[quote]Marzouk wrote:
Not really got America anywhere so far has it?
[/quote]
I would say America has come pretty damn far actually. Seeing as I’m free, my daughter is a equal, and I can wear a T-Shirt with anything on it and not worry about being lynched by a crazied mob…
Yeah, actually we have gotten pretty far. Shit, we elected a communist for christ sake. (kidding, kidding guys)
[quote]smh23 wrote:
Are you sure that that isn’t just the truth?[/quote]
Am I sure what isn’t just the truth? That the US government does not share that position?
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Further, if you’re right and I’m wrong, why then did the White House start backpedaling and disavowing the statement as soon as they caught wind of it: “The statement by Embassy Cairo was not cleared by Washington and does not reflect the views of the United States government.”?[/quote]
Are you sure that that isn’t just the truth?[/quote]
This is twice today I’ve seen critical thinkers I know trust what the government has said.
Have I really been so conditioned that I instantly think they are lying? I mean they could say the sky was blue and I would answer “not when it rains bitch”.
Romney made himself look like a fool today.
He came out of the gate with a misguided, irresponsible, and factually inaccurate statement. He accused the administration of apologizing rather condemning the violence, when in fact the statement was issued before any violence whatsoever. That is either stupidity or willful ignorance of a basic and simple reality for political gain, made drastically worse because it came piggybacked to tragic news of American deaths.
Perhaps more damaging to Romney’s image is the fact that everyone else in Washington (with the single and unsurprising exception John Kyl, whose stupid rape analogy was as logically flawed as it possibly could have been) came off as adult, appropriate, and classy. Neither Boehner nor McConnell–both of whom are usually happy to criticize the Obama administration–would stoop to the Romney campaign’s fatuous level. When CBS News asked Obama whether Romney’s comments were irresponsible, he responded that he’d leave that up to the American people.
I’ve always thought Romney, despite the nonsense that he had to spout during the primaries, would make a descent and pragmatic president, especially with regard to domestic issues. But he’s showing himself to be a ham-handed jackass oblivious to even the most obvious nuances of foreign policy. If he wins, I hope he learns quickly.
I’m genuinely curious. What makes you think that they do?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Further, if you’re right and I’m wrong, why then did the White House start backpedaling and disavowing the statement as soon as they caught wind of it: “The statement by Embassy Cairo was not cleared by Washington and does not reflect the views of the United States government.”?[/quote]
Are you sure that that isn’t just the truth?[/quote]
This is twice today I’ve seen critical thinkers I know trust what the government has said.
Have I really been so conditioned that I instantly think they are lying? I mean they could say the sky was blue and I would answer “not when it rains bitch”.[/quote]
You’re right, it could well not be the truth. In fact it probably wasn’t, so I cede that one.
I still don’t think the statement itself was apologetic–in its context. It would have been horrifyingly inappropriate if it had been issued in the wake of violence. But in its context it was appropriate, even routine–diplomats regularly issued statements like that during the Bush years. I’ll document this last fact later.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
–diplomats regularly issued statements like that during the Bush years. [/quote]
This doesn’t really surprise me.
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Simple solution: Set a barrier a reasonable distance from US embassy. If a crowd of crazy, protesting, Islamic extremists cross the barrier, mow them down with a mini gun.
Since violence is the only language these crazy fuckers understand and their “hearts and minds” will never be won, I have NO PROBLEM killing them when ever there is an opportunity. That is not to say I want to turn each Islamic country into a sheet of glass, but when a crowd of crazy fuckers is holding an embassy hostage, I view that as an imminent threat to US soil, and feel entitled to respond with overwhelming force.
This should accomplish two things: 1) if they have the ability to learn, then we will train them not to protest outside of our embassies, which is a good thing. 2) if they CONTINUE to protest and cross the line, we will have successfully killed some enemies of the US. Win=Win
I also think we should start dipping our bullets in pig blood and start burning some Korans. Since religion is the guiding force in their lives, it’s foolish not to exploit it’s inherent weakness and use as much psychological warfare against our enemy as possible. Put them off balance, draw them out, kill them.
Why the fuck are we still talking to and trying to reason with these stone age savages? [/quote]
Damn you’ve got anger issues.
Reason with stone age savages? The almighty dollar.
And your idea of killing them all? Not really got America anywhere so far has it?
Yes it’s wrong what they did, they shouldn’t have killed those 4 people.
But killing everyone isn’t the answer at all is it.
[/quote]
I’ve got anger issues? I’ve lived and worked in the Washington DC area for most of my adult life. I lost friends on September 11, 2001 when crazy Islamic fuckers flew a plane into the Pentagon. So when, on that anniversary, some MORE crazy Islamic fuckers attack one of our embassies and kill our ambassador, I am less than amused. You’re goddamned right I’ve got anger issues!
Please point to where I said, “kill them all”. I believe I was clear when I said we should not hesitate to kill THE CRAZY FUCKERS who cross a line on OUR SOVEREIGN SOIL. I also said I DON’T support the idea of turning the country into a sheet of glass, implying that I don’t think ALL the citizens of that country fall into the category of a CRAZY FUCKER.
As for killing them all not getting America very far, I disagree. America rose to prominence in the world because we DID kill them all. We DID drop that bomb. We kick ass and take names when it serves our interest and we have the most powerful military in the world. WE have the bigger guns and if you fuck with us, you do so at your peril. However, I would say that this pussy footing around trying not to offend everyone isn’t getting us very far.
Again, I don’t believe that killing ALL Muslims is fair at all. By all accounts and from my personal experience, MOST people who practice Islam are NOT extremist. But there happens to be a very vocal, violent, crazy faction of EXTREMISTS who have used the religion to manipulate ignorant portions of the population in some Islamic countries into believing that America deserves to be attacked. I have NO PROBLEM whatsoever killing these crazy fuckers. And I would further that by adding that by killing them in a manner that is abhorrent to their religion we would discourage more radical assholes rising up.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I believe I was clear when I said we should not hesitate to kill THE CRAZY FUCKERS who cross a line [/quote]
American’s are pretty clear on this message. If you kill American’s, even if you are American yourself, we will kill you back.
Think about it. A couple weeks ago a crazy bastard shot a bunch of innocent people at the movies. What did a whole bunch of people say? “Damn I wish more of those victims had guns so they could have killed that asshole.”
As I read the embassy’s statement, it was “I’m sorry your feelings were hurt”. Your basic non-apology, apology.
Whatever, it wasn’t from Obama.
So sorry for the ambassador and the other three that died. Terrible, and the bigger issue really is the security.
[quote]Christine wrote:
So sorry for the ambassador and the other three that died. Terrible, and the bigger issue really is the security.[/quote]
This is the other side of this.
Why wasn’t there more security there? Anyone know?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Christine wrote:
So sorry for the ambassador and the other three that died. Terrible, and the bigger issue really is the security.[/quote]
This is the other side of this.
Why wasn’t there more security there? Anyone know?[/quote]
I think the ones they are moving in now are regular marines there’s a few more requirements to be embassy security. Probably don’t have enough marines to post 200 or 300 in every embassy or consulate but probably they should have more in the Arab countries.
Usually I assume they don’t have so many because attacking an embassy is an act of war. It would be legitimate to go to war over an invasion of American territory if we so chose.
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
Will the death of 4 justify the death of 4000?[/quote]
Yeah.
The real problem is that this part and alot of the world is decivilised. From what I have seen the cities are overpopulated and the people are degenerated. To get an idea imagine that for every post in this thread by a ‘‘normal’’ american poster you would have 30 inane ones by arabs or whatever such as Marzouk. And we don’t count the ones that can’t write at all.
I don’t think this act had any motive, it is only apes doing ape stuff, trying to find someone or something to hate and to blame for the shittiness of their country. The funny thing is that all of those Usa haters have never been to America and America has little to no relation with them in their daily life.
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
But killing everyone isn’t the answer at all is it.
[/quote]
Depends what the question is.
[quote]groo wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Christine wrote:
So sorry for the ambassador and the other three that died. Terrible, and the bigger issue really is the security.[/quote]
This is the other side of this.
Why wasn’t there more security there? Anyone know?[/quote]
I think the ones they are moving in now are regular marines there’s a few more requirements to be embassy security. Probably don’t have enough marines to post 200 or 300 in every embassy or consulate but probably they should have more in the Arab countries.
Usually I assume they don’t have so many because attacking an embassy is an act of war. It would be legitimate to go to war over an invasion of American territory if we so chose. [/quote]
There weren’t any Marines there:
‘The consulate where the American ambassador to Libya was killed on Tuesday is an “interim facility” not protected by the contingent of Marines that safeguards embassies.’
Obama is stripping the military so he can’t actually protect US embassies/consulates, even in a country that he recently led a war against.
[quote]Legionary wrote:
No, really, attention to detail in something as sensitive as diplomacy is not an insignificant matter. I would think that we would want a potential Chief Diplomat to demonstrate that he possesses even an elementary understanding of, um… Diplomacy. Clearly he is no subject matter expert in this regard. Whats worse is that he is trying to politically capitalize on the deaths of men who were actually in the service of this country. He should have taken the respectful and solemn lead of the archetypical Republican, Ronald Reagan.
You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Considering the fact that Benghazi was just recently the provisional capitol of Libya, the ambassador, the man who is usually associated with the embassy was killed there and his remarks also referred to our embassy in Cairo it’s an understandable mistake.
Next point. The primary season is over. The conventions are over. It is only fifty three days until the presidential election. As the opposition leader it is Romney’s to speak out and tell us what he would do differently. The American embassy engaging in “American values apologetics” is not the same as Jimmy Carter’s bungled rescue mission during the Republican primary season.
The democrats whining like little bitches about Romney doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing, while they themselves are engaging in Chicago style politics shows how weak their case for reelection is. The democrats have no record to run on and when they get blow back from their foreign policy fuck ups they try to squelch legitimate criticism through use of the pity play.
‘The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims…’
Have you ever read anything so sickening in your life?
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
‘The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims…’
Have you ever read anything so sickening in your life?[/quote]
This came before the attacks.
I guess I was thinking of Egypt and didn’t realize that Libya was a consulate. Why was the ambassador at a consulate though…the way I understood it embassies are where we things of government interest and consulates did private citizen things like visas.
Regardless we should give them a time limit to turn over the people responsible for the attacks they’d be easy to find they were giving interviews. And if said timetables aren’t met use the two warships we sent over to hang around Libya.
The fucking video itself is kinda like a bad monty python sketch but unintentionally so to get so crazy about it would be like Catholics going off the deep end and killing some random Englishmen over the every sperm is sacred skit.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
Romney made himself look like a fool today.
He came out of the gate with a misguided, irresponsible, and factually inaccurate statement. He accused the administration of apologizing rather condemning the violence, when in fact the statement was issued before any violence whatsoever.
[/quote]
The statement was released early in the morning as crowds began to gather outside the Cairo embassy. By 11:00AM media reports told of over 2000 ‘protesters’ outside the U.S. Embassy. It was released to appease the gathering crowds who had been incited by the grand mufti Ali Gomaa the previous day. So the security of the embassy was already in question and the groveling statement made in a failed attempt to appease the IslamoNazis.