Users Cycles Without Test As a Base

Pharma
1 
           I thought an interesting topic would be to see what different cycles have been run by some of the more experienced guys here that didn't include test, and to talk about the reasons for them, and how well they went, pros, and cons. While this certainly isn't a popular idea, I think in certain cases it would be worth having a little more knowledge of the best possible scenarios available, if it was necessary to run a cycle w/out test.

I’m extra sensitive to test sides myself and while I’m not so sensitive as to not be able to use it, I’m sure there might be some who are, or might be curious to know if they had to, what would work the best for them.

                 ToneBone
2

Good idea Tone. I will not be able to contribute much to this thread however, as I run test with everything. I still feel that if one can run it (without heavy sides) they should run it with every cycle.

But at the same time I have heard many people mentioning cycles that contain no test, and they appear to like the way it turned out. The big one that some of the “bros” at my gym talk about is deca/dbol. But I’m sure there will be some interesting posts and conversations to come.

3

[quote]2thepain wrote:
Good idea Tone. I will not be able to contribute much to this thread however, as I run test with everything. I still feel that if one can run it (without heavy sides) they should run it with every cycle.

But at the same time I have heard many people mentioning cycles that contain no test, and they appear to like the way it turned out. The big one that some of the “bros” at my gym talk about is deca/dbol. But I’m sure there will be some interesting posts and conversations to come.[/quote]

           Thanks 2.

I agree that it certainly should be there if it’s tolerable in most cases. Again like you said though, there are guys out there running cycles test/less, with good gains and while they might be better with the test, it seems possible to go either way and still reap in some solid gains in each case.

            Thanks for your example, and I hope we can get some interesting chatter out of this for everyone to contemplate. I can think of several interesting ideas, but will wait to see what some of the guys have already tried first before putting out ideas of my own. Nothing like real world experience to make a point about a particular cycle.

The first thing off the bat that would “take a hit” I suppose would be libido issues. Other than that, there are other “dry” compounds, and “wet” ones that in combination could keep from a cycle drying someone out too much.

       All thoughts welcome of course guys.

                    ToneBone
4

You don’t have to use test for every cycle, and it’s not a MUST like all the internet doctors are tellin you.

Yes, it is the most potent mass gainer I have personally used, but you don’t keep much either because it is highly suppressive. but- i only used nolva, HCG might have helped with gains.

Another reason why you dont have to use test is that simply sometimes you want to increase the anabolic effect without increasing the androgenic effect (something u cant do with test) so u need to select other compounds with different anabolic\andro ratios.

However if you run something like this without test:

100mg Dbol
Deca\Tren

say goodbye to your dick.

So if you want to cycle without test:

  1. Keep the doses lower than normal to avoid sexual dysfucntion
  2. dont use 19 nors

Examples:

Tbol+Winny is nice, 25mg of each ED.
Var+Dbol (40mg+20mg)
Mast+Winny
var alone
winny alone
dbol alone 35-50mg ED

You get the picture.

5

Well what about the “ultimate oral cycle” thread or something along the same lines we had a while back? That might have some answers.

I had a buddy use anadrol+winstrol in a 3 weeks one, 2 weeks off, 3 weeks on, 4 weeks off, weeks on cycle this past fall. He said he loved what it did to him strength wise. Claims to have been able to increase the weight every single workout while doing TBT 3 times a week plus plyometrics on thursday and saturday. In addition to that, he gained and maintained somewhere in the area of around 15 pounds altogether. However, towards the end he claimed to have “just felt like shit in general.” No doubt from suppression and lack of an ancillary drug… His PCT involved 4 weeks of nolva at 40 40 20 20.

Sounds like somewhat of a success story to me.

World

6

i posted awhile back on the possible merits of doing t-bol and equipoise as a stack.I was thinking of the possibility of decent gains with minimal sides.no one seamed to interested in the idea although johnny blaze thought it may have had some potential.anyone ever run these two items without test as a cycle?

Im reading that using eq alone would likely supress libido;perhaps the addition of t-bol ould counter this?personally im acne prone and have gyno that never dispersed post puberty,so i am on the cautious side with the usage of test.

7

For my first three shows I ran winny 50mg eod, anavar 25mg ed, and clen. this cycle always worked great for me ( I took first in the novice and open at my first show). With proper diet and training you can even put on a little quality muscle.

8

[quote]mbaina wrote:
For my first three shows I ran winny 50mg eod, anavar 25mg ed, and clen. this cycle always worked great for me ( I took first in the novice and open at my first show). With proper diet and training you can even put on a little quality muscle.[/quote]

         Thanks mbaina.

Guys this is the kind of posting I’m looking for in this thread. As I stated earlier, I have plenty of ideas and cycles I myself have run w/out test already, and don’t want “ideas” per say, but rather real world users personal experience with a cycle not containing test. Please keep the “try this” and “try that” out of the thread. Just post if you did a cycle that was w/out test, and mainly injectables, as orals are all w/out test and I’ve done plenty of them.

         Thanks for paying attention to this.

                   ToneBone
9

Good thread topic Tone

I have opt’d for a var only cycle soon and will be posting the log.

Before the rants and flames poor in. Here are the reasons.

1 Health issues. see thread http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1923432

2 Low key under the radar use

3 Allows for 2on/3off approach

4 Little to no sides in dosages of 40-60 per day.

I have been side effect free from my health issue for more then 3 to 4 weeks. So status looks to be in the normal range. I will know more on my next blood test next week. I already have what I need to get started. Just need to get a green light.

10

I’ve got some info I’ll send you later, don’t want to post it here. How about right after you send me those pics, eh? I’m still waiting!

11

Sometimes I take orals for 10-14 days when I get sick of injecting but want an extra ‘boost’. I know, I know, not that interesting, but I get decent enough results.

12

An alternative is to use “a small base of Test” at 200-250mg range bseides you other gear. You can have the libido boost etc., with almost no sides to speak of from the Test itself.

But I’m sure it’s not mandatory at all to use some. Most AAS have been designed to be better than Test in regards to results or side effetcs. Not sure if they succeeded but that was the idea.

I think Bill Roberts designed some Test free cycle IIRC.

13 
      Thanks guys,

I’ve done quite a few oral only cycles and combos, and my own favorite is drol/win for hypertrophy, strength, low sides. I was one of the first I believe to try the “Anastrol 75”, at least on this forum, and it worked great from the start. I logged several detailed accounts of the cycles quite some time back, some of you may remember. Again following the 2 on, 2 off, back to back twice. Kept a good 85%-90% of the gains. I had kept my carbs very low AD style, and I think that helped to make the gains less bloated and more keepable afterwards. But anyway, I already wrote a shit ton about those before.

          I'm really more interested in injectable cycles to tell you the truth. The oral route is the easiest non-test way to go, and there are tons of threads on oral only cycles, despite most getting flamed before etc. So for that reason I'm more interested in the road less traveled with injecs only.

               So, who's got the cycle(s), under their belt already and wants to share how it went?

                  ToneBone
14

[quote]SwD wrote:
An alternative is to use “a small base of Test” at 200-250mg range bseides you other gear. You can have the libido boost etc., with almost no sides to speak of from the Test itself.

But I’m sure it’s not mandatory at all to use some. Most AAS have been designed to be better than Test in regards to results or side effetcs. Not sure if they succeeded but that was the idea.

I think Bill Roberts designed some Test free cycle IIRC.

[/quote]

        Thanks SwD, I assume you tried that, even if you didn't that's a good one to post about, so thanks. Keeping the test way down to that range would indeed accomplish some benefit with zero sides I imagine. I do remember some of Bill's articles on this too, thanks.

             Still though, looking for cycles already done for the most part. I'm just trying to keep it that way to make this thread more comprehensive and to the point guys. I do appreciate the comments and "ideas", but with all the clutter on most of the threads now a days, I just wanted to create a concise and specific thread about different guys experiences and cycles used only.

               I do appreciate the comments so far though, just trying to weed out an over abundance of the back and forth, unless cycles already done are the topic.

    this post in particular was appreciated though.

                   ToneBone
15

[quote]dirtbag wrote:
Good thread topic Tone

I have opt’d for a var only cycle soon and will be posting the log.

Before the rants and flames poor in. Here are the reasons.

1 Health issues. see thread http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1923432

2 Low key under the radar use

3 Allows for 2on/3off approach

4 Little to no sides in dosages of 40-60 per day.

I have been side effect free from my health issue for more then 3 to 4 weeks. So status looks to be in the normal range. I will know more on my next blood test next week. I already have what I need to get started. Just need to get a green light.[/quote]

Hey Dirt,
What’s up man? You know, I have always been positive about the oral only routes, and spent a good deal of time going that route with success before getting the balls to have a go at injecs. They still work, and you can make really good gains, COMPARED to over the counter shit, but it’s true that in no way can they compare to the size and strength gains you get from injecs. And you do have to watch out for length of cycle and sides still, though they’re easily manageable if you’re not an idiot, ha.,ha…

         I was in that mode, and after this last little run went so well, now I'm after the lower end dosed injecs, as they seem more up to my speed now. Anyway, good for you, and I wish you success with this planned cycle of yours. 

        Oh, and I said none of the orals could compare with injecs for size and strength, well, with two exceptions,(to a certain extent), being, my favorite drol/win, and some like dbol/var, but for my money after trying both, there was no comparison between the quality of gains from drol/win to the other. With the dbol I got the usual bloat, and strength increase and then it didn't seem to continue quite as solid as my favorite did. But everyone's different and some prefer the dbol route, and in fact report great gains from it. Just not for me.



                  ToneBone
16

I’ve actually always wanted to co an injectable primo-only cycle.

17

First cycle (presumably before I “knew better”) was 400mg Deca/wk and 100 proviron daily, second was 400mg deca, 30mg dbol daily and 100mg proviron. I loved 'em both no dysfunction, good strength and quality, lean muscle gains.

19

[quote]Diana Bolann wrote:
I’ve actually always wanted to co an injectable primo-only cycle. [/quote]

      Yeah I agree, it's one hell of a sweet compound, but for the reasons Bushy mentioned, not as easy to actually come to fruition unfortunately.
20 
          Just to clarify again guys,

I don’t plan on trying to go this route,(no test), but just thought it would bring some interesting and not as often heard cycles to light, and provide a bit of clarity on a subject not frequently discussed.

            I realize the benefits of using even a small amount of test are invaluable for the most part in a design, but still am intrigued by the possibilities and what other people have tried injec wise over the years.

            Thanks, good stuff so far.

                  ToneBone