Turned 30, Baseline Tests Not Good

Training Over 35 Lifter
1

While getting a physical for my 30th birthday, I talked the nurse into ordering some tests for me. This is what came back:

Test total (3 profs) 353 ng/dl 240-950

Test, free, s 9.2 ng/dl 9-30

Estradiol 21 pg/ml 8-43

Thats all I figured I could talk her into, as she felt they were uncalled for. Tests were at 8am.

I am 30 years old, 6’2", 180, single digit BF%. Healthy T-Nation diet and training. Solid sleep, no booze or drugs, or weird herbal stuff that could be at issue.

Needless to say, my free test sucks, and is only going to decline with age.

Is my next move to get the LH and SHBG tests and determine if I have a primary or secondary issue? Could I try an HCG-only restart?

If it weren’t for this forum, I wouldn’t even have bothered to check…now I’m concerned.

As for symptoms, I can’t provide any solid data. I have had a stressfull life, so I’m miserable but can’t blame t-levels. My energy fluctuates and sexual function is solid. I do have severe ‘brain-haze’ but I probably always have…

For what it’s worth, had I hypothetically tried two short cycles of Prop in the past, I hypothetically felt happier and more energetic than I ever had. Thoughts? Help?

2

I can’t believe nobody answered you yet…
My understanding of primary versus secondary hypogonadism, is primary your body has shut itself down, due to no outside infulence. Secondary is due to outside influence, medication reactions and the like.
Your numbers are pathetic, but you knew that, and the SHBG, and LH tests will hopefully tell what has happened. Without knowing your LH/SHBG test results, it’s really hard to say if a HCG “kickstart” is possible.

It’s possible you have adrenal fatigue, and that may be one of the causes of your “shutdown”. The appropriate adrenal tests should probably be done too, since you need to know if you can be fixed, or if you need to start on HRT/TRT. “Everybody” feels better with a little “extra” T in their system. I hope your prop cycles aren’t the cause of your current condition. Keep us posted.

3

Primary hypogonadism is when the testes themselves aren’t functioning. Secondary hypogonadism is when the testes work fine but the hypothalamus and the pituitary aren’t sending out the signals for the testes to produce testosterone. The shorthand way to think of it is primary = production and secondary = control.

In the case of bodybuilders with a normally functioning HPTA, the high levels of testosterone caused by the exogenous testosterone they take, cause the hypothalamus and pituitary to stop sending signals to the testes because they sense that no testosterone is needed. The testes shut down because the hypothalamus and pituitary are functioning correctly and stop making LH and FSH. This is why hCG is effective (in “control” cases), because it simulates the signals from the H/P and the normal testes react as they should and produce hormones.

In the case of LastIDnotworking, if he took hCG and it elevated his T levels, he would know that his hypogonadism was secondary. If the hCG didn’t raise his T levels, he would know his hypogonadism was primary.

Some doctors will tell you that if your testicles are not atrophied at all, then you have primary hypogonadism. They’re trying to function, they just aren’t getting the job done. If the problem is secondary hypogonadism, then the testicles will atrophy just as happens to those whose exogenous testosterone has caused the HPTA to shut down.

Personally, I’m not so sure it is that simple. I believe low T it is spectrum with primary and secondary at opposite ends and we may be anywhere along that line. In other words, I believe it is possible for your “set points” to deteriorate or get screwed up so that your HPTA is actually working correctly, it is just working to maintain levels that are messed up. And along with that, you may or may not have testes that are trying but not succeeding to produce testosterone.

I’ve actually come to believe that all of this really matters very little. It is good to have a knowledge base, but the bottom line is what are you going to do?

So LastIDnotworking, my question to you is, what are you going to do? What do you want to have happen? Do you want a doctor to treat you or are you going to treat yourself? What difference would it make to you to know if your hypogonadism is primary or secondary? If you’re looking for knowledge about the functioning of the HPTA, that information is readily available to anyone who simply looks for it.

Have you discussed your blood work with your doctor? What was his/her reaction? Have you discussed your symptoms with your doctor? Did you have your thyroid levels checked?

You post raises a lot of questions and it would be foolish to recommend a course of action given so little to go on.

Having hormone issues isn’t like having a headache and trying to decide if you should take aspirin or tylenol. It’s a big deal and not something to decide from a couple of posts in a forum.

4

[quote]happydog48 wrote:
Primary hypogonadism is when the testes themselves aren’t functioning. Secondary hypogonadism is when the testes work fine but the hypothalamus and the pituitary aren’t sending out the signals for the testes to produce testosterone. The shorthand way to think of it is primary = production and secondary = control.

In the case of bodybuilders with a normally functioning HPTA, the high levels of testosterone caused by the exogenous testosterone they take, cause the hypothalamus and pituitary to stop sending signals to the testes because they sense that no testosterone is needed. The testes shut down because the hypothalamus and pituitary are functioning correctly and stop making LH and FSH. This is why hCG is effective (in “control” cases), because it simulates the signals from the H/P and the normal testes react as they should and produce hormones.

In the case of LastIDnotworking, if he took hCG and it elevated his T levels, he would know that his hypogonadism was secondary. If the hCG didn’t raise his T levels, he would know his hypogonadism was primary.

Some doctors will tell you that if your testicles are not atrophied at all, then you have primary hypogonadism. They’re trying to function, they just aren’t getting the job done. If the problem is secondary hypogonadism, then the testicles will atrophy just as happens to those whose exogenous testosterone has caused the HPTA to shut down.

Personally, I’m not so sure it is that simple. I believe low T it is spectrum with primary and secondary at opposite ends and we may be anywhere along that line. In other words, I believe it is possible for your “set points” to deteriorate or get screwed up so that your HPTA is actually working correctly, it is just working to maintain levels that are messed up. And along with that, you may or may not have testes that are trying but not succeeding to produce testosterone.

I’ve actually come to believe that all of this really matters very little. It is good to have a knowledge base, but the bottom line is what are you going to do?

So LastIDnotworking, my question to you is, what are you going to do? What do you want to have happen? Do you want a doctor to treat you or are you going to treat yourself? What difference would it make to you to know if your hypogonadism is primary or secondary? If you’re looking for knowledge about the functioning of the HPTA, that information is readily available to anyone who simply looks for it.

Have you discussed your blood work with your doctor? What was his/her reaction? Have you discussed your symptoms with your doctor? Did you have your thyroid levels checked?

You post raises a lot of questions and it would be foolish to recommend a course of action given so little to go on.

Having hormone issues isn’t like having a headache and trying to decide if you should take aspirin or tylenol. It’s a big deal and not something to decide from a couple of posts in a forum.[/quote]

Great Explanation! happydog48

Let me just say it is very important to find a good doctor also. One that knows HRT and 1 that is willing to treat you. Sometimes it’s hard to find or not feasible to get 1 of these doctors, but it does make all the difference in the world. Like happydog48 said It’s a big deal. Good Luck

5

So what exactly is adrenal fatigue and what do you do about it? I’m sure it’s atleast a factor in my condition, going from 1 stressor to another. Top that off with the fact that most of the things I enjoy involve adrenaline.

BTW I finally have an appointment to see a DO who does both pain management and age management.

6

[quote]happydog48 wrote:
So LastIDnotworking, my question to you is, what are you going to do? What do you want to have happen? Do you want a doctor to treat you or are you going to treat yourself? What difference would it make to you to know if y readily available to anyone who simply looks for it.

Have you discussed your blood work with your doctor? What was his/her reaction? Have you discussed your symptoms with your doctor? Did you have your thyroid levels checked?
[/quote]

I’ve made an endo appointment. My doc is clueless. I am not going to ‘treat’ myself. I want to avoid TRT, and am hoping to talk the endo into trying an HCG kickstart if I have shut down testes. Realistically, the doc will not have heard of it, and I’ll prob get nowhere.

The only tests I got were the ones posted. I clearly need the FSH, SHBG and adrenal tests. My doc thought my bloodwork was ‘perfect’.

I’m assuming my adrenals will be off,(bad stress) then what?

7

For those interested in adrenal fatigue:

There’s no such thing as an hCG “kickstart” so I have no idea what you’re thinking there. If you had a normally functioning HPTA that was shut down due to exogenous testosterone, then taking hCG would stimulate the testes to remain functioning UNTIL the normally functioning HPTA recognizes the drop in testosterone and starts producing LH and FSH again. Since we can presume that you don’t have a normally functioning HPTA, the most that you can expect from hCG is that the results will tell you if your hypogonadism is primary or secondary. It isn’t going to cure anything and you’re right, probably no doctor in his right mind is going to let you ‘try’ some hCG just for the hell of it. If your doctor thinks your blood work is perfect, why would he give you anything?