Utah Passes Amnesty

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
Ok that makes sense, but what about public schools and what not? Wouldn’t a large population increase, at the very least, cause big problems to public programs?
[/quote]

Yep, and that is why I am against public programs – especially the useless American education system.

But let’s for argument sake assume that those people that do come here are actually supporting the system because they pay consumption taxes and they rent homes where their landlords pay estate taxes to support the schools, etc. Does it matter if they are not paying federal income taxes since most welfare funding is taxed at a local level? I don’t think so.

There is hardly any federal level welfare – it’s mostly used as blackmail money to keep the states in line with the federal government’s wishes – e.g., the federal highway system.[/quote]

So are you a true Libertarian? [/quote]

Lift is right.

There are hardly any Federal welfare programs available. We have Medi-Cal and Cal-works here, which are welfare and some statewide health care programs, but that’s it. I know that our state has asked for a bailout from the Feds, to which they said no. There is no efficiency to any degree with these programs at all, it all just gets swallowed into the black hole of government waste.

Hilarious story about the highway system, well it’s both bitter sweet. How many people have seen it take fucking years to get a road repaired, repaved, or improved in their city or state? I know here in LA, it takes fucking years. Well in Japan, yes nuclear-ridden, glowing the dark JAPAN, they have fixed roads within 6 days of the tsunami. Un-fucking-believable. I bet a union wasn’t behind the repair.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/24/japanese-repair-quake-ravaged-road-in-just-six-days/[/quote]

VA roads are actually pretty good because its a not a really highly populated state and we don’t generally get too extreme of weather, but man if something goes wrong it takes forever to fix, and not just that, but there are always like ten workers standing around chewing the fat while two work.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/03/24/census.hispanics/?hpt=C1

I know its not totally irrelevant but I thought it was interesting none the less.

Damn thats alot. The numbers have definitely climbed over the years.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
These people also send a good portion of their money back to their home country, which takes away from recycling it back into our economy.

[/quote]

Oh please.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
These people also send a good portion of their money back to their home country, which takes away from recycling it back into our economy.

[/quote]

Oh please.

[/quote]

Smell what you’re shoveling Onion…

It is estimated that worldwide remittances amount to more than $126 billion.

Remittances have become a considerable force in the economy of many countries. Among the countries that receive the most in remittances are Mexico, the Philippines and India. Last year Mexico received more than $17 billion in remittances. The amount of remittances in Mexico exceeds the amount of foreign direct investment in the country. This is not surprising given that a significant portion of Hispanics in the United States are of Mexican descent. Other Latin American countries like El Salvador are popular destinations for remittances. In 2005 approximately $2.5 billion was sent to El Salvador. The amount represented more than 13% of El Salvadora’s GDP, or gross domestic product. It is estimated that Latin Americans residing in the United States send $30 billion dollars to their native countries.

Max, if you are against immigrants sending cash home to help out their families then you should also be against trade with any other nation because it is precisely the same thing. The dollars are exchanged for the relevant currency which then must be exchanged for dollar denominated goods. In the end it has to come back to the US in some way or an other.

Lift,

It doesn’t help us if the money sent to other countries isn’t spent here when it could be spent here. If that money were recycled back into our economy, (people paying rent, food, gas, etc), it would boost our own economy than help a foreign countries economy. It’s domestic outsourcing.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
These people also send a good portion of their money back to their home country, which takes away from recycling it back into our economy.

[/quote]

Oh please.

[/quote]

Smell what you’re shoveling Onion…

It is estimated that worldwide remittances amount to more than $126 billion.

Remittances have become a considerable force in the economy of many countries. Among the countries that receive the most in remittances are Mexico, the Philippines and India. Last year Mexico received more than $17 billion in remittances. The amount of remittances in Mexico exceeds the amount of foreign direct investment in the country. This is not surprising given that a significant portion of Hispanics in the United States are of Mexican descent. Other Latin American countries like El Salvador are popular destinations for remittances. In 2005 approximately $2.5 billion was sent to El Salvador. The amount represented more than 13% of El Salvadora’s GDP, or gross domestic product. It is estimated that Latin Americans residing in the United States send $30 billion dollars to their native countries. [/quote]

And if those dollars no longer circulate in the US, your dollar becomes worth more, not less, i.e. the same resources are spent in the US just by real Americans.

Why do you hate real Americans?

Onion,

If real Americans did those jobs, that money would circulate in the US, and be spent here rather than in another country. We would also be saving money from not dealing with the massive costs associated with illegal immigration.

Why do you hate intelligence?

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

I doubt that’s the case in the “reddest” and most Republican State in the Union.

Mufasa[/quote]

That “reddest” state gives illegal aliens drivers licenses, in state tuition, and now a form of residency. Not as red as people thought. [/quote]

This makes me absolutely sick to my stomach…believe me there is an uproar over this bill. The ONLY reason it passed was the direct intervention of the LDS church to the state Reps. it controls.

What the church failed to realize is that 75% of the people here favored a law even more strict than the AZ law. Utah’s congressional representatives have vowed to kill any Federal waver, and the Gov. Herbert has been backpedaling as fast as he can over this one.

Unbelievably bad miscalculation by the state legislature.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Lift,

It doesn’t help us if the money sent to other countries isn’t spent here when it could be spent here. If that money were recycled back into our economy, (people paying rent, food, gas, etc), it would boost our own economy than help a foreign countries economy. It’s domestic outsourcing. [/quote]

How can dollars be spent anywhere else but here?

You understand how trade works, right?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Lift,

It doesn’t help us if the money sent to other countries isn’t spent here when it could be spent here. If that money were recycled back into our economy, (people paying rent, food, gas, etc), it would boost our own economy than help a foreign countries economy. It’s domestic outsourcing. [/quote]

How can dollars be spent anywhere else but here?

You understand how trade works, right?[/quote]

Mexicans wire money home, it is converted into pesos and spent in Mexico. You understand that is what he is saying right?

Money that is used to prop up Mexican businesses instead of being spent in America where it is earned.

Does not seem that difficult to follow Lift.

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Lift,

It doesn’t help us if the money sent to other countries isn’t spent here when it could be spent here. If that money were recycled back into our economy, (people paying rent, food, gas, etc), it would boost our own economy than help a foreign countries economy. It’s domestic outsourcing. [/quote]

How can dollars be spent anywhere else but here?

You understand how trade works, right?[/quote]

Mexicans wire money home, it is converted into pesos and spent in Mexico. You understand that is what he is saying right?

Money that is used to prop up Mexican businesses instead of being spent in America where it is earned.

Does not seem that difficult to follow Lift.
[/quote]

I understand completely what he is saying and he is confused that it is a bad thing, as are you.

Those dollars do not disappear out of existence just because they are converted to Pesos. They either have to return to the US or be spent on dollar denominated goods. Even if they are not spent here in the US right away and are spent on dollar denominated goods overseas they still eventually must return to the US.

Orion explains quite succinctly why having dollars go overseas is a good thing. It make the remaining dollars here more valuable.

I have to disagree Lift,

We already have so much being imported from other countries, and we are seeing jobs exported out of the US fast as fuck. I see what you and Orion are getting at, but I believe that it would be in our best interest to keep dollars circulating within the US. It adds to jobs and tax revenue.

Utah Lama - I do hope you guys kill that bill, otherwise you will fall victim to what has happened here in Cali. Once they (illegal aliens) get a foothold, they are a bitch to get rid of.

Max, you are confused. If dollars get sent overseas it means we are exporting goods because only goods in the US can be bought with dollars.

Pretend some of these immigrants were not sending actual money but rather the goods they created instead. Would you think sending shoes overseas, for example, is bad for this country’s economy?

Lift, we don’t make SHIT here anymore. We don’t make ANYTHING here. When is the last time you saw something that said “Made in the USA”? So much has been outsourced that it’s either made in China, India, Taiwan, Mexico, Vietnam, Bangladesh, etc.

I know what you’re saying, but I just don’t see much of anything made in America anymore.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Lift, we don’t make SHIT here anymore. We don’t make ANYTHING here. When is the last time you saw something that said “Made in the USA”? So much has been outsourced that it’s either made in China, India, Taiwan, Mexico, Vietnam, Bangladesh, etc.

I know what you’re saying, but I just don’t see much of anything made in America anymore. [/quote]

Well then your point is moot, because they could not spend it on American stuff anyway.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Lift, we don’t make SHIT here anymore. We don’t make ANYTHING here. When is the last time you saw something that said “Made in the USA”? So much has been outsourced that it’s either made in China, India, Taiwan, Mexico, Vietnam, Bangladesh, etc.

I know what you’re saying, but I just don’t see much of anything made in America anymore. [/quote]

Well then your point is moot, because they could not spend it on American stuff anyway.

[/quote]

If it was made in America, at least there would be a choice.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Lift, we don’t make SHIT here anymore. We don’t make ANYTHING here. When is the last time you saw something that said “Made in the USA”? So much has been outsourced that it’s either made in China, India, Taiwan, Mexico, Vietnam, Bangladesh, etc.

I know what you’re saying, but I just don’t see much of anything made in America anymore. [/quote]

Well then your point is moot, because they could not spend it on American stuff anyway.

[/quote]

If it was made in America, at least there would be a choice. [/quote]

Ys, but since it isnt…

Is this the drawback to Capitalism?

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Is this the drawback to Capitalism?[/quote]

How could you call it a drawback if hundreds of millions of Chinese and Indians find work at a relatively minor cost to Americans?

Also, capitalism is hardly responsible for labor regulations, financial and environmental regulations, or pay roll/ corporate/ income taxes…