[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
… This is a trillion dollar industry and you would be stupid to overlook the effect money and it associated greed has on our healthcare[/quote]
This.
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There is no doubt about this. However, vaccines are not money makers for pharma companies. Ask Bill Gates about this. His foundation would love to develop a vaccine to combat malaria as resistance is increasing to antimalarial drugs. There is orders of magnitude more money in average Westerners taking pills to make up for cholesterol metabolism issues due to overeating grains, shitty fats, and over-imbibing alcohol. Or pain meds, you name it.
There is very little doubt the flu vaccine is bogus, the use is a fear reaction that we must do something, not unlike the TSA’s security theater in response to 9/11. How much faith would the masses have if the experts told the truth that they don’t really know but are going to act their best.
[quote]eightohfive wrote:
Dunno what i’d do without Gardasil…[/quote]
i wouldnt vacinate my kids with gardasil.
Between May 2009 and September 2010, 16 deaths occurred after Gardasil vaccination, along with 789 reports of “serious” adverse reactions; 213 cases of permanent disability; and 25 cases of Guillain Barre Syndrome. Between September 1, 2010 and September 15, 2011, yet another 26 deaths were reported
There are more than 100 types of human papillomaviruses (HPVs) and Gardasil protects against only 4 types but 90 percent of women naturally clear HPV from their bodies within two years, at which point cervical cells return to normal
The cervical cancer death rate is very low in the United States (3 per 100,000), as this cancer is usually entirely curable when detected early enough through PAP screenings, which have reduced cervical cancer rates by 70 percent in the U.S. since PAP screens have become a routine part of womenâ??s health care
Congenital Rubella Syndrome, Diptheria, Haemophilus influenzae, Tetanus, Polio, Whooping Cough, Pneumococcal pneumonia, Smallpox: none of these even sound scary to anyone in our generation. There is a reason for that. But yeah, Im sure that HUNDREDS of people have been adversely affected by vaccination (or at least had their symptoms attributed to a vaccine). HUNDREDS
[quote]Jeffrey of Troy wrote:
OK, I’ll tell you what. I’m going to inject directly into your bloodstream - thereby bypassing all your body’s natural defenses - some virus. It might be alive, or dead (I’m not going to tell you). [/quote]
It’s injected SubQ, it’s always “dead” inert. The only time “live” dormant was given was to medical personal during the 1950’s and ,voluntarily, to their families. My grandfather was a Vet at the time and was offered. He refused due to an incomplete chain of possession. The vaccine might have been exposed to a high temp for too long.
[quote]Freaky Styley wrote:
It appears that the author of that piece is unaware that the entire goddamn point of vaccination is to take advantage of the “natural fact that when challenged by infectious agents the humoral arm of our immune system launches a successful response capable of conferring lasting immunity.”
Pro tip: alternative medicine is bullshit. If it worked, it’d be called medicine. [/quote]
[quote]eightohfive wrote:
Dunno what i’d do without Gardasil…[/quote]
i wouldnt vacinate my kids with gardasil.
Between May 2009 and September 2010, 16 deaths occurred after Gardasil vaccination, along with 789 reports of “serious” adverse reactions; 213 cases of permanent disability; and 25 cases of Guillain Barre Syndrome. Between September 1, 2010 and September 15, 2011, yet another 26 deaths were reported
There are more than 100 types of human papillomaviruses (HPVs) and Gardasil protects against only 4 types but 90 percent of women naturally clear HPV from their bodies within two years, at which point cervical cells return to normal
The cervical cancer death rate is very low in the United States (3 per 100,000), as this cancer is usually entirely curable when detected early enough through PAP screenings, which have reduced cervical cancer rates by 70 percent in the U.S. since PAP screens have become a routine part of womenâ??s health care[/quote]
HPV vaccines protect against the HPV strains that cause most cervical cancers. Creating a vaccine that protected the host from hundreds of strains of HPV would be a pointless exercise.
HPVs are a factor in the development of over 90% of cervical cancers. If girls are vaccinated against the high-risk HPV strains, then they are less likely to get cancer. I think it’s a pretty good thing if women don’t have cancer.
The problem with the pharmaceutical industry and modern medicine is it won’t look into or do studies on anything that comes directly from nature or preventative nutrition because if it is formed via nature or arises out of eating what we a supposed to naturally eat it cannot be patented and therefore no money can be made. If shatter your patella or need to get brain surgery done to remove a tumor by all means modern medicine is your only hope. The problem is the rampant use of pharmaceuticals when a completely natural method of prevention or cure could have been prescribed. This is a trillion dollar industry and you would be stupid to overlook the effect money and it associated greed has on our healthcare[/quote]
What is preventative nutrition? Is that like the health advice physicians dispense daily, such as limiting cholesterol intake and avoiding high sugar food stuffs?
Please provide an example of “a completely natural method of prevention”.
There are two things most vaccine-doubters/pharma-conspirators say:
Vaccines cause autism or ___________ (autism being the most common)
False. The gentleman who published that research article in the BMJ 20 years ago has since been stripped of his medical license and is facing legal consequences for entirely fabricating his “groundbreaking” study that “proved” vaccines cause autism. Furthermore, due to its inability to be reproduced, the study has also been struck from the record retroactively from the BMJ; something that almost never happens outright.
Well, all of these problems could just be prevented if people just practiced proper hygeine and nutrition!
Also false. Someone stated earlier “oh well 2/3 of Europe survived the plague, SEE HOW AWESOME OUR IMMUNE SYSTEM IS?” Unfortunately for this fellow, he has the figure wrong. In fact, nearly 2/3 of Europeans DIED, not lived (60%). In any event, my favorite are the folks who cite things like statins and blood pressure medications and say people should eat a healthy diet instead of taking these pills. You’re right to a certain extent, but guess what? Every time an obese person with coronary artery disease comes to the doctors office, we tell them to lose weight, eat a healthy diet, and stop smoking. NO. ONE. LISTENS. These drugs are there as our only recourse to aid a population who just does not give a shit about their health, not because the pharmaceutical industry is forcing us to prescribe them. Do you think people become 300 lbs, get COPD, and 75% stenosis of their coronary arteries overnight? No, it’s a lifetime of awful, awful lifestyle choices that they refuse to change. We have no other remedy. If you can force people to listen, god bless you.
Naturopaths are all the same. And it’s truly dangerous that because they call themselves doctors that people will perceive their claims as legitimate.
[quote]mezcal wrote:
There are two things most vaccine-doubters/pharma-conspirators say:
Vaccines cause autism or ___________ (autism being the most common)
False. The gentleman who…
[/quote]
Yeeeeah, No.
The comments that claimed Dr. Wakefield falsified data appear to be the only ones that were falsified. (assuming this is the gentlemen…)
If you listened to the ones with the most success helping these conditions, you would see that very few experts claim it “causes” autism. But, impairing gut health, and dumping more toxins into an already over loaded body, won’t help it any.
Falsified, horribly misrepresented, call it what you want, but the fact is that none of the hundreds of studies done since have shown ANY definitive link between vaccines and autism. You can believe what you want (and it seems that you will), but there are very few in the scientific community that would defend Dr. Wakefield.
Here’s a summary from a relatively recent article:
[quote]Only 1 of 9 kids said to have regressive autism clearly had it. Three had no form of autism.
Contrary to the paper’s assertion that all the kids were normal before vaccination, five had some sort of preexisting developmental problems.
Behavioral problems the paper said popped up days after vaccination didn’t actually appear for months in some kids, a fact that undercuts the causality of vaccination.[/quote]
Pro tip: alternative medicine is bullshit. If it worked, it’d be called medicine. [/quote]
x2.
If it worked, IM POSITIVE that the pharmaceutical companies would have refined it, made it into a usable dosage and would be making a profit from it. [/quote]
i wish it were true my friend.
Unfortunately pharma is a wee bit more greedy than that.
A lot of natural options are labeled “alternative”, like taking fish oil for cardiovascular health, for rheumatoid arthritis,…
Yet they make so much money on statins and expensive “biologicals” that they would never want to invest in making a great fish oil,… because a bunch of companies are already making them! They can’t put a patent on it so they can’t profit as easily!
It’s funny how a lot of studies skeptical of drug X start to be published right around the year that the patent expires, like with the recent antidepressant case.
Big pharma is known to hinder publications that show that the sponsored drugs do not work.
The one who pays the piper calls the tune.
[quote]Freaky Styley wrote:
It appears that the author of that piece is unaware that the entire goddamn point of vaccination is to take advantage of the “natural fact that when challenged by infectious agents the humoral arm of our immune system launches a successful response capable of conferring lasting immunity.”
Pro tip: alternative medicine is bullshit. If it worked, it’d be called medicine. [/quote]
[/quote]
I love that video, although I think Tim Minchin overestimates doctors.
A lot of docs are not as scientifically openminded as described.
Almost every time I start to talk about solutions that are not part of the normal treatment algorithm/procedure I get looked at funny or explained that they only look at evidence-based therapies. Then when I present them with the evidence they tend to ignore it or brush it off.
This has happened so many times now it’s not funny anymore.
I guess it’s because when a general practitioner or a family doctor in the Netherlands does something different then the “norm” i.e. the ‘standard procedure’ of the dutch family doctor association they can get punished or reprimanded by either the association or the insurance companies.
Don’t get me wrong, I think pharmaceuticals are great! Medicine rocks and is better and more advanced then at any point in history.
I just think a lot of really good views and therapies (a lot of them can be labeled “natural” like lifestyle change or things like taking natural antioxidants or reservatrol,…) are overlooked and branded as “alternative bullshit”.
For acute emergency medicine hospitals are awesome, but I’d prefer to see a different kind of doctor when it comes to chronic disease like type 2 diabetes or cardiovascular disease or just overall health.
[quote]mezcal wrote:
Falsified, horribly misrepresented, call it what you want, but the fact is that none of the hundreds of studies done since have shown ANY definitive link between vaccines and autism. [/quote]
You aware of the studies done on Vioxx???
Who do you suppose did these studies that showed no link???
Anyway, i will withdraw from this tired topic.
[quote]mezcal wrote:
Falsified, horribly misrepresented, call it what you want, but the fact is that none of the hundreds of studies done since have shown ANY definitive link between vaccines and autism. [/quote]
You aware of the studies done on Vioxx???
Who do you suppose did these studies that showed no link???
Anyway, i will withdraw from this tired topic.
[/quote]
You realize Merck VOLUNTARILY withdrew vioxx from the market, without the FDA forcing them to? That resulted in about a 2 billion dollar loss for them. Yeah all those pharma companies are soooo evil and greedy! Give me a break
[quote]Freaky Styley wrote:
It appears that the author of that piece is unaware that the entire goddamn point of vaccination is to take advantage of the “natural fact that when challenged by infectious agents the humoral arm of our immune system launches a successful response capable of conferring lasting immunity.”
Pro tip: alternative medicine is bullshit. If it worked, it’d be called medicine. [/quote]
I find this extremely refreshing. It’s nice to hear somebody else isn’t tricked by these flim-flam articles.
Click listen to listen to the podcast about vaccine ingredients. It can be read as well.
There are also tons of other episodes debunking common modern day health myths and lies.