Ultimate "TRT+" protocol for endurance / performance while remaining health conscious?

Pharma / TRT
1

Thinking of something that is relatively sustainable in the long term provided regular blood work shows markers staying in check.

The focus is performance but more from an endurance side than a max strength side - think max sustainable power output over the course of maybe 60 seconds at the shortest to 90ish minutes at the longest with most of the focus being in the 3 - 20 minute range.

Aside from some of the more standard, OTC supplements which I consider daily staples (fish oil, creatine monohydrate, beta alanine, betaine / TMG, caffeine when needed), here is what I am thinking from a performance standpoint.

“Staples” -

Testosterone: 175mg - 250mg (weekly)

Boldenone: 175mg - 250mg (weekly)
or
Primobolan: 100mg - 150mg (weekly)

Tadalafil: 2.5mg - 5mg (daily)

SLU-PP-332: 1mg - 2mg (daily)

Methylene Blue: 5mg - 10mg (daily)

“Add-Ons” (to be used for “blasts” sporadically) -

Cardarine: 10mg - 15mg daily

Turinabol: 10mg - 25mg daily
or
Oxandralone: 10mg - 25mg daily

If you were looking to build out something that would be relatively sustainable long term but focused on endurance performance, what would you look to use / add / subtract?

2

650mg/wk is a cycle, not trt+

200-250mg/wk is more like trt+

Not that I’m knocking this idea… but honestly if the goal is just endurance trt alone goes a long way….

But I’d think trt test + primo + EQ might crash E2 and many feel like crap with low E2

Athletes generally don’t use nearly as much as strength athletes or bodybuilders. Look at dosages given to Olympic caliber athletes during the East German doping scandal for reference

At the end of the day, what works for you might not work for someone else and vice versa.

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3

My apologies if my post was confusing as I did not mean both boldenone and primobolan, rather one or the other. It would still be upwards of 400mg - 500mg total weekly which I certainly agree is well above TRT doses.

I have not read up much on the Olympic athletes and dosages - I will certainly do so. Thanks!

4

This is not sustainable year round.

Your not an Olympic athlete so 0 reason to copy what they do.

Are you currently on TRT or this is what your thinking your gonna do?

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5

I appreciate the insight! I’m not looking to 100% copy what they do or did but I am a bit naïve to their protocols so I am going to look at them more for knowledge than anything.

I am on doctor prescribed TRT; my PCP prescribes. Before I started, my total T was 208 with free T, estradiol, and SHBG all pretty low and LH / FSH normal. He warned that I would likely want to start experimenting with other things over time which clearly he was spot on with. He also prescribes a low dose tadalafil which I have been using as well.

I would presume the SLU-PP-332 and methylene blue would be something that would be sustainable for a longer period provided they’re within budget as they’re non-hormonal. Would the primo or boldenone / equipoise also be something to bring in and out for periods of time when it’s time to push?

6

This is what I do. TRT most of the year and push with some additional during growth phases.
Just keep an eye on bloods.

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7

Thanks a ton!

I don’t compete per se, other than against myself, but I generally will set some kind of objective every six months or so. My training is then based around that objective, going from least specific to more specific before testing and restarting.

I can see where boldenone (at least the commonly available equipoise) might be hard to line up twice a year because of how long it lasts and acts, but it could be an option for one of the two pushes.

Would you have a recommendation with respect to which one to start with for a push - boldenone, primobolan, turinabol, or anavar? Keeping in mind once I test for my next objective (end of April), I’ll be looking to push for something that is in the 6 - 7 minute range.

8

The physique in your profile pic is JUST from TRT with some GH?

I’d have thought you were at the very least pushing the test dose up every now and then and/or had a history of blast and cruise but now maintain on trt

9

No that’s more than test/GH.
Test/deca/eq/igf.
What I was conveying to to OP is that TRT most of the year and then add compounds when growing. He is talking about multiple compounds long term. Not ideal IMO.

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10

Running? How far?
I would not run much test if that’s your goal. You’re gonna put in water. Would stay at reg TRT dose unless in a strength phase. Honestly the best AAS I’ve found for running/cycling at a high level are ostarine and cardarine. They help a great deal pushing through the lactic.

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First, thank you again for your continued participation - I think anyone can read and research what’s been stated before but having a bit of dialog back and forth is infinitely more valuable. I do sincerely appreciate that time you’ve taken to comment thus far and share your own experiences and knowledge.

Running used to be a big thing for me, now its more of a here and there. I found that to keep getting better, I had to keep driving up the total volume while keeping some intensity in there and it just left me feeling a bit more beat up than I would like. I’m not the biggest guy but I’m not a 60kg runner either. My current goal or objective has some running in it but the running accounts for maybe 1/3 of the total time (~15 mins of the total ~45 mins or so); I’ve been doing a little running here and there to make sure I am prepared but the volume is relatively low and the focus has been more on the quality.

Most of what I push for now endurance wise is on the rower. It’s a bit friendlier on my body and I seem to be able to hold on to muscle and strength a bit better than if pushing running volume. It also rewards being a bit bigger, stronger, more powerful than running does and frankly, I would rather have that muscle and strength while still having an engine, especially as I get a bit older. I know “hybrid” is all the rage these days and while I certainly respect and even slightly envy the folks who are bigger and stronger that can run quite a bit, I think rowing is one of those “hidden gems” that more people should give a go.

I’ll be pushing to beat an old 2k PR; most 2k’s for fit but not necessarily elite are within that 6:00 - 7:00 time domain. I’ve pushed some shorter stuff in the past (500m; ~90 secs) and longer stuff (half marathons, marathons), but the 2k is one of those benchmark tests that I just have not given a proper go - I’ve tested it but not with proper training / preparation. I want to really buckle down and put in a dedicated block to see what I can do. The 2k is also one of those distances or time domains where dealing with lactate is a real thing. The 500m is highly glycolytic and it hurts bad, but only for a short period of time as its over quick. The distance stuff I’ve done I’ve really enjoyed; it starts to hurt towards the end, but more of the dull type of hurt, but you can get into quite the rhythm for most of it zone out. The 2k hurts as it’s intense, but it hurts for a while and it’s hard to see the end of it when you’re in it.

Cardarine is certainly something I am interested in and will be adding for likely the last 8-12 weeks or so. There seems to be conflicting information regarding cancer risk; from everything I’ve looked at, it seems like the risk might be a bit overblown but at the same time, I would assume if it was, pharma would have pursued the compound more aggressively based on all the other benefits it seems to have.

I had not looked much into ostarine or any of the sarms for that matter. I will have to read more into ostarine more specifically.

And I could very well be overthinking or overemphasizing the PEDs with respect to all of this. TRT has been a lifesaver for me personally; it could be that, because of how much of a positive change it’s had, I’m putting more weight on adding to it than it’s really worth.

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You sound a bit like me, although Im 66. This winter I set a DL goal of 500lbs, and got it. Now my next goal is a sub 7min 2K on the concept 2, which I did in 2020, (6:55). Feel Im more knowledgeable now and will shoot for a 6:50. Im on TRT 100mg a week, plus cialis 5mg. Might use some cardarine for that last 6 weeks or so, as well as other supps like betaine, creatine etc…

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I’m a bit younger but what you’re doing is what I aspire to do as I get older - keep killing it!

I went from collegiate athletics, albeit a sport that doesn’t necessarily require much strength work, to 100% all in on strength for about 12 years, to pretty well all in on endurance (mainly running) for a couple of years before landing where I am now with pursuing a few different things but with rowing at the forefront. Rowing is one of those things that I wish more people would give a shot with respect to cardio / endurance as it is very versatile.

My doc prescribed a pretty generous TRT dose but I am taking a bit more conservative amount (120mg / week); he recently prescribed tadalafil as well at 5mg which I will likely start out with 2.5mg and go from there. I have a concoction I make up for myself every morning (also happens to be an hour or two before training) which is creatine, beta alanine, betaine / TMG, l-carnitine l-tartrate, and electrolytes; I’ve been doing this for a long time though and don’t see any reason to get away from it as it seems to cover quite a few of the basics.

14

why are we still doing this TRT+ nonsense? just call it a cycle and get on with it. no one’s going to care. I don’t get it.

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15

Yup, I was a distance swimmer, D1, in the late 70s., then a serious triathlete for quite a while until injuries caught up to me, Time trial cyclist. Then as I got older started lifting more, alyhough I always did some strength training. Need goals for me to be motivated to push myself. Rowing is good for me and my size , 6-3 208, which Ill get down to under 200 by June. Anyway, sub 7 is a good goal, but want to beat my best from 5 years ago. Actually want 6:45, but that might be a bit more than I can do, but Im giving it a go. Im willing to hit over 100k a week and 2 a days to do it. Maybe I should start a log for my lifting and rowing since Ill still lift for DL pretty heavy as I believe there is a good carry over to rowing. Would be interested in following your progress as well. Good luck!

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I am a bit smaller and not necessarily built to row at 5’10", 185lbs, but I am like you and need some kind of target to shoot for.

I agree with you 100% that the deadlift carries over to rowing quite a bit. If we’re going to get ultra specific, I find that a small deficit deadlift wearing a weightlifting shoe seems to mimic rowing the most, but any kind of loaded hinge with a bit of extension at the knee will work well. I personally mix in a few different slight variations - various start positions but keeping within 2" or so from a “comp” set up, flat shoes or weightlifting shoes. It’s carry over to rowing is one reason why I keep it in programming with a decent amount of frequency. I have also found though that it’s been easier to maintain a number as opposed to build up or progress to a number; it seems to take quite a bit less volume and effort.

I really, really enjoy rowing, but have never properly programmed for, trained for, or executed a 2k, and I know it’s something I really should do. When prepping for the longer stuff like HM’s and FM’s, my volume got pretty high but it was very much aerobic training with some threshold efforts in there. When I prepped for a 500m, I actually didn’t row a ton of volume - it was a lot more strength work and a lot of shorter, sharper intervals.

I would certainly follow a log of yours as well - best of luck on the 500lb deadlift goal and I’m sure you would smash 6:45 with the right training.

17

I certainly have no qualms about calling it a cycle as it’s not TRT.

I do believe that TRT, even the rather generous amounts that some people are prescribed, is an overall net positive to health. The reason I termed it TRT+ is because I still want to keep overall health in mind and a priority, but would like to see or hear about certain things that could be added either for the long term or intermittently which could compliment / augment TRT or help when it comes to endurance goals.

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18

But there’s the catch. It’s not healthy at all. No synthetic androgen out there will benefit your health. They are all detrimental

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19

Would you classify testosterone, provided it’s not in a grossly supraphysiologic dose, as a synthetic androgen?

20

Exactly . Stick with trt . Good results just from that

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