I think people would be better off if there mindset was more along the lines of
First and foremost I have to gain muscular size. Secondly I want to be healthy as I do it. Thirdly I want to mantain a reasonable level of bodyfat as I grow.
Unfortunatelly a lot of people are backwards and worry about staying lean or “is this healthy” and forget priority number one.
[quote]akumaslair wrote:
Fair enough… point taken…
but this does not mean I should go out any eat a bucket of kfc every night does it??
I mean just the KFC chicken has high amounts of salt which is negative but it will be high in sat fats and protein…
somehow I don’t think this will sit well with my body…
[/quote]
The worst thing about eating a bucket of KFC is the breading, which is white flour (a high GI carb source) infused with a shitload of the oil they fry it in (which, I think, used to be trans-fat, and is now soybean oil, or something). Eating an equivalent amount of chicken, cooked another way, is a GREAT idea for you.
Ideally you would spread it out over a few meals, but yeah, a whole roasted or grilled chicken every night is hardly a terrible idea, as long as you are pushing yourself hard in the gym. And don’t nance around with peeling the skin off if you’re trying to gain weight.
Salt is not really a big deal, unless you have high blood pressure. I mean, if you eat really salty foods, you will retain more water, and be heavier, but that will go away after a day or two of eating normal food.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
I think people would be better off if there mindset was more along the lines of
First and foremost I have to gain muscular size. Secondly I want to be healthy as I do it. Thirdly I want to mantain a reasonable level of bodyfat as I grow.
Unfortunatelly a lot of people are backwards and worry about staying lean or “is this healthy” and forget priority number one. [/quote]
This is genius. Scott, I’m stealing this.
That’s something I want to speak and discuss with people a lot, if I think about it I might make a much more detailed thread about it. It really is an epidemic of people doing everything in their power to match their acid/alkalin bases, stay at 10-12% bodyfat, etc, and they forget to train and eat like a fucking man.
You don’t see bunch of huge guys on this site that need to cut up a bit, we see a bunch of skinny guys worrying about getting too fat. I’ll wrap this up now, more to come alter.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
I think people would be better off if there mindset was more along the lines of
First and foremost I have to gain muscular size. Secondly I want to be healthy as I do it. Thirdly I want to mantain a reasonable level of bodyfat as I grow.
Unfortunatelly a lot of people are backwards and worry about staying lean or “is this healthy” and forget priority number one. [/quote]
There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be lean. Lean and muscular looks good and is good for you, but for pete’s sake you have to build something to cut first and you already know I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments here.
It’s human nature to some extent to think in extremes, but I can think of almost no other area where this is an absolute plague like it is in this game.
I can’t count the number of threads I’ve been in where somebody will calmly suggest that maybe some food would help your progress and you might grow quicker if you could only concentrate on… uhhh… growing, and out come the accusations of Ben n Jerry’s n Bon Bons. Pictures are posted showing 500 pound human medicine balls as if this is what is being proposed.
I agree:
1- Will it help me grow?
2- Does it pass the well being test?
3- Does the meat to mush payoff make sense.
Most guys can gain some muscle if they eat enough even without lifting weights, but that’s way too much mush for not enough meat. In other words use your damn head.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
It’s human nature to some extent to think in extremes, but I can think of almost no other area where this is an absolute plague like it is in this game.
[/quote]
You couldn’t be more right here. Bodybuilding itself is an absolutely fascinating thing from a psychological perspective as to why this sort of behavior happens. Is this type of person(all or nothing) drawn to it, does it develop from the lifestyle, that sort of thing gets the noggin ticking for me especially since I study a very related field.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
It’s human nature to some extent to think in extremes, but I can think of almost no other area where this is an absolute plague like it is in this game.
You couldn’t be more right here. Bodybuilding itself is an absolutely fascinating thing from a psychological perspective as to why this sort of behavior happens. Is this type of person(all or nothing) drawn to it, does it develop from the lifestyle, that sort of thing gets the noggin ticking for me especially since I study a very related field. [/quote]
Off the cuff I think that these types are that way to begin with and the very personal nature of the topic at hand probably amplifies it.
People are naturally touchy when dealing with their own being, and understandably so, but I don’t see this as an insurmountable obstacle. The mind can be trained, to some extent at least, to view things from a reasoned and balanced analytical perspective.
However even analysis itself falls prey to the lack of intellectual discipline epidemic as we see so many buried up to their left nostril in OVER analysis.
And speaking of lack of intellectual discipline, this is the underlying cause of a whole host of issues that find their way into forums like these. Just the same as one’s physical being can be worked and fed thus making it stronger and more substantial so can the intellectual being as well and this is just as much an issue in the modern world as is the collapse of physical health.
I really believe most people are more intelligent than they at first may appear, but they are cerebrally sedentary though they may even be in an educational environment or information driven job. Being spoon fed data or doing what you know does not exercise the mind by itself.
Along these lines, genetics be damned, most people struggling under the weights will find the root of that struggle between their ears.
I don’t know how I got off on all that, but for what it’s worth there’s my thoughts on the subject.
I may be missing something here, but I don’t know many average trainees that need 5-6 weight sessions per week when gaining weight. Maybe I’m some sort of intensity junky, but if you’re training more than 4 days per week and/or more than 2 hrs per session, you might not be working out hard enough.
I would utilize a 3-day per week total body workout or 3 nonconsecutive days on a sensible split. Obviously use the best “bang for your buck” exercises. Consume adequate protein for your lean bodyweight, and adjust carbs and fats based on your body comp and rate of gain or lack thereof. You really do grow when you’re at rest.
[quote]Radjxf wrote:
I may be missing something here, but I don’t know many average trainees that need 5-6 weight sessions per week when gaining weight. Maybe I’m some sort of intensity junky, but if you’re training more than 4 days per week and/or more than 2 hrs per session, you might not be working out hard enough.
I would utilize a 3-day per week total body workout or 3 nonconsecutive days on a sensible split. Obviously use the best “bang for your buck” exercises. Consume adequate protein for your lean bodyweight, and adjust carbs and fats based on your body comp and rate of gain or lack thereof. You really do grow when you’re at rest.[/quote]
I agree fully. My best gains have been on one hour 3 times per week.
D
I agree as well, but my first inclination is to always fix the diet first. You can gain off almost any training program, but you can’t do the same with diet.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
I agree as well, but my first inclination is to always fix the diet first. You can gain off almost any training program, but you can’t do the same with diet. [/quote]
I, as well, agree with both of you. I personally do best on 3 one hour workouts. Diet or the lack thereof is the number one obstacle to bigness. Even halfass work will bring some results if you’re eating, but you cannot outgrow the food no matter how hard you work.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Even halfass work will bring some results if you’re eating, but you cannot outgrow the food no matter how hard you work.[/quote]
Strong Words nomination.
so much advice, its very very simple
train to stimulate growth in the areas you want (entire body)
eat more than you burn
how much do you burn?
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=460331
eat more than that
I’m a big fan of pizza and cheeseburgers for gaining weight.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Even halfass work will bring some results if you’re eating, but you cannot outgrow the food no matter how hard you work.
Strong Words nomination.[/quote]
You honor me beyond my accomplishments.
Ya know what’s ironic about this whole eating thing? Outside the weight training world people are jumping through some disturbing hoops, including having their internal organs surgically altered,to try n keep from eating so much so they can shrink and the gym dwellers who are allegedly trying to grow are doing the practical equivalent of the same thing.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Even halfass work will bring some results if you’re eating, but you cannot outgrow the food no matter how hard you work.
Strong Words nomination.
You honor me beyond my accomplishments.
Ya know what’s ironic about this whole eating thing? Outside the weight training world people are jumping through some disturbing hoops, including having their internal organs surgically altered,to try n keep from eating so much so they can shrink and the gym dwellers who are allegedly trying to grow are doing the practical equivalent of the same thing.[/quote]
Yeah, wouldn’t it be nice to have those two groups switch appetites/metabolisms (even if only for a little while)? You’d essentially solve both problems at the same time.
This is Dante/Doggcrapp’s words in quotes. I edited out the final part because he discusses his own training and that’s not the point of this.
“There was a study some years back which included 3 groups–elite sumo wrestlers who did no weight training whatsoever, advanced bodybuilders and advanced powerlifters–about 20 in each group. Now there is a lot of variables here but they took the lean muscle mass of each group and divided it by their height in inches. Surprisingly the sumo wrestlers came out well ahead of the powerlifters (2nd) and the bodybuilders (very close 3rd). This is a group who did no weight training at all but engorged themselves with food trying to bring their bodyweight up to dramatic levels. How is a group that is doing no weight training having more muscle mass per inch of height than powerlifters and bodybuilders? For anyone that doubts food is the greatest anabolic in your arsenal, you better get up to speed and on the same page as what my trainees have found out.”
If it was me reading this study my eyes would be bugging out of my head. The SUMOS who BARELY TRAIN have more muscle than people who pride themselves on being the biggest and strongest around. Let’s repeat that because it doesn’t stick into everyone’s head. THE SUMOS WHO JUST ATE A TON OF FOOD HAD MORE MUSCLE THAN BODYBUILDERS AND POWERLIFTERS. MORE!!!
But lets look at the second and third place groups. What seperates bodybuilders and powerlifters? I’m not talking sets reps splits or any of that crap, it’s NOT about that. This isn’t for sentoguy and tiribulus because I feel like they know what the answers are, someone else tell me why did the powerlifters have more size than the bodybuilders. These are not complicated questions and really are easy answers when you think broadly and what the main differences are. To make it simplier it’s a two part answer
Part 1. What is differnet about what the goal is when they train
Part 2. What is different about the goal for how they eat?
If nobody answers(more likely haha) or people can’t get on the right track I’ll say what I think the answers are but hopefully someone will chime in with a good answer here.
heres another tip
heavy compounds like squats and deads will make your appetite bigger. sometimes it makes you hornier too, but it helps you eat more food and grow like crazy, so ride that cycle as much as possibly
Bump because nobody answered my questions as predicted haha. I’ll just get my point across since I was hoping people would answer and get some discussion going.
“Part 1. What is differnet about what the goal is when they train?”
Powerlifter
The goal with every single powerlifter is to get stronger, plain and simple. They train soley for that purpose because that’s what the competition is. It doesn’t matter if it’s WSB or Sheiko or anything in between, every system is designed to increase the three power lifts. Often times conditioning/cardio takes a back seat
Bodybuilder
The goal is usually to get bigger muscles, regardless of how they perform. Some care about strength some don’t, all that matters is the look in the end. Cardio is used often to scare off any fat gains.
“Part 2. What is different about the goal for how they eat?”
Powerlifter
The goal for a powerlifter when it comes to eating is going back to part 1, to get stronger. A six foot powerlifting at 190 is simply not going to have the leverages he needs to compete with the other 181s-198s, not even close. That six foot guy has to likely eat his way up to 242-308 weight classes. They are not afraid to carry around some extra bodyfat because it’s about lifting the weight and not being beach bod ready.
Bodybuilder
The goal for a bodybuilder is also highly related to part 1, to look good. There is a struggle here however as many don’t want to become out of shape and will eat accordingly to stay lean. This accomplishes number 1(usually) but leaves little room for progress unless genetically blessed.
So when I look at these things broken down really simple like this(otherwise I’m too dumb to comprehend haha) I come to some “conclusions”. The powerlifters train for strength and eat for size to inrease strength, carry more muscle and usually more fat. The bodybuilders train for looks, and attack that in whatever fashion they deem most appropriate and eat to look good and are usually pretty lean. The exception to this is when they take time away from the spotlight(if they are professional or top amateur) aren’t afraid to get a little chunky if necessary but certainely not “fat”, and progress significantly with the weights.
What does that sound like to you? To me an off season bodbyuilder sounds exactly like a powerlifter. Hmmm now we are getting somewhere. So let’s say someone trained like an off season bodybuilder/powerlifter(probably for higher reps though) dieted like an off season bodybuilder(a smart one), but did cardio like a pre contest bodybuilder, then we might have something interesting going on.
Look at the pros who make big time changes in their stage weight over a career. I’m not saying who’s the best(although some are) I’m saying who makes changes. Everyone loves Dexter Jacksons physique as do I, but I certainely wouldn’t follow his training and dieting strategy because he’s been roughly the same for many years. Someone like Dorian Yates however is a different story. He didn’t do 50 guest poses a year, he went away to his dungeon gym and trained with heavrer and heavier weights and ate the food necessary to build himself up and showed up bigger and badder for years after turning pro and likely would have continued if injury hadn’t shortened his career. One of those guys has a bunch of Sandows on his mantle and the other doesn’t, I don’t think many would argue that Dorian did more drugs or had better genetic. Those things I talked about above are what I see as the major differences.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Bump because nobody answered my questions as predicted haha. I’ll just get my point across since I was hoping people would answer and get some discussion going.
“Part 1. What is differnet about what the goal is when they train?”
Powerlifter
The goal with every single powerlifter is to get stronger, plain and simple. They train soley for that purpose because that’s what the competition is. It doesn’t matter if it’s WSB or Sheiko or anything in between, every system is designed to increase the three power lifts. Often times conditioning/cardio takes a back seat
Bodybuilder
The goal is usually to get bigger muscles, regardless of how they perform. Some care about strength some don’t, all that matters is the look in the end. Cardio is used often to scare off any fat gains.
“Part 2. What is different about the goal for how they eat?”
Powerlifter
The goal for a powerlifter when it comes to eating is going back to part 1, to get stronger. A six foot powerlifting at 190 is simply not going to have the leverages he needs to compete with the other 181s-198s, not even close. That six foot guy has to likely eat his way up to 242-308 weight classes. They are not afraid to carry around some extra bodyfat because it’s about lifting the weight and not being beach bod ready.
Bodybuilder
The goal for a bodybuilder is also highly related to part 1, to look good. There is a struggle here however as many don’t want to become out of shape and will eat accordingly to stay lean. This accomplishes number 1(usually) but leaves little room for progress unless genetically blessed.
So when I look at these things broken down really simple like this(otherwise I’m too dumb to comprehend haha) I come to some “conclusions”. The powerlifters train for strength and eat for size to inrease strength, carry more muscle and usually more fat. The bodybuilders train for looks, and attack that in whatever fashion they deem most appropriate and eat to look good and are usually pretty lean. The exception to this is when they take time away from the spotlight(if they are professional or top amateur) aren’t afraid to get a little chunky if necessary but certainely not “fat”, and progress significantly with the weights.
What does that sound like to you? To me an off season bodbyuilder sounds exactly like a powerlifter. Hmmm now we are getting somewhere. So let’s say someone trained like an off season bodybuilder/powerlifter(probably for higher reps though) dieted like an off season bodybuilder(a smart one), but did cardio like a pre contest bodybuilder, then we might have something interesting going on.
Look at the pros who make big time changes in their stage weight over a career. I’m not saying who’s the best(although some are) I’m saying who makes changes. Everyone loves Dexter Jacksons physique as do I, but I certainely wouldn’t follow his training and dieting strategy because he’s been roughly the same for many years. Someone like Dorian Yates however is a different story. He didn’t do 50 guest poses a year, he went away to his dungeon gym and trained with heavrer and heavier weights and ate the food necessary to build himself up and showed up bigger and badder for years after turning pro and likely would have continued if injury hadn’t shortened his career. One of those guys has a bunch of Sandows on his mantle and the other doesn’t, I don’t think many would argue that Dorian did more drugs or had better genetic. Those things I talked about above are what I see as the major differences.
[/quote]
Completely agree. Great post.