Actually, I was stating the mirror image of Mufasa’s post. Where he boxed anyone in trying to defend Trump by covering all possible ways Trump could be defended. And I doubt he even knew he was doing it. But, you didn’t notice what I was doing because I believe that you are too emotionally involved.
I hesitate to go any further with an exchange with you because whether it is the 5th or the 20th post you will begin ad hominem attacks.
So before you go there…
…I will say this about my criticism of Obama. At one point I had a nice long list of things that Obama didn’t do correctly, or omitted doing and should have done. I then challenged the poster that I was communicating with to defend Obama. That poster never came back with an argument. And in fact I had done that a few times.
And as long as you brought up the subject of Obama. He was the worst modern day President and no one was even a close second (Well maybe LBJ). But no doubt many on the left think he was one of the best. And I get that.
As for Trump he has been in office just short of four months. And in that time he has cut regulation. He has opened the Dakota pipeline. Enacted a federal hiring freeze. The flow of illegals are down anywhere from 40% to 70% depending on where the information is obtained. He has appointed a conservative Justice to the US Supreme Court (one of his campaign promises). Granted he has not overhauled Obamacare yet but there is time for that. And I expect there will be a very good tax reduction bill passed in the not to distant future.
Now, I don’t expect that the left will find any of that good. So, they will rant on…And since you dislike the man…you won’t comment on much of what he has done that might be considered good.
No, I understand what you’re doing. I just had a specific question in the context of how you define “Hate”.[quote=“zeb1, post:262, topic:229515”]
I hesitate to go any further with an exchange with you because whether it is the 5th or the 20th post you will begin ad hominem attacks.
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A good place to start is answering my question, which you didn’t do. Was/is your criticism of Obama “Hate” in the same way you claim criticism of Trump around here is?
I will give you the benefit of the doubt (probably not a good idea).
I hated practically everything Obama did as President but that is as far as it went. In fact, I was the one early on who said that it was pure nonsense that he was not born in the US. I did not know the man so I can’t say I hated him personally. In fact, as you may recall I have stated on numerous occasions that he has charisma and a great speaking voice. Even in the midst of his left wing policies (which I hated) I found a few good things to say about the man. I’m still waiting for that from you regarding Trump.
Can you honestly say the same about Trump, or did I miss a few of your posts?
It seems to me that you have in fact attacked him personally more than a few times. Our long ago debate on how he made his money…you were pretty rough on him, “the man”. Fast forward to some of his tweets and you’ve insulted him “the man.”
Let’s be honest, if you despise his policy’s and you despise the man…you hate him.
You also attacked him as racist against whites, anti-Jew/Israel, and claimed in a clash of civilizations, he’d side with Muslims - and you peddled misinformation and false reports in support of these accusations.
Certainly this qualifies under your working definition of “Hate”, right? If not, why not?[quote=“zeb1, post:264, topic:229515”]
I’m still waiting for that from you regarding Trump.
Can you honestly say the same about Trump, or did I miss a few of your posts?
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This was asked and answered some posts ago - I already said I didn’t hate the man, and you were part of that exchange. I graded him highly for selecting Gorsuch and for some executive order rollback. It’s there, if you’re interested in reading it.
But you’re simply changing the subject - I want to know why you can savage Obama in the way you have over the years and it not be irrational “Hate” but if we criticize Trump similarly it is?
Is it based purely on partisan grounds? Or is there another reason?[quote=“zeb1, post:264, topic:229515”]
Let’s be honest, if you despise his policy’s and you despise the man…you hate him.
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Your attempts to change the subject are positively Clintonian, but I’m not interested at the moment - I want to understand why criticism of Trump is all just emotion-fueled “Hate” but your criticism of Obama (which didn’t simply stop at not liking certain policies) is not?
I was always taught to hate the actions, or words (if they were bad) and not the person. If you are telling me that you feel the same way fine. But it’s difficult to believe reading what you’ve written about him over the past 18 months or so. Again I am going back to your nasty comments about how he made his money and your direct personal attacks on him as a person.
But if you say you don’t hate him…I’ll take you at your word.
Well, that certainly doesn’t square with the kinds of attacks you leveled at Obama over the years (racist against whites, anti-Jew/Israel, siding with Muslims over the US in a clash of civilizations). Trump critics have leveled less worse at Trump (mainly focused on performance and choices made), but you say that is Hate and what you did is not.
Your words have been horrid toward Trump. But I must say some on the left have topped you easily…your temporary allies have called Trump everything from a moron to racist and even incestual.
Still haven’t heard an answer from you. Obama hates white people, Israel, and will side with Muslims if Islam goes to total war with the West? This isn’t “Hate”?
I already answered that question. But you have no answer for you and your brethren beating the viscous drum of personal attacks toward Trump. And some of them had absolutely nothing to do with politics.
Yes, I actually did. I said that I was taught to hate the evil deeds and words of someone but not the person.
I also mentioned that I cannot judge what is in someone’s heart. But, I will say when you accuse someone of incest it doesn’t get any lower than that and yeah…it sounds a lot like hate.
You can have the last word as I am going to go train.
What about accusing someone of being a non America terrorist who is ACTUALLY the anti-christ here to bring about end times? Personally I’d rather be accused of incest.
My point is to point out (again) your hypocrisy - you accuse people of doing something bad when you do and have done the same bad thing (and worse) without apology or admission that what you did was bad. My example makes it clear: you criticize virtually all criticism of Trump as emotion-fueled “Hate”, yet you have a long and infamous track record of slandering Obama with all sorts of vile claims, and you refuse to answer the question and explain why we’re all guilty of “Hate” but you’re not. It’s pretty transparent.
All of this is to say, this is why no one takes you seriously when you cry about “Hate” toward Trump. In addition to that claim being wrong on its face (the criticism I see here is from very smart, well-spoken critics from all sides of the political aisle, and the criticism is almost always centered on performance), you’re the last person on PWI to have any credibility to complain about “hating” on a President as out of bounds.
I liked it, too. Mostly. Then I spent about 20 minutes reading the comments, many of which were just attacks on the intellect or moral value system of anyone on the right.
Am I to assume that I could get back into the good graces of these NYT readers if I write a letter to Ryan, McConnell, Feinstein and Harris about how I disapprove of Trump’s firing of Comey? As long as I do that but refrain from asking if any of them ever wrote a letter when they saw that their side had taken a wrong turn on an issue, because that would be “what aboutism?”
It’s good to know that these NYT readers sincerely think that my writing a letter would help me renew my “morality card”. I could be a person whose political ideas are worthy of their respect if I will only stand against Trump? Somehow they had respect for people like me just a year ago, before Trump, but now they’ve decided that I have no real moral foundation? Was this a sudden change of opinion over the past year? They respected their right leaning neighbors before Trump, even if they disagreed with them, but now that’s all changed, particularly if I think Elizabeth Warren is a moonbat worthy of ridicule?
FWIW, I think Sykes is right. My failure to write letters when I see actions that violate my principles, or that I think threaten our democracy is not justified because I think these NYT readers dislike me intensely, or because they think I have no true moral foundation, nor is silence justified because I believe they would not do the same if the shoe were on the other foot.
As usual you are wrong. You fill these boards daily poking fun of Trump. In the past you’ve called him all sorts of names. In addition to that on this thread you mock people who have mocked the “lame stream media”. Then in another sentence you admit that they took it easy on Obama.
You regularly swoop down on any poster who says even the slightest positive word about Trump. You are as transparent as my picture window. But beyond that I was addressing the general hate for Trump that is in the country. No President in my lifetime has ever been hated so much as Trump…no one even comes close. Maybe he deserves it because of his own big mouth and angry retorts. But that doesn’t change the fact that he is in fact hated by folks here on T Nation and many throughout the country…
You cannot deny any of this. College’s protesting not only Trump but even a Trump surrogate who is asked to speak on campus. That you deny these things is actually comical. How many people rioted when Obama won the Presidency? Contrast that to how democrats both of high stature and even a few of the commoners on T Nation speak of Trump. If you don’t read the hate…feel the hate and understand how deep it goes that proves to me only one thing…you hate him too, which is your prerogative. But stop the foolish “I don’t hate him, it’s you that hated Obama” defense. It’s laughable.