post workout some starchy carbs perhaps? sweet potato/yams/rice/pasta? your protein count is good, your I know some people wont agree with me but you need good starchy carbs when your gaining. and throw in a real egg or 2 with breaky, cant go wrong with real eggs. Do you have peri/post workout shakes?
ironjoe: the only protein shakes I have is straight after training, and a second one in the evening by itself.
Ive just spent the last 2 weeks debating/arguing/discussing the need for starcy carbs i nthe diet. the real experienced ones are saying, one small portion every 1-2 days, while the younger but still experienced ones are saying, have a large pizza every day, breakfast, have 6 slices of toast with your proteins + 3 bowls of rice for dinner with your proteins…
lol, im not advocating pizza and white rice here, im saying a small moderate amount of starchy carbs from good low GI sources is benificial for size gain, especially when your saying that your very low carb diet is not working. personally i have about 2oz ( like 1/2 cup dry) of brown rice with every other meal, or 5oz of sweet potatoes. I do not promote the “shut up and eat” mentality, this is just what works for me, and i thought i would pass it on.
[quote]akumaslair wrote:
ok…
this is my typical diet.
I do this roughly 12 days of the fortnight, sometimes on the weekend, I skip few meals.
Meal 1: 6 egg whites + herbal tea/juice + a bit of salad
Meal 2: Protein Shake within 15 minutes of training
Meal 3: 300-350g of chicken/Beef + salad/veges
Meal 4: 300-350g of chicken/Beef + salad/veges
Meal 5: Protein Shake
Meal 6: 300-350g of chicken/Beef + salad/veges OR bowl of cereal with milk/yoghurt depending on how I feel and what food is availalbe.
I don’t snack at all, so don’t eat chocolate/sweets very often, don’t drink the sugary softdrinks, the odd diet softdrink…
thats about it…[/quote]
Akumaslair, do you own a food scale? If so, then how much salad/veges do you eat during meals 1, 3, 4, and 6? If you don’t own a food scale, then how do you know that you’re eating 300-350g of chicken/beef?
Also, how much protein/calories do your shakes contain?
Your diet still doesn’t contain enough information to know for certain how many calories you’re eating.
Ok, I ll try my best
with the protein shakes, its a 35g scoop of Iso100 = roughly 33g-34g of protein.,
the meat,
I buy 1.3kg-1.4kg of either beef or chicken, split it into 4 portions and have it this way,
with the beef, I cut the fat off it, so it will reduce the overall weight slightly…
unforuntaely, i do not weigh the vegies…
[quote]akumaslair wrote:
Ok, I ll try my best
with the protein shakes, its a 35g scoop of Iso100 = roughly 33g-34g of protein.,
the meat,
I buy 1.3kg-1.4kg of either beef or chicken, split it into 4 portions and have it this way,
with the beef, I cut the fat off it, so it will reduce the overall weight slightly…
unforuntaely, i do not weigh the vegies…[/quote]
Ok, thanks.
Why do you cut the fat off the beef? You’re trying to gain weight aren’t you? Also, I’d recommend mixing the protein with milk (or even half and half) if you’re looking to gain weight.
As far as the meat goes, that’s not the most accurate method, but it’s probably close enough.
In regards to the veggies, I’d honestly suggest investing in a food scale. They’re fairly inexpensive and definitely worth the money if you’re serious about gaining weight.
correct me if I am wrong. seriously. let me know if what I am about to say is true, half true or simply wrong.
obviously I want to get big = lots of training + Lots of protein + lots of calories without the crap, eg high saturated fats, high amounts of sugar, high amounts of salt etc. etc.
obviously I want to gain lean muscle/weight and not blow up like a hippo.
that is why I have reduced/minimised the amount of starchy carbs and saturated fats…
the reason why I don’t mix shake with milk is because the first one Ihave for the day is immediately after tranining, and a few people have told me that it gets absorbed quicker with water which is what you want. and I have been told that the most the body can absorb proteinwise for one meal is 40g, so a 34g shake + lots of milk protein would be a bit of a waster…
you don’t need to weigh your veggies but you should buy a scale, you can get a nice one at walmart for about $18.I recommend a digital one for the sake of uber convenience. the weight of your meat changes when you cook it b/c it loses its water and some fat content.
the idea that the body can only handle 40gr of protein at a time is kind of an urban legend, no one knows who the hell said it, and becuase no one has proved it right or wrong. Secondly even if its mixed with milk your body will still absorb the whey quickly and start absorbing the casine in the milk just at a slower rate.
heres an easy idea, set your calorie intake a certain level, whatever you want, and keep it there for 2 weeks. if you dont gain weight, up it by 500cals/day. if you still dont gain weight, up it again. keep going until your gaining at a rate where you dont feel like your getting fatter, but you are gaining size. Just keep your protein intake high, moderate carbs and fat, and go for it.
ironjoe: Ive heard the term good and bad calories being thrown around alot.
am I correct in saying that a calorie, is generic and no such thing as brand eg the energy required to raise the temp of 1cm cubed of water by 1 degree or whatever it is .
so since its generic, a bad calroie being a generic unit of energy with lots of side affects, eg junk food, which will you give you the calories but the high sugar, high salt and high sat fats???
[quote]akumaslair wrote:
correct me if I am wrong. seriously. let me know if what I am about to say is true, half true or simply wrong.
obviously I want to get big = lots of training + Lots of protein + lots of calories without the crap, eg high saturated fats, high amounts of sugar, high amounts of salt etc. etc.
obviously I want to gain lean muscle/weight and not blow up like a hippo.
that is why I have reduced/minimised the amount of starchy carbs and saturated fats…
the reason why I don’t mix shake with milk is because the first one Ihave for the day is immediately after tranining, and a few people have told me that it gets absorbed quicker with water which is what you want. and I have been told that the most the body can absorb proteinwise for one meal is 40g, so a 34g shake + lots of milk protein would be a bit of a waster…[/quote]
fat isnt the enemy. Infact you need saturated fats too. Dont worry about some fat on meat or in milk. Mix the protein with milk, i understand it is better absobed with a little fat. If you really must be paranoid then at least add a couple of spoonfuls of olive oil in the mix.
ok… now Iam a bit confused…so what am I looking for in my situation
- INC protein
- INC Calories
- INC Compleax Carbs
- Minimal Simple Carbs
- Minimal Saturated Fats
- Minimal Sugars
- Minimal Sodium
is this about right???
[quote]Scott M wrote:
It’s hard to pinpoint where this mentality comes from. I see a problem in seeing only “after” pictures and no “befores” of bodybuilders. A thread a few days ago I posted a picture of Trey Brewer ar 18-19 years old with a 300 lb brute lineman type physique and then his 230ish on stage pictures. People only see that stage picture and don’t realize that it took that big time eating and heavy iron lifting that got him the 300 lb physique to have earned then 230 lb stage physique.
Lot’s of people want their physique today, or hell yesterday, and it’s hard to convince people that there the way to get there isn’t really sexy or flashy. Get really strong on big exercises, eat a lot, and that’s about it. That’s a pretty tough sell haha. Oh well some people get it and put in the effort. [/quote]
One of the hardest things to swallow for alot of pople who enter into this lifestyle. People in search of instant gratification are the people you’ll see in the gym for a month and then poof…they’ve given up.
[quote]akumaslair wrote:
ok…
this is my typical diet.
I do this roughly 12 days of the fortnight, sometimes on the weekend, I skip few meals.
Meal 1: 6 egg whites + herbal tea/juice + a bit of salad
Meal 2: Protein Shake within 15 minutes of training
Meal 3: 300-350g of chicken/Beef + salad/veges
Meal 4: 300-350g of chicken/Beef + salad/veges
Meal 5: Protein Shake
Meal 6: 300-350g of chicken/Beef + salad/veges OR bowl of cereal with milk/yoghurt depending on how I feel and what food is availalbe.
I don’t snack at all, so don’t eat chocolate/sweets very often, don’t drink the sugary softdrinks, the odd diet softdrink…
thats about it…[/quote]
Now we are getting somehwere, your diet looks like a precontest diet, and a brutal one at that. You look to be very low carb, lowish fat since you said you trim the fat off your beef, and only what I consider moderate protein.
The 40 grams of protein thing boggles my mind. I consider myself a pretty hard training young male that has a fairly efficent healthy protein utilizing body. There is NO WAY IN HELL I can only utilize the same amount of protein as a sedentary individual who eats 2-3 low protein meals a day, no way. Force your body to adapt to what you want it to be, muscle building fat burning machine. Your body is a stubborn little thing and can’t be coaxed or asked to change, it takes brute force with constant feeding to turn a 180 lb skinny fat person to a 240 lb beast.
If I was you I’d increase the protein to at approximately 4 grams/kilo of bodyweight. Double your protein shakes, increase the red meat slightly in each of the meals and you’ll get there easily. You need some fats and the way I prefer to do it is with olive oil and or nuts of your choice. Olive oil on your veggies, add a tbsp or two to your protein shakes, snack on a handful of nuts after your steak and veggies, very simple things. Carbs should be taken much higher around workouts. Proteins fats and veggies can be consumed for the majority of meals but protein and carbs are utilized very effectively after training. The body is a dry sponge after training, and what it wants is to be soaked glycogen(from carbs) and protein to begin the repair process, give it what it wants.
I know I’ve said this before, but I can’t help saying it again.
If someone is trying to gain then they need to FOCUS on gaining. Train and eat to gain and let the fat fall where it may within the limits of optimal gaining. In other words if you design your diet to avoid fat rather than gain muscle you will be looking in the mirror 10 years hence still wondering why you aren’t gaining. If you eat to gain you likely will gain some fat or at the very least not get any leaner unless you are fat to begin with.
This DOES NOT MEAN you have to become a jiggling pig to make optimal gains, but your focus is just plain wrong. How much fat you have to carry to make max gains is as individual as anything else. Eat and train to get bigger. When you are growing how you want, THAT’S how much fat you have to carry to make max gains, but concentrating on not gaining while trying to gain is… uuhhh… self defeating.
Ok
Thanks for your help everyone!! I really appreciate it… and if people could keep on responding I would be forever greatful
I have a problem now…
I have gained more knowledge then at the start but the only problem now is that I am now truly confused, about what I should be doing???
assuming the training side of my weight gain attempt is fine (I believe it is quite good at the moment), I think it may be the diet side that needs refining…
so… I understand the following diet wise. could people please tell me which numbers are wrong or need to be changed
-
I need a high level of protein roughly 1.5g per lb of bodyweight
-
The protein needs to be spread out,
-
I need to take a shake IMMEDIATELY after training
-
I don’t do aerobic cardio eg run 10kms as this will kill/reduce muscle, I do anaerobic cardio eg short sprints if I must do cardio, at present I do NO CARDIO whatsoever
-
I need to get a lot of calories… how much do I need, 4000 calories per day
-
I need to eat alot or as much as I Can of complex carbs… eg vegies, sweet potatos, brocolli, green veges etc. etc.
-
I should consume the protein shake after training with water for fastest absorption
-
I must keep starcy carbs(simple carbs) to an absolute minimum because they turn to fat. At present I eat roughly the equivalent of 2 slices of bread/1 bowl of rice, 2 out of 3 days, this is so to get the body not too used to the clean diet, as it may make me prone to catching a cold or sickness, ie I need a little bit of stress on the body to keep it on its toes
-
I need to have the odd single bad meal, every 2 -3 weeks, where I eat whatever I want and no matter how bad to keep the body from getting too used the strict diet. ie giving it a bit of shake up
-
I should minimise saturated fats as they will turn/go straight to fat, which will increase my bodyfat
-
I should also minimise simple sugars and sodium, as sugars lead to fat and sodium makes the body retain water.
-
the protein shake should be WPI and not WPC, as WPI is absorbed faster…One thing which has confused me is that my understanding of protein is that it is a generic qualityless item, ie there is no such thing as a good or a bad one, like height, if you are 6", then you are 6", there is no such thing as a bad or good 6". all the labels on the differnet protein brands are advertising "we have the best protein quality on the market, better then all of our competitors. I have been looking for the highest % WPI w/w and the cheapest one, but a few people have told me, you get what you pay for…
-
Is there such thing as a bad calorie…
if I ate fast food everyday 3 meals per day, say 2 chicken burgers + Fries, then according to the nutritional guides, that is alot of protein,+ alot of saturated fats + sugars, so what would be wrong with this approach, I am getting the protein+ calories, I only ask this is because in a few earlier posts, some have said to leave the fat on the meat, which is saturated fats!!
-
I take 2 spoons of olive oil per day to try and top up the calories as its relavitley low in saturated fats… however i would blow up if I drank say 1 bottle per day
-
Almost all foods have some degree of Sat Fats + sugars + sodium, so as I need to eat craploads more, obviously the intake will increase so for someone who is trying to gain, I shouldn’t be too concered with bodyfat as long as its reasonable, and trying to have low bodyfat in my case which has been around 15.5% peak at 13%, so aiming for below 15.5% is contradictory, ie its very difficult to GAIN weight while maintaining low BF due to the amount of food I am consuming.
-
It won;t happen overnight, this is a longterm plan!
your getting it!
are you saying that EVERY point is correct…
I don’t think I can be that good, can i???
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
binge drinking every 2 weeks is still too much drinking.
Not really, unless you are training for a show. That won’t derail your efforts. Alcohol isn’t that bad for you.
Life’s about balance, there’s more to life than lifting and eating, but not much more. >>>[/quote]
I tried real hard, but I cannot let this stand. Alcohol consumed in anything over very small widely spaced doses IS, in no uncertain terms and indisputably that bad for you and becomes worse real quick the more you drink. Your entire endocrine system, among other things is in wide eyed, gasping, “please heal me” mode for days after a bender.
If you wanna drink, go ahead, but you are lying to yourself if you do not believe is is harming your progress, not to mention health in general.