True. Honestly I think there’s room on both sides of the equation. For instance, I agree with you here and also agree that (and I said this a couple years ago on a similar wage thread) most people have a SPENDING problem and a problem with trying to get too much “stuff”.
But the flip side of that is a wage that hasn’t kept up with inflation, an unstable schedule from week to week, massive wage fluctuation day to day week to week and month to month, and dealing with often drunk assholes for hours and hours in the food service industry.
No because it’s a “tip”. It’s not a basically obligatory tax because the waiter/establishment business model is flawed, it’s supposed to be a reward for good/outstanding service provided, not a charity donation because “waiters live off tips”
You usually round up the bill to the nearest number, pay 10% at most for outstanding service. Unless you’re a drunk Russian.
Hmm. I know in Latin America they add up to 18% on your bill non negotiable for “servicio incluido” which goes to kitchen staff and servers.
To me eating at a sit down resteraunt you aren’t really paying for the food. As @SkyzykS has pointed out you can make better food at home for cheaper. You are paying for the experience of being “out” with friends/family. You don’t have to cook or do dishes. It’s the closest most middle income people ever come to hiring servants (for 40 minutes anyway).
Also, the skill set for taking orders and serving food is not that hard to develop. I don’t think it’s a problem with the business model as it’s just a cultural thing.
An integral part of Russian culture is spending as recklessly as possible as much money as possible (and even impossible) on vacation, regardless of one’s state of personal finances.
That’s includes, among other things, ordering the most expensive items on the menu just for show and being spectacularly hammered 24/7.
If you’re an owner of an establishment and you’re willing to accept extremely loud, obnoxiously and excessively drunk violent patrons prone to racist outbursts and fistfights with non-white people you’ll be rewarded handsomely as they’re prone to overpay the bill sometimes two times over and are by far the biggest spenders.
Edit: video is in Russian but it shows some typical Russian tourist behavior
So it’s the closest thing you can experience to handling an unhinged celebrity.
Again, absolutely. I think, people that are being honest about the issue, understand that an adult working a minimum wage job (even in states with higher minimums like MD) are going to struggle financially and have a very difficult time overcoming their situation.
Throw kids in there, yes that’s generally their choice/consequence of their actions, and you basically have zero financial mobility. No financial mobility means no night school, training, etc…
I think we should be able to recognize that:
A) some people simply lack the capacity to perform jobs that require more than simple tasks and,
B) some people have made very poor decisions trapping them, for a lack of a better term, in a very difficult situation.
And, from there, move on to an actual solution. From there, create and yes spend to find a way to subsidize group A and create a viable path for group B to a “living” wage.
I think most people get caught up in the first part. We recognize the issue and then throw our hands up. “Well, that single mother shouldn’t have had 5 kids out of wedlock!!!” Agreed. Now, come down off your pedestal and help me figure out a way to help her help herself and her family.
Of course, the opposite is just as true. “Well, she has 5 kids without a father, we need to support her!” Okay, let’s support her by finding a way and even subsidizing a way for her to support herself and her kids long-term.
All of that is a moot point anyway once we go to a UBI, which will happen in the next 10-20 years, imo.
In many countries it is normal to live on a couple hundred dollars a month. And the cost of most goods in those countries isn’t any lower and is higher in some cases. The only things that are cheaper are generally housing and any services that are priced based on the cost of labor.
A fulltime minimum wage job will gross over $1000 a month. An inability to live on that is a spending problem, not an earning problem.
Well, for the sake of debate how about this:
The US Federal Poverty Level in 2017 was $12,060. A minimum wage ($7.25) employee that works 40/hrs a week for 52 weeks makes $15,080.
That’s 3 grand above being in poverty. Being so close to broke means that even if they are able to barely support themselves, they aren’t putting much money back into “the system.” Even bumping up minimum wage a couple bucks to 9.25 brings it up to $19,240, which still isn’t much, but at least gives a little more of a safety net between them and poverty. Plus I think history bares out that when people have more money, people will spend more money. This circulates more money back into the economy and into the pockets of the businesses and the federal coffers. All generally speaking of course.
Well me personally, I wouldn’t really consider staying barely above poverty a “decent living.” I think it falls under the “bare substinence level” category.
Do you think it falls under the “bare subsistence level” for someone that lives in New York City?
*Because I’m looking and I see a 200sqft Micro Apartment for about $1000/month ($12K) and assuming $50/week for food ( That’s like $2.25 a meal - Approx. $2.5k/year) you’re now at about zero (7.25 * 2000 = $14.5K).
Nope, but we’re talking federal poverty level and federal minimum wage. On average, across the US, yeah it falls under that category. Most of the places where the cost of living is super high have already adjusted minimum wage to try and keep up
Is the FPL not based off the average cost of living across the country? Are you thinking it’s more than bare substinence? Consider that the usual recommendation is that only 25% of your income should be going to housing. For a person on minimum wage ($15,000/yr) this equals out to about $310/month to go to housing. Even in Memphis, where the cost of living is dirt cheap, a place that only cost $300 would land you in the worst slums in the city (aka mini third world countries)
25% of your income is an entirely arbitrary number. Also, you can get roommates if you need. If you live in NYC, you probably should move.
A living wage means you can live on it. People live on a few hundred dollars a month. If you add in a few hundred more that it takes to rent a place with a couple roommates in a low cost area, you have what it takes to live in the US. It’s less than minimum wage.
This X 10000! Thanks @Aragorn and you for bringing it up and expounding upon it.
2 years ago I got my first cell phone (a surprise from the wife). A cheap but durable flip phone. The response from quite literally everybody was “OMG! How can you live without a phone!” Like if you aren’t spending a couple hundred a month on a new shiny blippy thing with an unlimited data plan You Will DIE!
Not even going to re-hash what I made when I got a mortgage on my house.
And everybody talks about 40 hours when they’re calculating these numbers. Who in the hell works 40 hours consistently?
I have never worked 40 hr weeks consistently. 60, 80, some 100+ for a few good stretches(months) when we were starting a company, but 40? No.
Hell, I knew a guy making $9.50 an hour that pulled doubles 6 days a week for an entire year and netted about 80K for the year. Why? Because he wanted to! He figured out the numbers and just went for it. It worked.
Is this in the context that the vast majority of companies don’t allow unfettered OT?
You mean… because his employer allowed him to? Or did he just walk into mgmt’s office with his easily replaceable job and let them know he’d be pulling in ~120 hours of OT a week on top of his 40?
TBH after working ~26 hours a day 6 days a week for a year, I’m surprised he’s still breathing
