US Citizen Killed on Flotilla

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Oh, and here is Craig Murray, who is a former British Ambassador and also a former Head of the Maritime Section of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office:

There are therefore two clear legal possibilities.

Possibility one is that the Israeli commandos were acting on behalf of the government of Israel in killing the activists on the ships. In that case Israel is in a position of war with Turkey, and the act falls under international jurisdiction as a war crime.

Possibility two is that, if the killings were not authorised Israeli military action, they were acts of murder under Turkish jurisdiction. If Israel does not consider itself in a position of war with Turkey, then it must hand over the commandos involved for trial in Turkey under Turkish law.

In brief, if Israel and Turkey are not at war, then it is Turkish law which is applicable to what happened on the ship. It is for Turkey, not Israel, to carry out any inquiry or investigation into events and to initiate any prosecutions. Israel is obliged to hand over indicted personnel for prosecution.

So if someone who is an expert in maritime law actually agrees with my position, I guess my embarassement is bearable.

[/quote]

As a result of disciplinary action for trading UK Visa’s for sex Murray was charged with gross misconduct and relieved of his duties as ambassador to Uzbekistan. He is a Liberal Democrat who cannot be considered an unbiased source of information. [/quote]

But he can considered to be an expert on maritime law.

I hear the British are quite good at that, having some naval tradition, and he was their chief.
[/quote]

The British have boarded vessels in neutral water so you are wrong. ie The Altmark affair which occurred inside the territorial waters of neutral Norway in February 1940. Before the Altmark affair the Germans had routinely traversed Norwegian waters taking advantage of Norwegian neutrality to protect them. It is how Germany was able to safely transport iron ore from Sweden at the beginning of the war.

The Altmark was a supply ship for the Graf Spee that was transporting British pows through Norwegian waters figuring they were safe from the Royal Navy because they would not enter neutral water to free the men. The royal Navy destroyer HMS Cossack tried to intercept the Altmark which retreated up a Norwegian fjord.

A day later under direct orders from the First Sea Lord of the Admiralty, Winston Churchill, HMS Cossack sailed past a Norwegian naval vessel that tried to stop it, entered the fjord, then a boarding party armed with cutlasses and pistols boarded the Altmark, killed 6 Germans, wounded 8 and freed 299 British merchant seamen who were being held prisoner.

After that, because the British had so dramatically demonstrated that they were not going to play a game where they let their enemy use neutrality against them as a weapon the Germans invaded Norway.

Winston Churchill did not bullshit around with his people’s enemies, he took care of business. The Israelis are wise to do the same. The fact that people like you are offended shows that they are doing the right thing. [/quote]

So your point is that if someone breaks a law, nobody else can break that law ever again?
[/quote]

Have you been spending a lot of time at Oktoberfest? Because I don’t know how you came up with that one. You are the one who is quoting a junior clark in the Crete maritime office whose greatest responsibility was issuing fishing licenses. While I have countered your argument with the actions of a much higher authority.

The First Sea Lord is responsible for the defense of the realm. What Winston Churchill did was show how you prevail in a time of war. War is hell. It is not a game of cricket. You don’t allow your enemy to have safe zones so they can freely move logistics that they are going to use to kill your people.

[/quote]

Winston Chrurchill was a war criminal long before WWII.

At the most he is a “higher authority” on not giving a shit.

Does not change the fact that throwing around words like “acts of war” to justify your actions are a really bad idea when you are doing exactly that.

82

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]weby wrote:
Israel is a state which does not have fixed borders except those included in the resolution of the United Nations 181 of 1948, Israel illegally occupies grounds and does not stop expanding over the years, always with the best pretexts,
Israel did not take into account any of the 65 resolutions of the UN or the 30 vetos from the United States,
Israel continuously scorns international law, the only one which can potentially solve the conflict, using consensus,

Israel is openly violating the Geneva Convention on the protection of civil populations in wartime, and was condemned by many NGOs such as Amnesty International,
Israel uses cluster bombs against civil populations (more than a million during the 2006 war against Lebanon) invoking �¢??self-defense�¢?? (sic!),
Israel uses white phosphorus bombs (incendiary devices!) in over-populated civilian zones: Tsahal, the Israeli army, admitted it, after denying it for a long time whereas humanitarians NGOs were denouncing it,

The Israeli press praised the technological exploits of its air force which uses smart bombs, GBU 39 with Uranium Depleted, to bomb their targets in the Gaza Strip: everywhere else, this is called �¢??a crime against humanity�¢??. Except in Israel,
[/quote]

After world war one, when the Ottoman empire was being broken up at Versailles and the various countries of the middle east were being created the “international community” had the opportunity to apply “international law” and give the Jews back their ancestral homeland. Even after Hitler came along and said he was going to wipe out the Jews the British stuck to “international law” and refused to let them back into their homeland.

“International law” scorned the Jews at the time of their greatest need and millions died as a result. Thanks to the British and their ruthless, heartless, enforcement of the Palestine mandate the Jews got a lesson in “international law” that they will be wise to never forget. For you to now invoke “international law” as something that they should slavishly obey to their detriment is pure unadulterated bullshit. You need to get your head out of your ass and come into the real world.

[/quote]

what homeland are you talking about, the european jews should have stayed in europe. Instead of claiming land in the ME was theirs.

83

[quote]Sifu wrote:
[
After world war one, when the Ottoman empire was being broken up at Versailles and the various countries of the middle east were being created the “international community” had the opportunity to apply “international law” and give the Jews back their ancestral homeland. Even after Hitler came along and said he was going to wipe out the Jews the British stuck to “international law” and refused to let them back into their homeland.

“International law” scorned the Jews at the time of their greatest need and millions died as a result. Thanks to the British and their ruthless, heartless, enforcement of the Palestine mandate the Jews got a lesson in “international law” that they will be wise to never forget. For you to now invoke “international law” as something that they should slavishly obey to their detriment is pure unadulterated bullshit. You need to get your head out of your ass and come into the real world. [/quote]

Sifu, you are spot on with your history. Have you heard of the book The Rape of Palestine by George Ziff? Recently republished by Martino publishing. If you haven’t read it (though you sound as if you have) you might be interested in reading it. Naturally, because it showed them as the antiSemitic scum they were, the British banned it when it came out.

i used to be more polite about the British and still respect many of them as individuals. But the more i find out what they (and others have done to the Jews, simply because they are Jews, the more disgusting I find them. There are too many webys around with unhealthy antiJew obsessions.
Shows the lack of upbringing in the world i suppose, that they can barely be civil and can barely read. And to think that there are so many more interesting things in the world to do and accomplish, but no, they settle for Jew-hatred. Amazing.

84

[quote]'nuffsaid wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
[
After world war one, when the Ottoman empire was being broken up at Versailles and the various countries of the middle east were being created the “international community” had the opportunity to apply “international law” and give the Jews back their ancestral homeland. Even after Hitler came along and said he was going to wipe out the Jews the British stuck to “international law” and refused to let them back into their homeland.

“International law” scorned the Jews at the time of their greatest need and millions died as a result. Thanks to the British and their ruthless, heartless, enforcement of the Palestine mandate the Jews got a lesson in “international law” that they will be wise to never forget. For you to now invoke “international law” as something that they should slavishly obey to their detriment is pure unadulterated bullshit. You need to get your head out of your ass and come into the real world. [/quote]

and you settle for islamophobia

Sifu, you are spot on with your history. Have you heard of the book The Rape of Palestine by George Ziff? Recently republished by Martino publishing. If you haven’t read it (though you sound as if you have) you might be interested in reading it. Naturally, because it showed them as the antiSemitic scum they were, the British banned it when it came out.

i used to be more polite about the British and still respect many of them as individuals. But the more i find out what they (and others have done to the Jews, simply because they are Jews, the more disgusting I find them. There are too many webys around with unhealthy antiJew obsessions.
Shows the lack of upbringing in the world i suppose, that they can barely be civil and can barely read. And to think that there are so many more interesting things in the world to do and accomplish, but no, they settle for Jew-hatred. Amazing.

[/quote]

85

[quote]'nuffsaid wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:
[
After world war one, when the Ottoman empire was being broken up at Versailles and the various countries of the middle east were being created the “international community” had the opportunity to apply “international law” and give the Jews back their ancestral homeland. Even after Hitler came along and said he was going to wipe out the Jews the British stuck to “international law” and refused to let them back into their homeland.

“International law” scorned the Jews at the time of their greatest need and millions died as a result. Thanks to the British and their ruthless, heartless, enforcement of the Palestine mandate the Jews got a lesson in “international law” that they will be wise to never forget. For you to now invoke “international law” as something that they should slavishly obey to their detriment is pure unadulterated bullshit. You need to get your head out of your ass and come into the real world. [/quote]

Sifu, you are spot on with your history. Have you heard of the book The Rape of Palestine by George Ziff? Recently republished by Martino publishing. If you haven’t read it (though you sound as if you have) you might be interested in reading it. Naturally, because it showed them as the antiSemitic scum they were, the British banned it when it came out.

i used to be more polite about the British and still respect many of them as individuals. But the more i find out what they (and others have done to the Jews, simply because they are Jews, the more disgusting I find them. There are too many webys around with unhealthy antiJew obsessions.
Shows the lack of upbringing in the world i suppose, that they can barely be civil and can barely read. And to think that there are so many more interesting things in the world to do and accomplish, but no, they settle for Jew-hatred. Amazing.

[/quote]

Good post.