[quote]PB Andy wrote:
Most Spec Ops are generally equal in badassery.[/quote]
agreed.
the only difference is the name of branch that’s worn on the left side of their duty uniform
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
SEALs are hands down the most hardcore, advanced, mentally/physically tough men on the planet.
Anybody who doesn’t believe that, go out and read “Lone Survivor”, then get back to me.[/quote]
Great book. My son recommended it and my wife just started it.
Holy Mac would never make SEALs.
I heard in one of their tests, they make you go to a planet fitness and set off the lunk alarm, while video taping.
He’d probably faint.
[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
Holy Mac would never make SEALs.
I heard in one of their tests, they make you go to a planet fitness and set off the lunk alarm, while video taping.
He’d probably faint.[/quote]
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
SEALs are hands down the most hardcore, advanced, mentally/physically tough men on the planet.
Anybody who doesn’t believe that, go out and read “Lone Survivor”, then get back to me.[/quote]
Uhh…no.
I have read Lone Survivor. Marcus Luttrell is one tough guy, no doubt. But that book hardly proves that all SEAL’s are badass.
How about you go read “Not a Good Day to Die” by Sean Naylor. You’ll get a good glimpse at how the rest of the Special Ops community really views Navy SEAL’s (over rated). You’ll get to read about how one of them wanted to quit a mission because he was too cold, and had to get dragged along with the rest of the guys on the mission. Plus, you’ll get to read about Delta operators (or CAG, if you prefer), who are the ultimate in professional soldiers.
The general consensus is that SEAL’s can PT their asses off…no doubt about it. Very tough guys. But…operationally speaking…they tend to be somewhat less than impressive.
[quote]mapwhap wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
SEALs are hands down the most hardcore, advanced, mentally/physically tough men on the planet.
Anybody who doesn’t believe that, go out and read “Lone Survivor”, then get back to me.[/quote]
Uhh…no.
I have read Lone Survivor. Marcus Luttrell is one tough guy, no doubt. But that book hardly proves that all SEAL’s are badass.
How about you go read “Not a Good Day to Die” by Sean Naylor. You’ll get a good glimpse at how the rest of the Special Ops community really views Navy SEAL’s (over rated). You’ll get to read about how one of them wanted to quit a mission because he was too cold, and had to get dragged along with the rest of the guys on the mission. Plus, you’ll get to read about Delta operators (or CAG, if you prefer), who are the ultimate in professional soldiers.
The general consensus is that SEAL’s can PT their asses off…no doubt about it. Very tough guys. But…operationally speaking…they tend to be somewhat less than impressive.[/quote]
and what do you do for a living that you would know this? You read it in a book or you actually lived it by being part of the community yourself? because if you’re basing your comment off of a book that you read then that was a very ignorant statement
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]mapwhap wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
SEALs are hands down the most hardcore, advanced, mentally/physically tough men on the planet.
Anybody who doesn’t believe that, go out and read “Lone Survivor”, then get back to me.[/quote]
Uhh…no.
I have read Lone Survivor. Marcus Luttrell is one tough guy, no doubt. But that book hardly proves that all SEAL’s are badass.
How about you go read “Not a Good Day to Die” by Sean Naylor. You’ll get a good glimpse at how the rest of the Special Ops community really views Navy SEAL’s (over rated). You’ll get to read about how one of them wanted to quit a mission because he was too cold, and had to get dragged along with the rest of the guys on the mission. Plus, you’ll get to read about Delta operators (or CAG, if you prefer), who are the ultimate in professional soldiers.
The general consensus is that SEAL’s can PT their asses off…no doubt about it. Very tough guys. But…operationally speaking…they tend to be somewhat less than impressive.[/quote]
and what do you do for a living that you would know this? You read it in a book or you actually lived it by being part of the community yourself? because if you’re basing your comment off of a book that you read then that was a very ignorant statement[/quote]
My thoughts as well.
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]mapwhap wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
SEALs are hands down the most hardcore, advanced, mentally/physically tough men on the planet.
Anybody who doesn’t believe that, go out and read “Lone Survivor”, then get back to me.[/quote]
Uhh…no.
I have read Lone Survivor. Marcus Luttrell is one tough guy, no doubt. But that book hardly proves that all SEAL’s are badass.
How about you go read “Not a Good Day to Die” by Sean Naylor. You’ll get a good glimpse at how the rest of the Special Ops community really views Navy SEAL’s (over rated). You’ll get to read about how one of them wanted to quit a mission because he was too cold, and had to get dragged along with the rest of the guys on the mission. Plus, you’ll get to read about Delta operators (or CAG, if you prefer), who are the ultimate in professional soldiers.
The general consensus is that SEAL’s can PT their asses off…no doubt about it. Very tough guys. But…operationally speaking…they tend to be somewhat less than impressive.[/quote]
and what do you do for a living that you would know this? You read it in a book or you actually lived it by being part of the community yourself? because if you’re basing your comment off of a book that you read then that was a very ignorant statement[/quote]
My thoughts as well.[/quote]
x2… Anyone who thinks SEALs are all PT and not much mission success has not read much history. Read about SEAL Teams in Vietnam as a very raw unit wreaking all kinds of havoc. Or more recently stemming the Oil for Weapons program before the start of the Iraq War.
[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]mapwhap wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
SEALs are hands down the most hardcore, advanced, mentally/physically tough men on the planet.
Anybody who doesn’t believe that, go out and read “Lone Survivor”, then get back to me.[/quote]
Uhh…no.
I have read Lone Survivor. Marcus Luttrell is one tough guy, no doubt. But that book hardly proves that all SEAL’s are badass.
How about you go read “Not a Good Day to Die” by Sean Naylor. You’ll get a good glimpse at how the rest of the Special Ops community really views Navy SEAL’s (over rated). You’ll get to read about how one of them wanted to quit a mission because he was too cold, and had to get dragged along with the rest of the guys on the mission. Plus, you’ll get to read about Delta operators (or CAG, if you prefer), who are the ultimate in professional soldiers.
The general consensus is that SEAL’s can PT their asses off…no doubt about it. Very tough guys. But…operationally speaking…they tend to be somewhat less than impressive.[/quote]
and what do you do for a living that you would know this? You read it in a book or you actually lived it by being part of the community yourself? because if you’re basing your comment off of a book that you read then that was a very ignorant statement[/quote]
My thoughts as well.[/quote]
x2… Anyone who thinks SEALs are all PT and not much mission success has not read much history. Read about SEAL Teams in Vietnam as a very raw unit wreaking all kinds of havoc. Or more recently stemming the Oil for Weapons program before the start of the Iraq War.[/quote]
Any book recommendations on those subjects? I’ve read a few and would like to read some more
Like I said, read “Lone Survivor”.
I find it ironic that people who are not in the community and only know what they read in a book or because they “knew a guy” are bashing mapwhap because he stated an opinion that he read in a book.
“Lone Survivor” is a textbook on poor planning.
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Like I said, read “Lone Survivor”.[/quote]
I’ve already read it twice.
[quote]tommytoughnuts wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Like I said, read “Lone Survivor”.[/quote]
I’ve already read it twice. [/quote]
AGAIN, third times a charm.
[quote]sjoconn wrote:
I find it ironic that people who are not in the community and only know what they read in a book or because they “knew a guy” are bashing mapwhap because he stated an opinion that he read in a book.
“Lone Survivor” is a textbook on poor planning.[/quote]
I’m gonna have to agree, sadly. There are too many talking heads in this thread claiming that SEAL’s are the very best. They are overrated. My gf’s stepfather was in the seal pipeline before being yanked out to go to aircraft mechanic school and still talks about how SEAL’s trump all others-WTF? His bloodclotting was a factor in that too. Va Bch was full of them while I visited and I saw one across the street from him who owns 38 firearms, unlike combat infantrymen they can’t do with just 1. Not to mention that the majority of them that think they can handle Ranger school washout due to a lack of infantry skills and mindset. It is the military’s #1 leadership course afterall…
We’ve already seen and heard enough from a pathetic kid who claims to be a Poolee. Several military members have PM’d me on here laughing at the twat. Truth is you’re a fratboy who drinks too much and talks too damn much. You keep on being a poolee, I’ll be the one leaving you to die on the battlefield…
I could go on, but there are several blatantly obvious know-it-alls on here who would more than likely lie saying “everything on my dd214 is top-secret so it can’t be listed…” and other stuff about how you do 300 lbs step-ups for multiple sets of 12…
I could name others but that would be a waste of time as they are blatantly obvious. These pathetic kids need to sign their name in black ink on the dotted line.
I’d be willing to bet at least 90% of the people who’ve participated in this thread play the monthly game called “my MMA shirt is more tough than your MMA shirt” at their favorite tough guy bar during UFC. I now feel “dumber” for having posted in this thread.
Chuck Norris still kicks all of their asses…
Just sayin’…
[quote]TheGreatDillion wrote:
I’d be willing to bet at least 90% of the people who’ve participated in this thread play the monthly game called “my MMA shirt is more tough than your MMA shirt” at their favorite tough guy bar during UFC. I now feel “dumber” for having posted in this thread.[/quote]
Do me a favor, don’t equate wanna be MMA DB’s to the spec ops community.
As for which branch is better, none of them. Too much of a broad generalization. It boils down to each individual unit. Some Reconnaissance units are better than others I’m sure the the same thing holds true in the other branches.
For the record, my opinion on SEALS, is based on my experiences having worked with a Special Forces ODA in the Republic of Korea for an extended period, and having been exposed to SEALS (and their operational capabilities) during a training rotation they completed at a MOUT site at Fort Hood where I was acting as the NCOIC for the site.
I found them to be far more arrogant than their SF counterparts, yet not as capable.
It has been further backed up by numerous discussions I have had with members of the Army Special Forces who I remain friends with, and by reading and research.
You will note that my original comment was that they are PHYSICALLY very tough. I complimented them on that, and I still do. However, OPERATIONALLY, they have suffered a number of catastrophic losses attempting to conduct operations for which they were ill prepared. Testosterone and the ability to run and swim all day DO NOT equal operational success.
As for the book Lone Survivior…that book is exactly what someone stated it was earlier…a textbook on poor planning and the resulting operational failure. If you want to actually read something EDUCATIONAL, read the After Action Review of that operation. And let’s face facts here…even Marcus Luttrell has to admit that he is only alive because he encountered a “friendly” group of Afghans who were willing to shelter him. It wasn’t because his E&E plan was working the way it was supposed to.
If people want to take issue with my opinion on SEALS, that’s fine. The fact that I’m not one does not mean that I am incapable of making accurate observations. I may not be tabbed out, but I’ve done enough training and work with spec ops groups to know what’s what. My statement stands. VERY physically tough guys, with a relatively poor operational record.
[quote]mapwhap wrote:
For the record, my opinion on SEALS, is based on my experiences having worked with a Special Forces ODA in the Republic of Korea for an extended period, and having been exposed to SEALS (and their operational capabilities) during a training rotation they completed at a MOUT site at Fort Hood where I was acting as the NCOIC for the site.
I found them to be far more arrogant than their SF counterparts, yet not as capable.
It has been further backed up by numerous discussions I have had with members of the Army Special Forces who I remain friends with, and by reading and research.
You will note that my original comment was that they are PHYSICALLY very tough. I complimented them on that, and I still do. However, OPERATIONALLY, they have suffered a number of catastrophic losses attempting to conduct operations for which they were ill prepared. Testosterone and the ability to run and swim all day DO NOT equal operational success.
As for the book Lone Survivior…that book is exactly what someone stated it was earlier…a textbook on poor planning and the resulting operational failure. If you want to actually read something EDUCATIONAL, read the After Action Review of that operation. And let’s face facts here…even Marcus Luttrell has to admit that he is only alive because he encountered a “friendly” group of Afghans who were willing to shelter him. It wasn’t because his E&E plan was working the way it was supposed to.
If people want to take issue with my opinion on SEALS, that’s fine. The fact that I’m not one does not mean that I am incapable of making accurate observations. I may not be tabbed out, but I’ve done enough training and work with spec ops groups to know what’s what. My statement stands. VERY physically tough guys, with a relatively poor operational record.
[/quote]
Guess when I assume stuff I am wrong, my bad. You certainly have more experience than I.
I also wanted to add this…when it comes down to what most people consider to be “special operations”, they are refering to Direct Action missions. This is only ONE skill in a vast array of capabilities that any special operations unit must maintain.
From a purely operational stand point, Direct Action missions (and the Close Quarters Battle skills they encompass) are all very similar. Speaking from my experience in both the Army and here in the police world, the bottom line is that there are only so many ways to clear a room. Extrapolate that to a team concept, and there are only so many ways to clear a building.
The tricky part is, and always has been, getting on target to execute those CQB skills. No matter who it is (SF, Delta, SEALS, Marine Recon, etc…) they are all at a VERY high level in the CQB arena. Comparing them at that level is nonsense. They are all excellent…some just get to practice it more than others. Infiltration to (and exfiltration from) the target is MAINLY where these units differ.
I would venture to say that few compare to SEALS capabilities in the water. Oil rig take downs, boat take downs, etc…that’s where they excel. And well they should! They’re Navy…the water is where they operate.
However, the Army and Marines excel on dry land…and even THEY specialize. Not every group can do every thing. Some teams specialize in mountain work, some in jungle work, deserts, urban areas, etc.
Where SEALS tend to fail is when they try to operate too far out of their specialty. By no means am I saying they are abject failures…I am simply stating that when they exceed their operational capabilities, they tend to execute poorly. So does any group. However, SEALS have a habit of doing it, cos not a whole lot takes place on the water. They want to get into the action…and I don’t blame them. They are special warfare operators, and they want to go get some. And I’m glad they do.
BUT, that doesn’t mean I’m going to sit here and cup their balls cos they are Navy SEALS like some of you. I call it like I see it. And that’s how I see it.