Trump 2025 - Resuming The National Nightmare Of Peace And Prosperity (Part 2)

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
2023

I’m no expert on Fuentes, but I’ve seen enough to understand that he’s saying that Jews control both political parties and that a lot of people agree with him. He explicitly admires Hitler and encourages white identity politics under a banner of “America First”. People I know personally are now saying very similar things and declaring that voting is meaningless.

Plenty of evidence suggests that ostensibly conservative influencers and politicians that oppose Trump are, in fact, funded by foreign money. Thomas Massie comes to mind, as does Margorie Taylor Greene. The common denominator in this broad movement seems to the idea that Trump is a puppet of Israel first, with the American people a very distant second priority.

Regarding actual power centers we can observe and not simply speculate about, Trump and DOGE are doing much, much more to dismantle Marxist institutional power than anyone in history. If that’s not good enough to get people on board with MAGA, I’m not sure what possibly could be.

James Lindsay recently theorized that the whole “woke right” white identity politics is a continuation of the Marxist “long march through the institutions” and is specifically calibrated to undermine the opposition to Marxism by validating their accusations of Trump as a fascist dictator-in-waiting. The idea being that the Marxist ideas have marched as far as they can through our institutions, and a new form of subversion is needed to undermine the institutions that resisted it, like the Catholic Church, the family, and The Republican Party. I think his line of thought has a lot of merit, and he’s good at explaining the academic and historical origins of what is happening in society today.

The scary thing to me is that Groyperism and the broader idea that Trump is a Jewish puppet seems to be effective. It’s getting a lot of people to check out of politics while the left continues to have a big advantage in organization and political solidarity, along with rigging via noncitizen and nonresident voting, ballot harvesting, mail-in ballots, etc.

2024

Can you provide links to, or sources of, this claim?

2 Likes
2025

To be fair, he has been getting that criticism since his his first term. Whether it’s warranted or not, I definitely remember in 16 hearing much of the same. At the time it was basically Trump’s relationship to Kushner and how it would effect his decision making going forward.

2026

The extent of Fuentes’s foreign support was exposed when X put location tracking on the user accounts. Massie has received a considerable amount of his funding (some say as high as 79 percent) from sources who also donate to Democrats. I may have been mistaken about Greene’s sources of funding, assuming it was similar due to her similar stances. She’s out of the picture now, at least.

Circumstantially, the whole “woke right” rise in Trump’s second term doesn’t seem particularly organic to me. It feels like it is getting pushed on the public in a very similar way that woke left was. A bunch of radical rhetoric and policies that weren’t part of the mainstream discussion suddenly are, and all of the people saying these things are making a lot of money saying them.

The common denominator I observe is that they all work to actively undermine the Trump agenda. This hashes with what James Lindsay theorizes, which is that the ethno-centric aspect of “America First” is boosted and further cultivated by Marxists precisely because it fragments their opposition and weakens MAGA as a political movement. All they need to do to succeed is get enough people to check out of politics, especially local and state level politics.

Voting libertarian or some other third party has the same basic effect.

Here’s the scoop on Massie:

2027

It’s the mainstreaming of the rhetoric that is different, in my opinion. To be clear, I think there is an organic aspect to it, and it isn’t surprising that a bunch of young men who grew up with identity politics being shoved down their throats now conclude that they want identity politics, too.

2 Likes
2028

So you believe Massie, who does exactly what he campaigns on, has been corrupted; but Trump, who campaigned on getting out of foreign wars, has not? Interestingly, Massie votes with Republicans about 78% of the time. I encourage you to examine the times he doesn’t vote with the Republicans and try to determine which is doing the truly conservative thing.

I don’t know whether you’re putting Massie in that group but, again, I encourage you to look at his votes under other Presidents. Try to determine whether he’s changed his ways to oppose Trump.

So, you’re saying the Left wants actual war with the Right?

1 Like
2029

The Right wants the Left to want actual war with the Right. They need to feel like good guys.

We’re living the national nightmare of peace and prosperity after all.

2030

I’d call him a libertarian leaning idealist whose supposed principles happen to draw a lot of money from Democrat donors and whose rhetoric and voting certainly aligns with people who want MAGA to fail. Similar assessment of Greene.

If we were up against 1990’s Democrats, this might be more reasonable, but we’re up against overtly Marxist Democratic Socialists who are here to plunder the land, and they’ve been largely successful. Of course Marxist subversives will fund ostensibly right-leaning people if they are subverting the only political movement that stands in their way.

As far as Trump goes, it isn’t difficult to believe that Iran actually does pose a significant threat to American interests, and at the time of this writing the Iran war doesn’t appear to be a generational boondoggle that gets a ton of politically connected contractors fabulously wealthy via long-term occupation.

International Marxism runs on oil and has for a really long time. And don’t forget that Marxists aren’t simply ideologically rigid adherents to Lenin, but by their own admission support any and all revolutions against the existing social and political order of things. It’s right in the last couple of pages of The Communist Manifesto.

I’d say Greene falls into that category moreso than Massie, and I can’t say I’ve done a ton of homework on either. They both seem to be very adjacent to Groyperism, and often have overlapping support. When I look at the effects of their votes and rhetoric, it isn’t accomplishing any higher purpose or doing a particularly good job of upholding any core principles of government. It just helps Democrats, who are Democratic Socialists in 2026 in all but name.

No. I’m saying that Marxist subversives have gotten about all the juice there is to squeeze out of woke leftism in the USA, recognize that popular opinion is turning against them, and will gladly fund anyone who undermines MAGA. Nick Fuentes is probably the most prominent and extreme example, but there’s an awful lot of other people who make a pretty good living by pretending to be principled conservatives and using that idea as the basis for their opposition to MAGA.

What do you think terms like “decolonization” and “abolish whiteness” actually mean? It doesn’t mean forming up in combat units and gunning it out, it means institutional takeover and systematic plundering.

Like I said upthread, the easiest way to understand what the Nazis were is to think of a modern social justice warrior espousing DEI identity politics and open borders, but change the beneficiaries to ethnic Germans and swap internationalism for nationalism. The social and economic policies are extremely similar, just with different in and out-groups.

So called anti-fascism is just fascism in the same way that so-called anti-racism is just racism. The only difference is the groups being targeted this time around.

2031

Cool.

2032

Don’t you think it is a little ironic that the people calling anyone who disagrees “racist” are the ones insisting that race-based government policies are desperately needed? That race-based wealth redistribution is needed? All to correct the racism of people who’ve been dead for over a century (and happened to be Democrats).

Don’t you think it is a little ironic that the people who want to silence their political opponents through the concept of “hate speech”, who want to nationalize major industries, who want rent control, price controls, wage controls, and a massive welfare state call anyone who disagrees “fascists”?

2033

I can’t wait for “Conservative Republicans” to campaign on being “Obama/Biden Democrats” in 20 years.
:expressionless_face: :weary_face:

1 Like
2034

The irony just became super cool.

2035

Well, Trump is basically a Clinton-era Democrat, which he actually was at the time. The USA is light-years away from a libertarian party first emerging and then gaining control of the Federal government.

Meanwhile, here in reality, I can live with 1990’s Democrat policies, and Trump has demonstrated how they can win big elections in the face of an unprecedented effort to stop him and an ongoing Democratic Socialist revolution unfolding around him.

I don’t understand what you’re getting at at this point.

2036

The national nightmare of peace and prosperity.

Or alt-tabbing a post about corned beef.

2037

“Can’t beat em, join em.”

From a historical perspective, it’s kind of a return to normalcy interestingly enough.

2038

Peace only happens when someone is strong enough to handle the bad actors. To go back to my bar analogy, if I overhear a guy saying he’s going to go out to his car to get a weapon and then come back in and use it on the guy he wants to mess up, I don’t wait for him to get the weapon and come back in before I act on the threat. I bounce his ass and add him to the banned list, using the overwhelming force of a 500 pound squat and years of grappling training (and bouncing shifts) to make it happen. All while pussies criticize how I did it.

The ideas of equal protection under the law and no racial or religious tests for US Citizenship have been the norm for all of my life and most of my parent’s lives.

I guess it depends on how far back you want to look for tribalism and ethno-centric policies, which definitely did prevail for most of human history.

1 Like
2039

That’s why I wrote it. That’s also why he was just a better choice than the alternatives. He’s not someone for conservatives(lower-case) to follow.

And getting farther from it all the time.

If I’m not misremembering or misattributing your posts, you are literally a 1990’s Democrat. And you’ve said the Democrat Party left you and not the other way around. If I am wrong, I apologize and admit that I am mistaken regarding your past political leanings.

1 Like
2040

No, I appreciate that you remembered my past posts so well. I was a strong Democrat in my teens and twenties. In many ways, I still am, insomuch as I am a classical liberal who believes in the power of public institutions when they are operated by other classical liberals who value individual rights and free markets while rejecting identity politics. Public schools actually used to work pretty well.

We agreed that US Citizenship and attaining the age of 18 is the basis for voting rights in all elections. We agreed that borders exist and should be enforced in a fair manner while still allowing some immigration.

In hindsight, most of my early leftism was probably reflexive contrarianism and an affinity for leftist critique, which seemed so insightful and intelligent to me at the time. It also felt good to feel like you’re on the right side of history because you’re sticking it to the man.

1 Like
2041

:rofl:

2042

I don’t agree with everything he’s ever said, but he makes a lot of good points. To understand those points, you’ll need to know a fair bit about a variety of subjects, but if you do, he is a remarkably clear communicator.

I’m entirely unsurprised you summarized your thoughts on him with an emoji.