Truth About Global Warming

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]vroom wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Its a religion. Since lots of folks don’t believe in God any longer, and humans have a wired in need to worship something, the environmentalist whackos have latched onto the Mother Earth concept. The Great Meltdown is the equivalent of the Apocalypse, with Hillary Clinton as the Whore of Babylon.

What the fuck are you babbling about now?

I’m afraid, as usual, you have it somewhat backwards. The “religion” is that we can do anything we like, as long as it is under freedom, for the pursuit of profit, and commit no wrong.

While there may certainly be enviro-whackos out there, perhaps they balance the money-whackos who believe more of everything is better?

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if we are accelerating natural events greatly, then we are going to cause harm and stress to the environment (and ourselves). Now, you may or may not care, but there is certainly a lot of precedent for humans fucking things up by making what were assumed to be safe chemicals, processes and so forth.

So, the real question is, even if it is a natural warming period, are we accelerating it greatly? Shit, if you actually read the article above, even it certainly doesn’t support the view that humans aren’t heavily involved.

Like Beowolf said, pollution = bad. What else do we need to know? Unfortunately, the religions of greed and consumerism conflict with this issue, don’t they?[/quote]

Was something I wrote unclear? I read it again and the point is quite simple: Lib tree-huggers need something to worship. Today, its ‘oh so cool!’ to worship the Environment. Why, its so important, Hillary is willing to consfiscate all profits, destroy entire industries about which she knows nothing, all in the interests of saving the polar bears.

Okay, let’s suppose global warming is happening. So what? It means that Canadian farms will produce more warm-weather crops, hence becoming more valuable. People who live by the ocean will have to migrate. Are these BAD things? No. I know that humans are wired for fear of CHANGE, but get used to it. Embrace it!

You want a perfect heaven, where food falls into your mouth, nothing ever changes, everyone has a job, and everyone is happy. What a crock! Life is a battle to the death, with each other and with nature. Fight or roll over and die.

22

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

Good article. In spite of the media and political organizations (IPCC is a UN group) reports the science is not clear. The facts are not in.

It appears to be more about politics and money.

[/quote]

im probably going to get flamed for this but i think that in part there is some geopolitical pressure from continental europe to slow economic growth in the americas, india and china as to shift some of the economic strength back to the EU.

23

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Shoebolt wrote:

Lol good post for your knowledge base I guess. But still not useful. Scientists demand the action that they do because they see the situation in a way that is more appropriate for the problem presented. Global warming is a scientific and humanitarian issue, not a political one (No body will give a rats ass about profits by energy companies when giant, violent storms start engulfing the Atlantic). Scientists see the long term effects and realize the need for a solution that builds on the so-called dreams you mention.

But you miss the point and demonstrate your naivete yet again. You can tell me it isn’t a political issue all you want, but you want a change in policy, so it has to be a political issue. We aren’t ruled by a panel of scientists who act as god-kings - if we want a change in policy, we must get consensus from a number of people who control policy and, don’t forget, the people who will live underneath it.

My point is that there are better ways to get the policy moving more quickly w/r/t environmental concerns. The objective truth of global warming has become about as real as a unicorn because the science cannot be de-politicized - and that goes for your supposedly above-politics scientists as much as oil company CEOs.

With that reality in mind - and your gullibility aside - we must find a way to advance the ball of our environmental goals given the trade-offs that we face. I urge that we can get a better environment by focusing on the substantial - let’s decrease emissions to cut air pollution for health reasons, etc. - rather than the abstract - let’s cut emissions because we semi-fear a global catastrophe that may or may not be a fantasy.[/quote]

I agree whole-heartedly. People have forgotten that their are OTHER reasons besides global warming to clean up the environment.

Unfortunately, the people who claim Global Warming as BS, are also the same fuckers who don’t want to spend the money to clean up what we’ve shat on (pardon my French).

Who gives a shit if global warming is false? We should still be lowering our emission levels. Do you want NYC to look like Hong Kong or Beijing? You can’t see the building across from yours from a window in Beijing, because of the massive pollution.

So to all those who dislike global warming, why do you care so much? Do you like pollution? Are you just upset that something you think is wrong is being touted as right? Are you still FOR environmental protection and legislation?

24

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
The ignorance of some people on the board is astounding.

Saddam had WMDs. Evolutions is not a fact. Global warming has nothing to do with humanity polluting the earth.

This is as up to date and as factual and scientific as you can get.
Download the IPCC Report from the link
http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf[/quote]

… maybe you need to read it again.

25

[quote]J.Boogie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

Good article. In spite of the media and political organizations (IPCC is a UN group) reports the science is not clear. The facts are not in.

It appears to be more about politics and money.

im probably going to get flamed for this but i think that in part there is some geopolitical pressure from continental europe to slow economic growth in the americas, india and china as to shift some of the economic strength back to the EU.[/quote]

Absolutely. And the UN wants the developed countries to fund the undeveloped by the purchase of carbon dioxide credits.

26

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Okay, let’s suppose global warming is happening. So what? It means that Canadian farms will produce more warm-weather crops, hence becoming more valuable. People who live by the ocean will have to migrate. Are these BAD things? No. I know that humans are wired for fear of CHANGE, but get used to it. Embrace it!

You want a perfect heaven, where food falls into your mouth, nothing ever changes, everyone has a job, and everyone is happy. What a crock! Life is a battle to the death, with each other and with nature. Fight or roll over and die.[/quote]

That is exactly what is going to hapen Wacko.

We are all going to die. The plankton in the ocean are dying. They are the main source of food for all marine animals.

We have already seen the consequences of that:

http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/21917/story.htm

“Masses of plankton, dying as global warming heats up the waters off the Seychelles, are threatening marine life in the Indian Ocean tourist haven, a government official said on Tuesday.”

There go the fucking fish. Now what do we eat? You also forget that plankton are like the plants of the sea. They photosyntheisze. We kill the plankton, they do not do phtosyntheisis anymore.

I’ll give you a shiny gold star if you tell me what photosynthesis does.

Answer: Converts Carbon Dioxide into Oxygen. The remaining carbon gets used by the organism.

This causes even MORE heating of the atmosphere as CO2 levels continue to build.

Let’s see what else happens because of this warm climate.

Oh I KNOW! People DIE because of drought. No water, no life.

http://www.wwf.org.au/news/n36/

The Aussies are going to RECYCLE WATER. Sewage water because there is the worst drought on record in Australia.

I’ll give you another Gold Star if you can tell me that the drought was caused by the changing wind patterns in the area.

Oh damn. I just gave away the answer. No gold star for you.

Let’s see what else:

Oh I know! Antarctica melting! That’s gonna kill alot of people when the sea level rises somwhere around 20metres or so. And of course when greenland melts. Because that is also a massive ice sheet.

Oh what else?

I know! WORSE HURRICANES… and more of them.

As the oceans heat up the severuty of hurricanes increases. We are already getting wacky hurricanes all over the place. Germany, Britain were both hit by hurricanes. Hmmm…

And don’t forget the Hurricanes in florida getting worse evey year because of the warming waters. I wonder how much stronger Katrina II will be?

[quote]
Okay, let’s suppose global warming is happening. So what? It means that Canadian farms will produce more warm-weather crops, hence becoming more valuable.[/quote]

Yeah… you’re completely right. I’m so looking forwad to eating Oranges all year round. I wonder how much hotter its gonna get for you guys down there then?

27

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
…

So to all those who dislike global warming, why do you care so much? Do you like pollution? Are you just upset that something you think is wrong is being touted as right? Are you still FOR environmental protection and legislation?[/quote]

I am a chemical engineer and have worked in the environmental field for over 12 years.

We should be spending our money minimizing heavy metals emitted when we burn coal.

We should be spending our money cleaning our waterways. We have a handle on the basic organic stuff but there is a lot of work to be done on phosphorus and nitrogen based
“nutrients”.

We should minimize and eventually eliminate the trading of sulphur credits. It was a good idea at the time but it’s time is long over.

Worrying about CO2 when we are emitting these poisons is counter-productive.

28

[quote]J.Boogie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

Good article. In spite of the media and political organizations (IPCC is a UN group) reports the science is not clear. The facts are not in.

It appears to be more about politics and money.

im probably going to get flamed for this but i think that in part there is some geopolitical pressure from continental europe to slow economic growth in the americas, india and china as to shift some of the economic strength back to the EU.[/quote]

I wouldn’t flame what you said. No one here believes that any politician really gives a shit about the environment. They just want to use it in a united attack on the intelligent and ambitious among us, to control and harness them. Politicians are people who are unable to create, so they take perverse joy in destruction. Why do you think the environmental movement was started in the first place? To protect baby seals and polar bears? To stop pollution? LOL!

Its all about power. None of them really want to clean up the environment or stop global warming. Those are simply their stepping stones to power.

29

[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
…
I know! WORSE HURRICANES… and more of them.

As the oceans heat up the severuty of hurricanes increases. We are already getting wacky hurricanes all over the place. Germany, Britain were both hit by hurricanes. Hmmm…

And don’t forget the Hurricanes in florida getting worse evey year because of the warming waters. I wonder how much stronger Katrina II will be?
…[/quote]

It is this kind of alarmist rhetoric that makes me a global warming cynic.

It is almost as if global warming can not stand on it’s own so they have to fabricate horror stories.

Hurricanes were supposed to be devastating in 2006 because of global warming but it didn’t happen. Why not? The leading hurricane experts say because the tie between global warming and hurricanes is false.

I suggest you go back to j boogies link and read all the articles. They are pretty short and very interesting.

One touches on this very subject.

I do not know the reality of global warming but I do know that the alarmists are spreading bad information and it pisses me off.

30

[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Okay, let’s suppose global warming is happening. So what? It means that Canadian farms will produce more warm-weather crops, hence becoming more valuable. People who live by the ocean will have to migrate. Are these BAD things? No. I know that humans are wired for fear of CHANGE, but get used to it. Embrace it!

You want a perfect heaven, where food falls into your mouth, nothing ever changes, everyone has a job, and everyone is happy. What a crock! Life is a battle to the death, with each other and with nature. Fight or roll over and die.

That is exactly what is going to hapen Wacko.

We are all going to die. The plankton in the ocean are dying. They are the main source of food for all marine animals.

We have already seen the consequences of that:

http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/21917/story.htm

“Masses of plankton, dying as global warming heats up the waters off the Seychelles, are threatening marine life in the Indian Ocean tourist haven, a government official said on Tuesday.”

There go the fucking fish. Now what do we eat? You also forget that plankton are like the plants of the sea. They photosyntheisze. We kill the plankton, they do not do phtosyntheisis anymore.

I’ll give you a shiny gold star if you tell me what photosynthesis does.

Answer: Converts Carbon Dioxide into Oxygen. The remaining carbon gets used by the organism.

This causes even MORE heating of the atmosphere as CO2 levels continue to build.

Let’s see what else happens because of this warm climate.

Oh I KNOW! People DIE because of drought. No water, no life.

http://www.wwf.org.au/news/n36/

The Aussies are going to RECYCLE WATER. Sewage water because there is the worst drought on record in Australia.

I’ll give you another Gold Star if you can tell me that the drought was caused by the changing wind patterns in the area.

Oh damn. I just gave away the answer. No gold star for you.

Let’s see what else:

Oh I know! Antarctica melting! That’s gonna kill alot of people when the sea level rises somwhere around 20metres or so. And of course when greenland melts. Because that is also a massive ice sheet.

Oh what else?

I know! WORSE HURRICANES… and more of them.

As the oceans heat up the severuty of hurricanes increases. We are already getting wacky hurricanes all over the place. Germany, Britain were both hit by hurricanes. Hmmm…

And don’t forget the Hurricanes in florida getting worse evey year because of the warming waters. I wonder how much stronger Katrina II will be?

Okay, let’s suppose global warming is happening. So what? It means that Canadian farms will produce more warm-weather crops, hence becoming more valuable.

Yeah… you’re completely right. I’m so looking forwad to eating Oranges all year round. I wonder how much hotter its gonna get for you guys down there then?[/quote]

See my post about Environmentalism as a religion. You are a ‘Fundie’.

Anything to leash the mind of man, eh, bro? You honestly think that this earth, which undergoes profound changes continually, is just going to swallow us up and spit us out? “Yeah man, it’s like…Greenland’s going to fucking melt, man! And hurricanes will kill everyone in Britain, man!! We’re all gunna fuckin’ die, man!!!”

ROFLMAO!!!

31

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
…

So to all those who dislike global warming, why do you care so much? Do you like pollution? Are you just upset that something you think is wrong is being touted as right? Are you still FOR environmental protection and legislation?

I am a chemical engineer and have worked in the environmental field for over 12 years.

We should be spending our money minimizing heavy metals emitted when we burn coal.

We should be spending our money cleaning our waterways. We have a handle on the basic organic stuff but there is a lot of work to be done on phosphorus and nitrogen based
“nutrients”.

We should minimize and eventually eliminate the trading of sulfur credits. It was a good idea at the time but it’s time is long over.

Worrying about CO2 when we are emitting these poisons is counter-productive.[/quote]

I can respect that. But the people who are usually spouting that GW is BS also usually give the impression that that means all environmental legislation is stupid.
It’s not like anti-GW activist go around saying what we should be doing for OTHER problems.

I just feel like most of the people who denounce Global Warming are those who either feel like being contrary, or don’t want to stop using SUVs.

I’d like to direct a question at HeadHunter:

What environmental legislation do you approve of? Obviously you don’t give a shit about CO2 levels, but what do you think SHOULD be done by the government to protect the environment.

32

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
…

I just feel like most of the people who denounce Global Warming are those who either feel like being contrary, or don’t want to stop using SUVs.

…
[/quote]

There is certainly some of that. I personally think the SUV becoming the normal vehicle for commuters and soccer moms is a horrible thing.

33

[quote]Beowolf wrote:

What environmental legislation do you approve of? Obviously you don’t give a shit about CO2 levels, but what do you think SHOULD be done by the government to protect the environment.[/quote]

Can’t speak for HH, but 600+ scientists contribute to a panel on climate change that costs the UN millions each year? At the very least, if they wanted to be taken more seriously, they could quite easily publish their opinions reviewer and politic free without the UN. If every one of those scientists were as terrified of the future of global warming as brucevangeorge is, the IPCC would dissolve tomorrow and everyone of them would be working for Ford or Honda or Exelon to build nuclear reactors or cars that run on water instead of running around screaming about the falling sky. Unless they’re more interested in attracting attention/money or telling people what to do.

The Chicago heat wave of 1995 is one of the worst weather-related disasters in history. The solution to the problem wasn’t to cool down the globe, it was public air conditioning stations, circulating fan and AC donation, as well as advisory warnings. On top of that, people survived previous heat waves because they tended to spend more time outdoors or at least open their windows (there was less crime) and take care of each other. A hell of a lot easier and pays a lot more dividends than not driving and leaving my furnace off in the cold.

IMO, government should liberate people, not oppress them. Fund research for power generation, fund research into actively cooling the globe (if necessary), fund methods of mitigation (again, if necessary). Taking my tax dollars to provide me cheaper and cleaner energy or less crime and air conditioned libraries is one thing, taking them to repress me because a think tank funded by an international organization that is beholden to none of my interests is quite another.

I’d be interested to know how much less energy and CO2 the average IPCC scientist and the associate reviewer consumes relative to a reasonable respective average. I’m damn sure most of the rest of the UN is in the upper 99th percentile for energy consumption/CO2 production.

34

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
…

So to all those who dislike global warming, why do you care so much? Do you like pollution? Are you just upset that something you think is wrong is being touted as right? Are you still FOR environmental protection and legislation?

I am a chemical engineer and have worked in the environmental field for over 12 years.

We should be spending our money minimizing heavy metals emitted when we burn coal.

We should be spending our money cleaning our waterways. We have a handle on the basic organic stuff but there is a lot of work to be done on phosphorus and nitrogen based
“nutrients”.

We should minimize and eventually eliminate the trading of sulfur credits. It was a good idea at the time but it’s time is long over.

Worrying about CO2 when we are emitting these poisons is counter-productive.

I can respect that. But the people who are usually spouting that GW is BS also usually give the impression that that means all environmental legislation is stupid.
It’s not like anti-GW activist go around saying what we should be doing for OTHER problems.

I just feel like most of the people who denounce Global Warming are those who either feel like being contrary, or don’t want to stop using SUVs.

I’d like to direct a question at HeadHunter:

What environmental legislation do you approve of? Obviously you don’t give a shit about CO2 levels, but what do you think SHOULD be done by the government to protect the environment.
[/quote]

None, excepting where someone violates someone else’s property rights, such as dumping waste on someone else’s property.

Now a question for Beowolf: Why do you trust government so much? Like…with Katrina? You expect bureaucrats to protect you? LOL! They have no interest in protecting you.

How about giving freedom and free markets a chance instead?

35

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
See my post about Environmentalism as a religion. You are a ‘Fundie’.
[/quote]

Nope. I?m Christian.

No. The environmental changes are just going to destabilize economies all over the world, and cause VERY expensive damage to everything.

Look at New Orleans. Lots of people survived… but under what conditions? Everything was ruined.

36

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Hurricanes were supposed to be devastating in 2006 because of global warming but it didn’t happen. Why not? The leading hurricane experts say because the tie between global warming and hurricanes is false.

I suggest you go back to j boogies link and read all the articles. They are pretty short and very interesting.
[/quote]

Hurricanes 101:

http://www.redcross.org/news/ds/hurricanes/010524ABCs.html

Tropical storm and hurricane prediction probably never will be an exact science, but the reasons for storm formation are well understood by the scientific community. There are several elements that?when combined at the “right” amount of time and under the “right” conditions?will create a hurricane, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association (NOAA).

The beginning of life for any hurricane is a pre-existing tropical disturbance?an area of low atmospheric pressure in the air over the tropical Atlantic Ocean near Carribean islands, such as Bermuda and the Bahamas.

Ingredients
A hurricane starts with a tropical disturbance.

The warmth and moisture of the ocean during late summer and early fall months (when ocean waters reach their highest temperatures) energizes the pre-storm conditions and leads to thunderstorms.

If thunderstorms persist and winds pick up to 40 miles per hour, the tropical disturbance officially becomes a tropical storm. At this point, the National Hurricane Center names the storm, working from a pre-determined list of names that is recycled every six years. Meteorologists all over the country know to keep a close eye on the now-named storm, although many tropical storms weaken and die before becoming hurricanes.

End of excerpt.

And yeah. I will read those links Zap. Just for the hell of it.

37

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
None, excepting where someone violates someone else’s property rights, such as dumping waste on someone else’s property.
[/quote]

Okay. Now lets take that a step further.

Suppose a cheap car manufacturing plant opens up in your town. Think ford or something chinese brand.

Then they start producing the product but the fuckers don?t install filters in their smokestacks and all that shit that comes out of the factory basically covers the town and starts to pollute the freshwater supply.

Now what? What the fuck do YOU do?

38

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I suggest you go back to j boogies link and read all the articles. They are pretty short and very interesting.
[/quote]

Can?t find the link. <j.<boogie has one very short post on this thread that is link-less.

39

[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
And don’t forget the Hurricanes in florida getting worse evey year because of the warming waters. I wonder how much stronger Katrina II will be?
[/quote]

This is hilarious!

I live in Florida. This statement is pure crap. It just isn’t happening.

40

[quote]Shoebolt wrote:
yorik wrote:
Thousands (millions?) of years ago the earth cooled down enough to cause several ice ages, each time warming up again far enough to melt all the ice, all without human intervention.

Given all the creationists out there who keep shouting “evolution is just a theory”, we need corresponding people to shout “human caused global warming is just a theory!”

Theory or not, human caused global warming is a possibility. A definite possibility. We have a chance to take actions now to minimize the consequences in the future, and I think it’s a great idea. By the time it’s proven it will be too late. Just don’t tell me we need to take action because it’s a proven fact. It’s not proven yet. It’s a possibility only and we need to moderate our reaction to it as such.

All right, I’m off the soap box now.

WOW. Do you have scientific fact to back that up bro? Do you understand why the Earth’s temperature fluctuates every 10,000 years or so? And by the way, emphasis on the 10,000 years. [/quote]

Well, can you explain the entire science of archaeo-climatology? So you don’t have any facts either…

As they say on Wikipedia…“Citation needed”. In other words, show your references.

For all you know, there could have been thousands of equivalent ten year high/low fluctuations back and forth during those 100,000 years yielding the net effect at the end. Nobody knows. Nobody.

There’s a huge difference between common sense and science. Anybody with an ounce of common sense knows that.

When an argument resorts to insults, it’s the number one clue that the argument is flawed. Are insults all you have? You’ve lost all credibility by calling people stupid if they don’t believe like you do.

Now do I have you incensed? Go back and read my post, since you obviously didn’t the first time. I agreed with you! The implications are such, and the timeline so long, that actions should be taken merely on the possibility that humans could be influencing global warming.

Just don’t say it’s “proven.”

I can prove scientifically that with the application of enough gasoline my car will go 190 mph before failure of the stationary gear causes catastrophic failure. That doesn’t mean I am driving my car at 190 mph right now, or that it ever got that high, yet I apply gasoline to it every day. And there are mechanisms in place to prevent catastrophic failure, just in case.

I can prove scientifically that there is a process whereby enough CO2 in the atmosphere will cause global warming, but that doesn’t mean it is in fact happening. Unfortunately, there are NO mechanisms to prevent that.

In general Eric Cressey is a great expert in injuries, recovery and general body building, but what does that have to do global warming? In general, I agree with him though.

They say the result of communication is the response you receive. Hopefully I communicated better this time around, although you can’t communicate to everybody, I guess.