well unfortunately.

For the record, I also take Metabolic Drive and eggs (for the latter, I make sure they’re unfertilized).

When I was cutting in the summer, a bad idea when you’re at 160 btw, I was at about 1800 - 2000 cals. I’ve probably doubled that now.

28

[quote]enrac wrote:
…(and it’s no one’s place to criticize someone who chooses to eat one way and not another)…
[/quote]

I’m not criticizing the way anyone chooses to eat, I’m just rather disgusted with the excessive propaganda that comes from the vegan/vegetarian front, claiming that meat causes cancer, that protien is bad for your kidneys, etc. If you choose not to eat meat for moral/ethical reasons then more power to you (as long as you’re not an arrogant prick about it), but don’t try to convert people with lies and mis-information.

Again, not accusing you of any of that, but I haven’t encountered many vegetarians who weren’t peddling some major BS.

29

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
enrac wrote:
…(and it’s no one’s place to criticize someone who chooses to eat one way and not another)…

I’m not criticizing the way anyone chooses to eat, I’m just rather disgusted with the excessive propaganda that comes from the vegan/vegetarian front, claiming that meat causes cancer, that protein is bad for your kidneys, etc. If you choose not to eat meat for moral/ethical reasons then more power to you (as long as you’re not an arrogant prick about it), but don’t try to convert people with lies and mis-information.

Again, not accusing you of any of that, but I haven’t encountered many vegetarians who weren’t peddling some major BS.[/quote]

Ah, point noted sir :slight_smile: Yes, that’s annoying. I think the arrogance is probably a front for some insecurity, like the snide comments about “functional” muscle.

30

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
enrac wrote:
…(and it’s no one’s place to criticize someone who chooses to eat one way and not another)…

I’m not criticizing the way anyone chooses to eat, I’m just rather disgusted with the excessive propaganda that comes from the vegan/vegetarian front, claiming that meat causes cancer, that protien is bad for your kidneys, etc. If you choose not to eat meat for moral/ethical reasons then more power to you (as long as you’re not an arrogant prick about it), but don’t try to convert people with lies and mis-information.

Again, not accusing you of any of that, but I haven’t encountered many vegetarians who weren’t peddling some major BS.[/quote]

You are on a nutrition forum, expect someone to criticize your diet. I won’t ever give up meat, dead animal taste so good.

31

[quote]enrac wrote:

I don’t know if there’s a forum (I’m assuming that’s what you meant) for the Indian vegetarian diet. I avoid white rice like the plague, so for me it’s mostly:

  • whole wheat rotis

with

  • curries that have
    • lentils (‘daal masala’)
    • spinach and cheese (‘palak paneer’)
    • chick peas (‘channa masala’)
    • red beans (‘rajma’)
    • vegetables (these usually have a broth made with whole milk)

I also take whole milk (was on skim for a year, didn’t like it). Lately, I’ve been cooking lots of spinach substituting feta for paneer. Doesn’t work as well unfortunately.

For the record, I also take Metabolic Drive and eggs (for the latter, I make sure they’re unfertilized).

When I was cutting in the summer, a bad idea when you’re at 160 btw, I was at about 1800 - 2000 cals. I’ve probably doubled that now.[/quote]

I think this is the most sensible option for vegetarians IMO. Supplementing protein also seems sensible for people trying to gain muscle weight and/or with high levels of physical activity.

This is getting way off topic, but do you find that these meals have a longer preperation time compared to conventional foods or a bodybuilding type diet?

Just for the record, I’m not a vegetarian or interested in becoming one, I’m just interested because I am a Personal trainer and have vegetarian freinds.

32

[quote]MarkT wrote:
Looking around for second opinions, I found a pretty interesting website:

The site is by former hardcore vegans, raw-food vegans, “Natural Hygiene” followers (basically, raw-food vegan), fruitarians, etc. who eventually decided it was unhealthy and now eat at least some meat and/or dairy. Check it out if you want to talk to vegetarians. These guys are smart and articulate and were previously really committed to veganism.
[/quote]

This site is fantastic! Thanks for posting it. I know some hippies I’m going to send over there.

33

[quote]Brant_Drake wrote:
MarkT wrote:
Looking around for second opinions, I found a pretty interesting website:

The site is by former hardcore vegans, raw-food vegans, “Natural Hygiene” followers (basically, raw-food vegan), fruitarians, etc. who eventually decided it was unhealthy and now eat at least some meat and/or dairy. Check it out if you want to talk to vegetarians. These guys are smart and articulate and were previously really committed to veganism.

This site is fantastic! Thanks for posting it. I know some hippies I’m going to send over there.

[/quote]

You’re welcome! I wonder how your hippie friends will take that. I sent that link to the friends who sent me “The China Study” (and two other vegetarian propaganda books). I was nice, thanked them sincerely for the books, mentioned this cool website with lots of relevant info… I haven’t heard from them since.

34

[quote]Doyle wrote:
enrac wrote:

I don’t know if there’s a forum (I’m assuming that’s what you meant) for the Indian vegetarian diet. I avoid white rice like the plague, so for me it’s mostly:

  • whole wheat rotis

with

  • curries that have
    • lentils (‘daal masala’)
    • spinach and cheese (‘palak paneer’)
    • chick peas (‘channa masala’)
    • red beans (‘rajma’)
    • vegetables (these usually have a broth made with whole milk)

I also take whole milk (was on skim for a year, didn’t like it). Lately, I’ve been cooking lots of spinach substituting feta for paneer. Doesn’t work as well unfortunately.

For the record, I also take Metabolic Drive and eggs (for the latter, I make sure they’re unfertilized).

When I was cutting in the summer, a bad idea when you’re at 160 btw, I was at about 1800 - 2000 cals. I’ve probably doubled that now.

I think this is the most sensible option for vegetarians IMO. Supplementing protein also seems sensible for people trying to gain muscle weight and/or with high levels of physical activity.

This is getting way off topic, but do you find that these meals have a longer preparation time compared to conventional foods or a bodybuilding type diet?

Just for the record, I’m not a vegetarian or interested in becoming one, I’m just interested because I am a Personal trainer and have vegetarian friends.

[/quote]

Hi Doyle, for me, they do take a bit more time, but you can cook for quantity. There’s shortcuts though, such as getting a can of baked beans. Luckily, there’s a couple of Indian restaurants and stores near my place, so I can always buy food.