Science says it is its own individual human life. Science says the zecarlo in the womb is the same organism today.
The person thing is philosophical. Is the drugged unconscious altered mental state human still a person? The 1 day old infant? “Person” is an attempt to identify some common characteristics we might see demonstrated. There is no undetected magical switcheroo between two separate individual organisms/lives upon demonstration of “personhood.” It is the same individual organism. Again, it is the same individual.
The fact is that the embryo is already the same individual organism as a “person.” It already has the capacity to demonstrate personhood during its individual already existing life cycle. Just like an infant who also still has developmental stages to go through before it even seems like it might be a higher order animal. Heck, apes will run circles around an infant. The point is, we do expect that human life to be capable of demonstrating personhood during it’s already existing life. Just like I can expect an infant to one day be able to contemplate and discuss love, forgiveness, mercy, and the sanctity of life.
Another critical difference between your sperm and embryo objection. Nobody expects the sperm to grow and recite and understand the pledge of allegiance. We reasonably expect this is the case with a pregnancy (embryo/fetus). A sperm is not deprived of being able to demonstrate its personhood. An individual human life is when killed in the womb. A personhood it would demonstrate in its life time.
Unless we kill it. Deliberately. With premeditation. With the whole goal being the eradication of a person. Remember those unwanted prison bound poor persons you guys would rather not be troubled with? The whole point of abortion is to deprive an already existing innocent and individual human life of its reasonably and naturally expected personhood.
Mic drop. You guys have fun. I’m done. Thank God for my life. Thanks to my mother for not taking it away from me. A poster child for pro-abortion arguments, apparently. Happy belated mother’s day, y’all.
Has anyone actually said this? I apologize if so as I must have missed it. The fact is you’re looking at a lot of women who don’t want to have babies having babies. A lot of these will be people already in crummy situations. And these kids are being added to the states with the worst health care and education in the nation. The highest teen pregnancy rates. I would think at the minimum these states would want to prepare to improve in these areas to help these children out.
Or they can do what they typically do. Cry about how horrific abortion is and demand all these births take place. Then the minute the kids are born talk about how they don’t want to help out at all.
“Have that baby. We need all potential kids born. Oh kids out? Don’t tread on me. Taxed enough already. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps kid. Get a better job fast food is supposed to be an entry one. Rich people already pay the most taxes. Stop demanding higher wages. CEO’s deserve that much money and workers don’t. You shouldn’t have had the kid if you couldn’t afford it. Fucking welfare queens.”
So no accountability for engaging in an activity known to produce offspring?
I can be fiddling with my phone, run over a kid in a school crosswalk and no consequence, since l don’t want to have to take responsibility for this kid?
I don’t believe I said no accountability but I think my point was obvious. The people who are desperate for every baby to be born tend to be the ones who don’t want to help these kids succeed. Look at the teen pregnancy rates in these places compared to the rest of the nation. Is the answer really going to be “that 14 year old shouldn’t have had sex if they weren’t ready to be a parent?” Of course that sounds good but let’s deal with reality. That woman shouldn’t have let herself get raped if she wasn’t ready? That kid shouldn’t have had let their uncle have sex with them?
Obviously in a perfect world no one would get pregnant before the people who engaged in sex could raise kids. Let me know when that works out for kids born in those situations.
Yes people should be accountable but we know in many situations they are not. And certainly in situations where they do not want to have a kid in the first place (all abortions minus health). Do most pro-lifers just want kids born? Or do they want them to have a good childhood that gives them the potential for success?
I’m just trying to figure out how someone can be pro-life but be completely ok with kids not having health care. Be ok with hungry and filthy living situations.
Every individual cell in your body is human life. That doesn’t make it a human being.
That is not a fact.
No it doesn’t.
No.
What exactly are you expecting a zygote to demonstrate that tells you it’s a person?
I thought it was already demonstrating this personhood, so why use the conditional “would”? Also, there is no guarantee that a zygote will ever reach any other stage in development.
I don’t think women who get abortions think like that.
Wait, you first say that an embryo can already demonstrate personhood then say it is human life which has the expectation of achieving personhood.
That’s just being gay.
And here comes the irrationality which when all is said and done is the real “reasoning” behind your position. I guess it’s not just the left who believe in feelings over facts.
And if you turned out to be a serial killer who should your victims thank? Your mother or God?
I don’t, and you are the one who needs to provide proof, not me. You won’t, because every time you have made statements about science you have always been proven wrong.
It is hard to predict and I am no prophet, but the tide seems to be turning in favor of pro-life. We now have 7 states have passed hard-core restrictions seemingly over-night.
In a comparison on phenomena, recreational marijuana is legal in 10 states and started with 1 state. Most people, including myself, believe that it’s an unstoppable wave.
Pro-life movements have made unprecedented headway, while the stakes are higher than pot, there is no reason to believe the movement will stop suddenly. Or the fire will be put out.
I certainly don’t know the future I am making a “prediction”. And my prediction is that abortion past 20 weeks gestation will be all but eliminated by rule of law, save for health of the mother and perhaps rape/ incest. I say perhaps because said individual already had 14- 16 weeks to figure out what to do.
The wording of these bills are interesting, though. Most of what I have seen goes to cut the heart right out of Roe v. Wade, so it’s not impossible to believe Roe v. Wade nullified by a new decision. I do think it would take one more conservative justice to actually do that.
If Trump wins 2020 and Ginsburg croaks soon, it may be a viable outcome that Roe is cooked.
How many of those politicians and preachers have already paid for a mistress or girlfriend to get an abortion? Or their own daughters?
Amazing how God is against premarital sex and abortion yet he gave children the physical development to make babies as well as more hormones than they can handle. Perfect world.
It’s not worth my time to try and de-delude you. You want to know, go look, I have already done my research. I don’t care that much about what you think…
I need to invest in abortion clinics because there will be a lot of whores from down south coming up north to civilization in order to get abortions. Maybe I could start something called Abor, the Uber for whores in need of abortions.
I won’t disagree with much of this. I think as long as abortion exists a “movement” of some sort will continue. I disagree with the marijuana comparison though. Public polling started to shoot through the roof on that “movement.” Now you’ve got some polls showing close to 70% of the nation in favor.
Most of your illegal in all circumstances struggles to poll over 20% of the nation. The idea that abortion of all forms will be made illegal seems to have almost no chance of happening right now at the federal level. While the anything goes support for abortion isn’t very high the legal under certain circumstances still polls well and close to the same amount of people call themselves pro-choice as pro-life. The desire to fully overturn the decision might not be that high.
All that said I certainly wouldn’t lay money against a change to Roe V. Wade in the next 20 years but I also don’t think it’s a slam dunk issue like marijuana will eventually be. I also think the potential exists that the Alabama law backfires and generates movement towards choice. It is going to be very easy for choice advocates to say “these people want women who are raped to be forced to carry to term.”
Now you have the punishment for providing an abortion for a 12 year old be worse than a Dad raping that 12 year old. Americans simply don’t support that at this point.
What do you all propose would happen to the GOP if they outlawed abortion at the federal level? Many of their voters are single issue voters and turn up because abortion is still legal.
My thought is that the carrot of repealing Roe needs to exist for the GOP to keep winning.