Of course, this is what WASPs used to say about Catholicism.
It is not a coincidence that JFK was the first Catholic elected POTUS. And he had to do a lot of ‘splainin’ at the time to allay WASP fears of the Pope being our ‘secret, de facto President.’
Honestly, I feel the same way about Christianity and how the Christian right has been trying to erode the separation of church and state so the law better reflects their religious morality.
And I guess that is the point I’m making - you believe that Islam is a false religion. Illegitimate, heretical, a sham, whatever the problem you have with it - you’ll never be able to make peace with it as another religion in the varied assortment of religions we have in our society.
Then what explains the millions of Muslims who live in the West, and especially in the United States, agreeing to live under a different political construct?
Just going to drop this here. I tried my hardest to find a lefty source of this news. Found Bloomberg… he’s a dem right? Didn’t want to drop a right leaning story.
Susan Rice requested the names be unmasked, multiple times. She also is the one that distributed them. She claimed last month she knew nothing about incidental surveillance.
This looks bad. The only way the former administration wins this is if they leak “smoking gun” transcripts that show Trump and team actually directly colluded with the FSB.
Agreed, this is a mess.
Nobody is winning in this
From the article:
“Rice’s requests to unmask the names of Trump transition officials do not vindicate Trump’s own tweets from March 4 in which he accused Obama of illegally tapping Trump Tower. There remains no evidence to support that claim.”
and:
“Indeed, much about this is highly unusual: if not how the surveillance was collected, then certainly how and why it was disseminated.”
This will continue to be complicated until the investigations show the public what they conclude. Other than that we’re grasping at the little pieces of facts that slip through the cracks (do I get bonus points for rhyming?).
From what I read on Business Insider this is pretty normal and doesn’t mean Trump or his associates were the targets of any surveillance. Just that their names may have been picked up during routine surveillance because foreign agents were speaking about them.
I consider all non Judeo-Christian religions as false, with Judaism being in correctable error.
But you are correct, I place Islam into a separate category that prevents my peace with it. It is a bastardized subversion that goes against the Jewish roots of Christianity, and against the central tenet of my personal faith - belief in Jesus as the only necessary ‘work’ to ensure an eternal and forgiven salvation.
Islams holy books teach death rather than life to non adherents, and it has a legal system that rules not only the actions of life spiritually, but politically as well. It is these two facts that cause my stance against its allowance in our country.
I already said that I did not have political issue with other religions within our border
Your last question seems more rhetorical than inquisitive. Maybe I will have time to answer later.
Agreed.
My reading. Trump’s team was caught up in incidental surveillance. That was legal. Susan Rice requested unmasking… legal but odd and hard to justify. The administration disseminated the unmasked names everywhere which is very hard to justify but likely still legal.
So while it isn’t direct surveillance. The administration had transcripts of phone calls with unmasked Trump names. That’s the definition of surveillance. So the Trump team will say “they surveiled us”. And the former O administration will say “it was legal”. But somebody leaked classified information somewhere.
Bill Maher, a man with whom I rarely agree, said something to the effect of “In the free market of ideas, Islam is the full of bad ideas.” Totally paraphrasing. I will try to find that quote.
This is all just a distraction ploy by Trump & team to take the focus off of Russia (evidence: you and many others are talking about it). Much the same as his tweet this morning about Clinton.
Ok. Show the evidence where Trump colluded with Putin. Not talked to… colluded. We’ll wait here.
Right now Trump’s claims of improper surveillance have more supporting evidence.
You are certainly free to believe that, but you don’t live in a society organized around a belief - or presupposition - that that is the case.[quote=“treco, post:6050, topic:223365”]
and against the central tenet of my personal faith - belief in Jesus as the only necessary ‘work’ to ensure an eternal and forgiven salvation.
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That is true for Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and paganism, among others. Should we restrict immigrants who adhere to these faiths? It’s not much of an argument to say these aren’t as violent as Islam - if they are false, they are destined at some point to clash with Christendom.[quote=“treco, post:6050, topic:223365”]
Islams holy books teach death rather than life to non adherents, and it has a legal system that rules not only the actions of life spiritually, but politically as well. It is these two facts that cause my stance against its allowance in our country. I already said that I did not have political issue with other religions within our border
Your last question seems more rhetorical than inquisitive.
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All this ties into my (inquisitive) question - if this is true, how are so many Muslims able to live so comfortably and contently under legal regimes that reject these non-negotiable legal requirements? Better still, why are so many Muslims fleeing the very places that adopt the rigid view of Islamic law you say is required?
Or was Russia a distraction ploy to take the focus off of the Trump agenda?
Amazing how so many refuse to lend even the slightest bit of credence to this and so ignore it entirely. It’s being actively investigated by the DOJ (since July) and two CICs. Comey, under oath, testified:
I have been authorized by the Department of Justice to confirm that the FBI, as part of our counterintelligence mission, is investigating the Russian government’s efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election and that includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia’s efforts. As with any counterintelligence investigation, this will also include an assessment of whether any crimes were committed.
If you’d actually read about it, you might actually be at least a little bit concerned.
They haven’t reached large enough numbers to impose their will on the majority.
There’s still time to avert this upcoming disaster in America.
Parts of Europe not so much.
Trumpkins are in full, mindless partisan defense mode - and this is one of the things I hate the most about politics. Mindless cheerleading and complete suspension of common sense.
I have no idea if anything will come out of this, but the circumstantial evidence is generating immense amounts of smoke. Any person, regardless of political affiliation, should be concerned about how troubling this looks.
So, the millions of Muslims in America are latent sleeper Sharia radicals just waiting for the math to stack up in their favor to push Sharia through at the state and federal levels? [quote=“therajraj, post:6058, topic:223365”]
There’s still time to avert this upcoming disaster in America.
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You don’t know enough about America to be qualified to say one way or other other.
Then you feel the same way about the smoke coming from the Obama administration appointees and the leaks of names which is a Felony?
Both sides are drumming things up bigger than they truly are. If there was evidence Trump colluded we’d have seen it in the 8 months since the election. If there was evidence Obama illegally surveiled we’d likely have seen that too.
Remember it’s a game. It will be interesting to see if they go after a leaker if one is ever found.
Will also be interesting to see if the GOP members who have been howling about leakers will denounce the one who leaked the info about Susan Rice, and demand that s/he be smoked out and prosecuted.
Dual edges sword no?