[quote]hedo wrote:
Soldiers adapted.
[/quote]
Hedo, I’m gonna quit communicating with you now. Part of the adaptation you mention is that a lot of them are now amputees. You’re rabid, dude. Actually, I suppose you’re just in denial. Either way, there’s not much point.
From this morning’s Washington Post (that hotbed of liberals)
So I guess that’s all settled now. We’re not winning.
First of all, GREETINGS!!!
Since the libs decided it was a good idea to crash my Winning in Iraq thread, I thought I’d return the favor.
Hedo,
Don’t you find it despicable that the Cheerleaders for American Defeat direct their venom against the Administration instead of the human scum that lay IED’s, snipe, purposefully kill children, decapitate, and suicide bomb peaceful gatherings?
I wonder why that is?
It would be nice to see Americans decrying barbarism against Americans.
Second, would you be in favor of regional bases? Heavy equipment for precision strikes if asked by the Iraqis?
Remove the guys from the day to day street warfare?
I am of the opinion that, much like our Civil War, some of this bloodshed is unavoidable.
I think the cultural and religious divide is so great that, unfortunately, we can’t stop it.
I’m aware that George has pledged to stop it. However, I’m not sure we can snuff it out completely.
I’d be curious to hear your suggestions.
JeffR
[quote]JeffR wrote:
Don’t you find it despicable that the Cheerleaders for American Defeat direct their venom against the Administration instead of the human scum that lay IED’s, snipe, purposefully kill children, decapitate, and suicide bomb peaceful gatherings?[/quote]
Is that what came out of Cheney’s energy task force? Venom?
[quote]JeffR wrote:
It would be nice to see Americans decrying barbarism against Americans.[/quote]
You mean, it’s okay if they kill us, but not if they do it barbarously? Or we should decry their killing us at all, as if we were innocent tourists roaming the streets of their cities with our cameras?
Kurdistan is in a relatively stable situation, if the problem of Kirkuk can be negotiated. We should do what we can to make sure that part of Iraq is protected from its stronger neighbors, and from the civil war to the south, to the extent they want our presence there.
As for the rest of Iraq, we should get out. Permanent bases, the whole thing. Wait for their civil war to end, and then offer assistance.
[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Don’t you find it despicable that the Cheerleaders for American Defeat direct their venom against the Administration instead of the human scum that lay IED’s, snipe, purposefully kill children, decapitate, and suicide bomb peaceful gatherings?
Is that what came out of Cheney’s energy task force? Venom?[/quote]
endgamer,
Haven’t had the pleasure of discussing issues with you before.
I don’t want to put words into your mouth. However, you seem to be insuinating that the War in Iraq was a direct result of the energy task force.
Is that what you believe?
Please be clear.
Thanks,
JeffR
[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
JeffR wrote:
It would be nice to see Americans decrying barbarism against Americans.
You mean, it’s okay if they kill us, but not if they do it barbarously? Or we should decry their killing us at all, as if we were innocent tourists roaming the streets of their cities with our cameras?[/quote]
You’ve given me a direct view into your heart with that last paragraph.
That you have to ask whether we should be outraged, shows exactly who you are.
Let me show you how it’s done: When in War, the scum who kill Americans should be rooted out and destroyed. I smile when these dirtballs are killed and captured.
Let me ask this: Do the American soldiers deserve IED’s? Do they have it “coming to them?”
[quote]Kurdistan is in a relatively stable situation, if the problem of Kirkuk can be negotiated. We should do what we can to make sure that part of Iraq is protected from its stronger neighbors, and from the civil war to the south, to the extent they want our presence there.
As for the rest of Iraq, we should get out. Permanent bases, the whole thing. Wait for their civil war to end, and then offer assistance.[/quote]
That sounds wonderful!!! Unfortunately, Iraq has some pretty nasty neighbors. In fact, they are intimately involved in the insurrection.
Do you suppose an aggressive neighbor might take advantage of our withdrawal?
That’s the complicated part about most international problems, there is cause and effect.
Whether you think the war was launched to beat your boy kerry/enrich halliburton/or to appease the martians, that particular issue is now moot.
The Americans are there and it has to be decided where to go from here.
JeffR
[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
hedo wrote:
Soldiers adapted.
Hedo, I’m gonna quit communicating with you now. Part of the adaptation you mention is that a lot of them are now amputees. You’re rabid, dude. Actually, I suppose you’re just in denial. Either way, there’s not much point.[/quote]
Your absolutely correct. Trying to school a zealot is foolish…case in point YOU.
By the way the casualty rates are extremely low in this war. You failed to mention that.
Please don’t speak about the adaptation a soldier is able to make in such an insulting and childish manner. Men know what they signed up for. Unless you’ve done some time in the military don’t insult the sacrafice of your betters to score points in a mindless internet debate. It’s petty.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
First of all, GREETINGS!!!
Since the libs decided it was a good idea to crash my Winning in Iraq thread, I thought I’d return the favor.
Hedo,
Don’t you find it despicable that the Cheerleaders for American Defeat direct their venom against the Administration instead of the human scum that lay IED’s, snipe, purposefully kill children, decapitate, and suicide bomb peaceful gatherings?
I wonder why that is?
It would be nice to see Americans decrying barbarism against Americans.
Second, would you be in favor of regional bases? Heavy equipment for precision strikes if asked by the Iraqis?
Remove the guys from the day to day street warfare?
I am of the opinion that, much like our Civil War, some of this bloodshed is unavoidable.
I think the cultural and religious divide is so great that, unfortunately, we can’t stop it.
I’m aware that George has pledged to stop it. However, I’m not sure we can snuff it out completely.
I’d be curious to hear your suggestions.
JeffR [/quote]
Jeff
I think we made mistakes. It happens in every war. However the enemy rarely has had as much support in the US during previous wars. It’s different now. We may not have the will to prevail which is unfortunate because a large percentage of the country does.
A vast conspiracy driven by Big Oil…proposterous. Yet it gets play.
I would have prosecuted this war differently. Much more harshly. More of a WW2 drive from Normandy then the run we made. At the time I didn’t see it this way but that’s what should be done. Loosen the rules of engagement and let local commanders decide how to run their area. That way locals in rural areas don’t get penalized because of the Baghdad idiots.
At this point lock the Baghdad down. Full time curfew in the city and Anbar. Privledges given for good behavior by the population not bad. After a few weeks they’ll turn in the insurgents.
Regional bases. MAybe. I’d pick a winner and back them. Right now it looks like the Kurds.
[quote]endgamer711 wrote:
hedo wrote:
An M-1 is a rather heavily armored piece of equipment if I recall.
They don’t see much use in central Baghdad.[/quote]
Why do you say that? You’d be suprised how effective they were and continue to be in a modern city with wide roads.
Guess how many have been knocked out by the enemy?
Want wheels…how about a stryker?
[quote]JeffR wrote:
That sounds wonderful!!! Unfortunately, Iraq has some pretty nasty neighbors. In fact, they are intimately involved in the insurrection.
[/quote]
Kurdistan is in the neighborhood. So is the Persian Gulf. Our presence there should give the neighbors pause. The Kurds would be supportive. Down south, the more we try to intervene, the more inflamed the situation.
I gather neither the Joint Chiefs of Staff nor the upper echelon commanders on the ground are particularly thrilled with the proposal to put more troops in place. Why do you suppose that is?
Good luck with those Martians of yours.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
Is that what you believe?
[/quote]
Not quite. What I believe is that Saddam put a near term date on the invasion and made it a certainty when he started up oil negotiations with everybody except the US nationals.
I think Saddam did that in order to give other nations a reason to resist American proposals in the UN. That part worked, but the plan backfired. 9/11 happened, and Bushco saw its chance to sell a nice little war and took it.
I believe those oil negotiations, and the evidence from the Cheney energy task foce, explains why there was such a rush to war in Iraq, why the administration had the idea to invade Iraq even before 9/11. All the other reasons the administration offered for being in such a big hurry, we now see, were bogus, in fact fraudulent.
I also believe that a desire to control Iraqi oil explains why Bush’s consistent picture has been that we would be a military presence in Iraq approximately forever.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
You’ve given me a direct view into your heart with that last paragraph.
[/quote]
I’m just trying to figure out what bee is in your bonnet. Are you down on them because they’re fighting us, or because they fight dirty? What the hell is the difference between an IED and a landmine?
Since this is a war, you were expecting a fight, right? If you get outraged, does that help you in a fight? No.
Thousands of Americans dead, tens of thousands turned into amputees, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead, countless wounded, most helpless innocents. I surely feel sorrowful, but my outrage I’m reserving for the authors of this mess.
Okay this is what I heard about what will happen after Iraq.
We’re pretty deep in debt right now so after we clean up this mess in Iraq we won’t be able to start another war unless we pay up. So this is going to give Iran and North Korea time to build their nukes while Americans are being heavily taxed for the next decade.
But if we do go to war with North Korea and Iran and get too deep in debt countries that hold war bonds like China will switch to another currency and American money will become worthless and our standard of living will drop dramatically.
And also we won’t be able to afford our military budget of 350 billion and other countries might catch up to us in military strength.
Thats just what I heard from people around me so I could be wrong.
[quote]blck3jack wrote:
People think Iraw is so complicated and how are we going to win. The answer is not as complex as imagined. First off the Iraqis are not fighting to win the war, they are fighting to make us leave. Better known as a War of Attrition, the same war we fought in vietnam and the same war we fought in the American Revoution except on the other end. The following are the steps to win in Iraq, these will seem harsh to an average person, but it is what we need to do to win. And no this is not a nuke Iraq post.
-
Embargo all supplies coming into the country
-
Place all civilians in prison camps. Release civilians at day to do work. If anyone in their family does not return shoot them on site.
-
Anyone captured fighting will be placed in prison camps.
-
Do not hesitate to kill civilians, it weakens morale and they do not wear uniforms anyway.
These are the steps to win in Iraw if anyone disagrees with me, [b]you have all of history that oposes you.[:b]
[/quote]
I agree. That’s how the nazis won.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
First of all, GREETINGS!!!
Since the libs decided it was a good idea to crash my Winning in Iraq thread, I thought I’d return the favor.
Hedo,
Don’t you find it despicable that the Cheerleaders for American Defeat direct their venom against the Administration instead of the human scum that lay IED’s, snipe, purposefully kill children, decapitate, and suicide bomb peaceful gatherings?
I wonder why that is?
It would be nice to see Americans decrying barbarism against Americans.
Second, would you be in favor of regional bases? Heavy equipment for precision strikes if asked by the Iraqis?
Remove the guys from the day to day street warfare?
I am of the opinion that, much like our Civil War, some of this bloodshed is unavoidable.
I think the cultural and religious divide is so great that, unfortunately, we can’t stop it.
I’m aware that George has pledged to stop it. However, I’m not sure we can snuff it out completely.
I’d be curious to hear your suggestions.
JeffR [/quote]
Wait a minute. Am I reading this correctly? Did you actually expect the ennemy to help you?
And now you’re upset because they don’t.
And you’re upset because we’re not upset because they don’t?
You’re missing a small detail he.
YOU WERE WARNED THAT THIS WOULD HAPPEN.
People actually warned you that the whole country would destabilise. And they were dismissed.
Now that events proove them right, you’re still upset? Not with the people who were wrong, but with the guys who were right?
How’s the weather on your planet?
[quote]JeffR wrote:
…
That’s the complicated part about most international problems, there is cause and effect.
effR0
[/quote]
Surely this is something your learned recently.
[quote]40yarddash wrote:
American money will become worthless and our standard of living will drop dramatically.
[/quote]
America is on course to becoming a third world country within fifty years.
Man I hope I’m wrong about this.