[quote]orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
… Consequently, it appears unlikely that decriminalisation of cannabis will cause an increase in cannabis use.
…
This statement is utter bullshit. If it was legal and available I would smoke it on occasion.
It just shows how useless and/or biased so many studies and reports are.
In all studies the Netherlands are somewhere in lower half of cannabis use and lower in hard drugs use.
What you would or would not do is purely anecdotal.
[/quote]
As I said the studies are useless if they claim legalization will not increase usage.
I don’t care what they show, there are so many poorly designed and reported studies out there it makes my head hurt.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
This statement is utter bullshit. If it was legal and available I would smoke it on occasion.
It just shows how useless and/or biased so many studies and reports are.
Given the rate of use in the Netherlands, I beg to differ. How is it that they use much less than the USA?
Completely different demographics, assuming that they do use less than the US which is debateable as none of the statistics are reliable.
Everyone has their reason for lying about usage, whether you ask the user, the cops, the treatments centers etc.
[/quote]
But in this case the people of the Netherlands, who have no incentive whatsoever to lie, claim they smoke less than the Americans claim, who have every incentive to lie.
I would drive while high, but quite frankly I’m just too lazy when I’m stoned.
Mick, nobody has stated that driving while high would be safer than driving while NOT high. The issue is that driving while under the influence of Marijuana is safer than driving under the influence of Alcohol. Therefore it seems ridiculous to allow the sale of alcohol, while banning Marijuana.
You won’t see many Marijuana advocates calling for a law that allows Driving and Marijuana to be mixed.
And the name calling makes your arguments seem more amateurish than they really are.
EDIT: OK, what’s up with changes to my posts taking like 3 hours to go through?
True story: The first time I took the written test for my driver’s license when I was 16, I was STONED. I was living in West Virginia then and you had to take the test at the State Police headquarters. I just thought it would be cool to take the test in the State Police Headquarters stoned (16=stupid). After all, I figured I could take it another time if I failed. Guess what…much to my surprize, I passed.
Conducted by Institute for Human Psychopharmacology University of Limburg Abstract 2A-6211 LS Maastricht – Netherlands
Sponsoring Agency: U.S. Department of Transportation National Highway Traffic Safety Administration 400 Seventh Street, S.W. Washington, DC 20590
Abstract
Abstract: This report concerns the effects of marijuana smoking on actual driving performance. It presents the results of one pilot and three actual driving studies. The pilot study’s major purpose was to establish the THC dose current marijuana users smoke to achieve their desired “high”. From these results it was decided that the maximum THC dose for subsequent driving studies would be 300 mcg / kg (0.3 mg / kg). The first driving study was conducted on a closed section of a primary highway. After smoking marijuana delivering THC doses of 0, 100, 200, and 300 mcg / kg, subjects drove a car while maintaining a constant speed and lateral position.
This study was replicated with a new group of subjects, but now in the presence of other traffic. In addition, a car following test was executed. The third driving study compared the effects of a modest dose of THC (100 mcg / kg) and alcohol )BAC of 0.04 g %) on city driving performance. This program of research has shown that marijuana, when taken alone, produces a moderate degree of driving impairment which is related to the consumed THC dose.
The impairment manifests itself mainly in the ability to maintain a steady lateral position on the road, but its magnitude is not exceptional in comparison with changes produced by many medicinal drugs and alcohol. Drivers under the influence of marijuana retain insight in their performance and will compensate where they can, for example, by slowing down or increasing effort. As a consequence, THC’s adverse effects on driving performance appear relatively small.
Most importantly, this was included in the report: :"[i]… Marijuana’s effects on driving performance were compared to those of many other drugs. It was concluded that THC’s effects after doses up to 300 mcg / kg never exceed alcohol’s at BAC’s of 0.08 g %; and were in no way unusual compared to many medicinal drugs’. Yet THC’s effects differ qualitatively from many other drugs, especially alcohol. [b]Evidence from the present and previous studies strongly suggests that alcohol encourages risky driving whereas THC encourages greater caution, at least in experiments.
Another way THC seems to differ qualitatively from many other drugs is that the former’s users seem better able to compensate for its adverse effects while driving under the influence[/b][/i]"
Have any of you guys heard about the mexican drug cartels moving into and kidnapping people in Atlanta. I think it is seriously time to legalize all drugs to eliminate the black market and the violence associated with it. Think about it, do you think sending these drug lords/dealers to jail is hurting them? They can run their operations from behind bars. If you can’t keep drugs out of prison you sure as hell can’t keep them off the streets.
[quote]Rocky101 wrote:
Have any of you guys heard about the mexican drug cartels moving into and kidnapping people in Atlanta. I think it is seriously time to legalize all drugs to eliminate the black market and the violence associated with it. Think about it, do you think sending these drug lords/dealers to jail is hurting them? They can run their operations from behind bars. If you can’t keep drugs out of prison you sure as hell can’t keep them off the streets. [/quote]
If anything, the Government HELPS the big drug cartels by eliminating the smaller competition.
orion quit trying to argue that it’s good for you and just use the “it’s my body and I should have a right to do what I want and besides the War On Drugs is a complete failure” argument. You’ll get further.
[quote]NateOrade wrote:
orion quit trying to argue that it’s good for you and just use the “it’s my body and I should have a right to do what I want and besides the War On Drugs is a complete failure” argument. You’ll get further.[/quote]
ever argued that it was good for you?
Though I think it an be especially for cancer, aids and muscle dystrophy victims.
It sort of reminds me of the many studies done in the 80’s regarding the dangers of all fat consumption. They produced study after study from very good sources too. But in the end it was all, or at least mostly, bullshit.
I think the walk away message here is that if something doesn’t sound right to you it probably isn’t. The Netherlands can do one study per day talking about how it’s safer to drive high than to drive straight (I always chuckle when I type that). And there will be a long list of idiots (like Horion) and kids who believe it because they want very badly to think it’s true. Some of that same group actually believe that Obama won’t raise their taxes if elected…But I digress.
An intelligent thinking adult knows that when you get high or drunk it will in fact slow your reflexes, among other things. And that same thinking adult knows that he may very well need that split second reaction time (which is taken away by pot) in order to avoid someone who has run a stop sign for example.
So…let’s keep this entire “people drive safer under pot” debate on strictly theoretical terms. I don’t want any young and impressionable guys who might be reading this thread to rationalize driving while high. Seriously, it could mean your life, or someone else’s. And even if you are not harmed in any way you will be arrested if it can be shown that your driving while under the influence of a drug. That my friends is a life changer…a very bad one.
Don’t wreck your life or someone else’s simply because you allowed your better judgement to be taken away by an ass clown like Horion posting some lame study out of the most liberal country (or one of them) in the world.
That’s about it for me and this thread.
[/quote]
Again the attempt to slay a straw man no one ever built but you. You can argue with the voices in your head all day long but after you are done could you face reality?
[quote]orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
This statement is utter bullshit. If it was legal and available I would smoke it on occasion.
It just shows how useless and/or biased so many studies and reports are.
Given the rate of use in the Netherlands, I beg to differ. How is it that they use much less than the USA?
Completely different demographics, assuming that they do use less than the US which is debateable as none of the statistics are reliable.
Everyone has their reason for lying about usage, whether you ask the user, the cops, the treatments centers etc.
But in this case the people of the Netherlands, who have no incentive whatsoever to lie, claim they smoke less than the Americans claim, who have every incentive to lie.
[/quote]
As I said, completely different demographics. And both countries have every incentive to lie. Some will claim they ar eusers when they ar enot, some will deny use, police will claim drug problems where none exist…
[quote]NateOrade wrote:
orion quit trying to argue that it’s good for you and just use the “it’s my body and I should have a right to do what I want and besides the War On Drugs is a complete failure” argument. You’ll get further.[/quote]
Plus, I never claimed what Mick28 constantly claims I did.
He is either so dense as to have his very own event horizon, or he has misrepresented my position from his first post on because he knows he cannot back up the ill-informed, stupid shit he wrote.
Whether that makes and idiot or a liar is up to you, I am not sure myself.
[quote]NateOrade wrote:
orion quit trying to argue that it’s good for you and just use the “it’s my body and I should have a right to do what I want and besides the War On Drugs is a complete failure” argument. You’ll get further.[/quote]