Hey guys I was watching fights in espn and seen a guy throw a uppercut with his thumb pointed towards him almost? Is this a liable punch or was it just out of mistake? I googled some uppercut variations .Does anyone know of this punch?
It’s an uppercut with the thumb facing you. Vertical fist. Anyone know of this or any footage? Highly appreciated.
[quote]shs101 wrote:
Hey guys I was watching fights in espn and seen a guy throw a uppercut with his thumb pointed towards him almost? Is this a liable punch or was it just out of mistake? I googled some uppercut variations .Does anyone know of this punch?
It’s an uppercut with the thumb facing you. Vertical fist. Anyone know of this or any footage? Highly appreciated.[/quote]
My coach showed me this the other day. It’s for when the opponent’s guard is reasonably right, and throwing your uppercut conventionally would see it be caught by his guard. The thumb facing uppercut lets you sneak through a tighter guard. It’s not as big-a-punch as a conventional uppercut, but can still open up opportunities for hooks etc. And it’s still a scoring punch…
I see that as something similar to a thumb up or thumb down jab. In my years of training I had never seen anything like that until I started working with boxing coaches and turning the hand to pass through the guard seems to be a common thing. I have never used it with an uppercut but straight punches I do it all the time.
Used quickly to split the tight guard.
Not an ideal punch because its difficult to land with the first two knuckles.
[quote]Ranzo wrote:
I see that as something similar to a thumb up or thumb down jab. In my years of training I had never seen anything like that until I started working with boxing coaches and turning the hand to pass through the guard seems to be a common thing. I have never used it with an uppercut but straight punches I do it all the time.
[/quote]
Yup. We call it a “2-jab” or a “skinny jab.” It doesn’t involve turning the fist, so you lose that snap, but it can get a good amount of power because of the very direct line to your shoulder.
I use it fairly often because, as said previously, it’s good at splitting a fairly tight guard, which can be made tighter by big sparring gloves. I first saw Manny Pacquiao use it, and it works well for him.
The uppercut is just another variation of that. One thing I will say, however, is that it’s hard (for me) to get the same amount of power on an uppercut that has the thumb pointed at you. That could be because I never really practice it though.
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Used quickly to split the tight guard.
Not an ideal punch because its difficult to land with the first two knuckles.[/quote]
I disagree. I don’t punch with the first two knuckles - I punch mostly with the last three - but its the aforementioned lack of power that makes it less than ideal for me.
Anyone encountering any “sprained wrist” problems with this punch?
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Used quickly to split the tight guard.
Not an ideal punch because its difficult to land with the first two knuckles.[/quote]
I disagree. I don’t punch with the first two knuckles - I punch mostly with the last three - but its the aforementioned lack of power that makes it less than ideal for me. [/quote]
i converted to striking like this as well… i think it was some of the bare knuckle boxing stuff you mentioned a while back…
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Used quickly to split the tight guard.
Not an ideal punch because its difficult to land with the first two knuckles.[/quote]
I disagree. I don’t punch with the first two knuckles - I punch mostly with the last three - but its the aforementioned lack of power that makes it less than ideal for me. [/quote]
i converted to striking like this as well… i think it was some of the bare knuckle boxing stuff you mentioned a while back…[/quote]
It’s funny, because I just had a conversation with a good friend of mine who, besides being a good pro boxer, is also a bareknuckle champ. He was absolutely adamant about striking with the last three knuckles, and for the same reasons that Dempsey enumerated in his book - they form a straight line down the forearm, and you’re more likely to land with the larger part of the fist if you aim for that.
The ring knuckle, he said, is prone to issues because it sticks out at an awkward angle compared to the other ones, and the bone supporting it does the same.
By the way, when fighting bareknuckle he does not give two shits about whether the fist is vertical or horizontal. He said it depends what target he’s aiming for, but that a shot to the face doesn’t necessarily have to be turned over, especially without gloves.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Used quickly to split the tight guard.
Not an ideal punch because its difficult to land with the first two knuckles.[/quote]
I disagree. I don’t punch with the first two knuckles - I punch mostly with the last three - but its the aforementioned lack of power that makes it less than ideal for me. [/quote]
i converted to striking like this as well… i think it was some of the bare knuckle boxing stuff you mentioned a while back…[/quote]
It’s funny, because I just had a conversation with a good friend of mine who, besides being a good pro boxer, is also a bareknuckle champ. He was absolutely adamant about striking with the last three knuckles, and for the same reasons that Dempsey enumerated in his book - they form a straight line down the forearm, and you’re more likely to land with the larger part of the fist if you aim for that.
The ring knuckle, he said, is prone to issues because it sticks out at an awkward angle compared to the other ones, and the bone supporting it does the same.
[/quote]
Do you mean index knuckle here? Because Dempsey was all about using the ring knuckle as his “power line”/aiming knuckle.
[quote]
By the way, when fighting bareknuckle he does not give two shits about whether the fist is vertical or horizontal. He said it depends what target he’s aiming for, but that a shot to the face doesn’t necessarily have to be turned over, especially without gloves.[/quote]
This I agree with a lot. The idea of “fitting” strikes to the target is pretty common in TMA/combatives circles as well.
As far as what knuckles to use I have seen folks do very well with both first two and last three. I look for the common ground and tell people that you should always try to land the middle knuckle, either with company from your index or ring and pinky. Avoid hitting with your thumb or just the pinky knuckle and you will likely be ok unless you miss or hit something way to hard, with too much force.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]Robert A wrote:
Do you mean index knuckle here? Because Dempsey was all about using the ring knuckle as his “power line”/aiming knuckle.
[/quote]
Yes. I mis-wrote. I meant the index knuckle.
[quote]
This I agree with a lot. The idea of “fitting” strikes to the target is pretty common in TMA/combatives circles as well.
As far as what knuckles to use I have seen folks do very well with both first two and last three. I look for the common ground and tell people that you should always try to land the middle knuckle, either with company from your index or ring and pinky. Avoid hitting with your thumb or just the pinky knuckle and you will likely be ok unless you miss or hit something way to hard, with too much force.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
It’s a good middle ground. He also noted that he never hits with full power barefist because it would be too hard on the hands. That’s the difference when your hands are wrapped and when they’re not - when they are, you feel like you can punch through a door, but when they’re not, watch out.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Robert A wrote:
Do you mean index knuckle here? Because Dempsey was all about using the ring knuckle as his “power line”/aiming knuckle.
[/quote]
Yes. I mis-wrote. I meant the index knuckle.
[quote]
This I agree with a lot. The idea of “fitting” strikes to the target is pretty common in TMA/combatives circles as well.
As far as what knuckles to use I have seen folks do very well with both first two and last three. I look for the common ground and tell people that you should always try to land the middle knuckle, either with company from your index or ring and pinky. Avoid hitting with your thumb or just the pinky knuckle and you will likely be ok unless you miss or hit something way to hard, with too much force.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
It’s a good middle ground. He also noted that he never hits with full power barefist because it would be too hard on the hands. That’s the difference when your hands are wrapped and when they’re not - when they are, you feel like you can punch through a door, but when they’re not, watch out.[/quote]
I would make it more of a distinction of “penetration”, than “power”. When your wrist is wrapped and your knuckles are padded by a glove you can get away with a little more “thrust”/drive in your punches because you are somewhat protected from having your wrist/hand fail/buckle. If this is the same friend of yours I am thinking of than having seen some of his tape I wouldn’t say he was hitting “lighter” so much as a bit “faster” or “shallower”.
Additionally training to hit with thicker padded gloves forces us to account for the extra half inch or more of padding. Bare knuckle a bit more “snap” may yield more result. You can still dig in body shots below the ribs though, and a hook to the chin or temple is a notable exception for blows to the head.
Looking at how full contact karate fighters strike bare knuckle vs when they transfer over to kickboxing can be somewhat illuminating. It is also worth noting that they don’t punch to the head bare knuckle, and watching folks punch under rules where the jab doesn’t really exist instead of being the premier punch is sort of odd.
Andy Hug vs Francisco Filho under knockdown rules:
Filho in K-1
Hug in K-1
Note: music gets progressively worse in each vid.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Robert A wrote:
Do you mean index knuckle here? Because Dempsey was all about using the ring knuckle as his “power line”/aiming knuckle.
[/quote]
Yes. I mis-wrote. I meant the index knuckle.
[quote]
This I agree with a lot. The idea of “fitting” strikes to the target is pretty common in TMA/combatives circles as well.
As far as what knuckles to use I have seen folks do very well with both first two and last three. I look for the common ground and tell people that you should always try to land the middle knuckle, either with company from your index or ring and pinky. Avoid hitting with your thumb or just the pinky knuckle and you will likely be ok unless you miss or hit something way to hard, with too much force.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
It’s a good middle ground. He also noted that he never hits with full power barefist because it would be too hard on the hands. That’s the difference when your hands are wrapped and when they’re not - when they are, you feel like you can punch through a door, but when they’re not, watch out.[/quote]
It also depends on bone density, the way you make your fist, and wrist strength though. My instructor’s father and the younger of my two head instructors have hands and bone structures in general like rock, have been boxing/kickboxing for their whole lives (and been in countless real fights), and have crazy strong hands (which, when combined with knowing how to make a correct “brawling fist” make for an extremely tight, stable, and strong fist). They hit people full power bare fist and have never broken their hands.
Admittedly though, most people do not have the same type of bone density, decades of refinement of technique, timing, accuracy, etc…, or hand strength and so likely do have to be a little more careful about throwing full power strikes without gloves and wrapped hands.
Finally, as I’ve mentioned before, old time bare knuckle fighters rarely if ever threw uppercuts to the chin, but instead only to the body. It was only after the introduction of boxing gloves that uppercuts to the chin became a common punch.