TRT - Started 4 Weeks Ago

Pharma TRT
61

Testosterone, Serum (Total) 287 Low ng/dL 348 â?? 1197

% Free Testosterone 2.9 % 1.5 - 3.2

Free Testosterone, S 83 pg/mL 52 â?? 280

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 12.2 Low nmol/L 16.5 - 55.9

Candida Antibodies IgG,IgA,IgM
Candida Antibodies IgG <30 U/mL 0 - 29

Vitamin B12 674 pg/mL 211 - 946
Folate (Folic Acid), Serum 14.4 ng/mL >3.0

Pregnenolone, MS 20 ng/dL
Reference Range:
Adults: <151

DHEA-Sulfate 302.5 ug/dL 102.6 - 416.3

Rheumatoid Arthritis Factor
RA Latex Turbid. 228.7 High IU/mL 0.0 - 13.9

Antithyroglobulin Ab
Thyroglobulin, Antibody <1.0 IU/mL 0.0 - 0.9

Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 241 High ng/mL 64 â?? 210

Antihistone Antibodies
Anti-histone Abs 0.4 Units 0.0 - 0.9
Negative <1.0
Weak Positive 1.0 - 1.5
Moderate Positive 1.6 - 2.5
Strong Positive >2.5

Iodine, Urine 173.9 ug/L 28.0 - 544.0

Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 35.6 ng/mL 30.0 - 100.0

Estradiol, Sensitive 5 pg/mL 3 - 70 01

Antigliadin Abs, IgA
Deamidated Gliadin Abs, IgA 4 units 0 - 19
Negative 0 - 19
Weak Positive 20 - 30
Moderate to Strong Positive >30

Antigliadin Abs, IgG
Deamidated Gliadin Abs, IgG 2 units 0 - 19
Negative 0 - 19
Weak Positive 20 - 30
Moderate to Strong Positive >30

TSH 1.460 uIU/mL 0.450 - 4.500
Thyroxine (T4) 6.1 ug/dL 4.5 - 12.0
T4,Free(Direct) 1.09 ng/dL 0.82 - 1.77
Triiodothyronine (T3) 80 ng/dL 71 â?? 180
Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 2.9 pg/mL 2.0 - 4.4
Reverse T3, Serum 7.5 Low ng/dL 9.2 - 24.1

Magnesium, Serum 2.2 mg/dL 1.6 - 2.6

Progesterone 0.5 ng/mL 0.2 - 1.4

Ferritin, Serum 38 ng/mL 30 â?? 400
Iron, Serum 54 ug/dL 40 â?? 155

Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab <6 IU/mL 0 â?? 34

PTH, Intact 24 pg/mL 15 â?? 65

Vitamin A, Serum 58 ug/dL 18 - 77

62

622×1280 119 KB

[quote]PKNY wrote:
From what I understand about Prop is that 100mg/ml is the highest concentration you want.
The propionate ester requires more Benzyl Alcohol to dissolve and get it to stay “in solution.” The more BA in an oil based injectable the more pain after injection you will experience.

That said, I wouldn’t mess around with the Prop/Cyp blend, just try for plain Prop 100mg/ml.
Let me know what you find.

[/quote]

testosterone propionate is often regarded as a painful injection. this is because it has a very short carbon chain of the propionic acid ester, and it can be irritating to tissues at the injection point.

…with test prop, its not high BA content that causes painful injections… that is not usually the problem, but its the one thing most people know about steroid injections.

it is a reaction to the propionic acid in the ester that can cause pain. it is a naturally occurring carboxylic acid, a clear liquid with a pungent fruit like odor. the anion CH3CH2COO as well as the salts and esters of propanoic acid are known as propanoates (or propionates).

propanoic acid inhibits the growth of mold and some bacteria at the levels between 0.1 and 1% by weight. as a result, most propanoic acid produced is consumed as a preservative for both animal feed and food for human consumption. it is also used to make pesticides and pharmaceuticals.

some people react to it, some don’t. after you rotate sites a few times your body should get used to it. if you don’t some people give test phenylprop a try.

ester - an ester is a chemical modification were a alkyl group or groups are added to increase circulating time of a steroid compound, which controls the release of the hormone into the blood. The first word in the chemical name is the hormone, and the second word is the ester attached to the hormone; for example in testosterone enanthate the hormone is “testosterone” and the ester is “enanthate”. The only difference between testosterone enanthate, testosterone decanoate and testosterone propionate is the rate of release of the hormone into the blood stream.

short ester - breaks down more quickly, requires eod or ed injections. examples are acetate and propionate

long ester - allows for a slower break down, therefore 2XW injections. examples are enanthate and decanoate.

63

here’s another one i found:

What causes (non infection related) injection pain?

first the shorter the ester, the higher the melting point
second, the concentration of the gear.
third, the solvents used.
fourth, injecting too quickly
fifth, virgin muscle.

Pain is caused when the oil/solvents are absorbed by the body and crystals are left behind.
Short esters (propionate or acetate) are harder, more painful crystals with melting points in the 100c range.

A hormone with a longer esters (excluding cypionate- cyp is long but also high melting point) can have a melting point in the 20c-40c range. not far off from human body temp.

Pain is also caused by concentration of your gear.
Building off of point 1: Let’s say it takes the body 24 hours to absorb 1mL of a certain oil/solvent blend, and 24 hours to absorb 50mg of Testosterone Propionate. If 50mg (or less) of testosterone propionate is in 1mL of that oil, this injection should be painless. On the other hand, if 100mg of testosterone propionate is in that same 1mL of solution, then after 24 hours the body will have absorbed 50mg and 1mL, leaving 50mg behind in the injection area, crystalized and painful.

Its better to shoot 3mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate than 1mL of 150mg/mL Testosterone Propionate.
This is also why water based suspensions (Testosterone base/no ester, Winstrol) hurt the most, water is very easily absorbed in the body

The solvents used can cause pain in 2 ways. Benzyl alcohol (BA) is used at 1%-2% as a preservative and antiseptic. If the alcohol content is too high the gear will burn. Pain in the first 24 hours is usually caused by heavy solvents, pain in the next few hours is usually cause by crystalization.

Another way is a bad recipe. if someone used 2% BA, and the rest of the solution oil, the mg/mL would have to be low due to oil’s weak ability to hold crystals. On the other hand, a recipe like 2% BA, 5% Guaiacol (super solvent), 10% Benzyl Salicylate (liquid asprin) with the filler split 50:50 between Ethyl Oleate (oil/solvent hybrid) and normal oil should be far less painful.

If you inject too quickly it can tear tissue.

If your muscle is new to the hormone, it will absorb the hormone very slowly, but absorb the oil/solvent very quickly. This will cause more crystalization and pain. As your muscles recognize the hormones, they will be absorbed more quickly, thus less pain. The deeper you inject into the center of a muscle group, the better.

How do I prevent pain before I inject?

Cut your shots 50:50 with sterile filtered oil. If you want to use 50mg of Testosterone Propionate, and you have 100mg/mL Testosterone Propionate- pull 0.5mL of your test prop, and 0.5mL of sterile filtered oil to shoot 1mL of 50mg/mL Testosterone Propionate. This is the #1 best way.

Dont bother cutting with b-12, its water based- absorbed so quickly it will have little to no impact.

Before you shoot, it can help to warm your gear some (especially suspensions). You could put the vial in the bathroom sink and let hot water run over the vial for 2 minutes, and shake well. This will lower the oils viscosity also making it easier it pull into the syringe.

Inject slowly, take 30 seconds per mL. Use a 25g pin to inject so it forces you to move slowly.

64

652×1146 207 KB

Gentlemen,

As I pointed out above, I am struggling badly with TRT. Short background:

  • started TRT 01/27/2013 with 14 Testopel pellets
  • original symptoms included loss of libido, loss of orgasmic sensation, premature ejaculation. No ED though.
  • after initial 2 months of horrible hell on pellets (panic attacks, severe insomnia, heart palpitations), all these bad sides disappeared, and premature ejaculation cured, I started to feel some orgasms. Libido did not recover (except for a very brief flash of strong libido 5 days after testopel insertion, followed by severe panic attack).
  • in July 2013, when Testopel wore off, I went on cypionate shots+arimedex, and symptoms got more severe. I developed ED, which was progressing, and lost morning wood. Premature ejaculation returned. I started to see signs of penile atrophy (thinner shaft in flaccid state, pronounced veins on shaft). I developed severe anxiety, insomnia.
  • since July 2013 I tried A LOT of protocols. I have abandoned arimidex completely, and tried different combinations of propionate /cypionate/HCG , but none of the symptoms resolved.
  • in March 2014 I decided to go back on Testopel, believing that at least I will start seeing erections/morning wood.
  • Nine days after (3/26/2014) implant I saw (overnite) penile atrophy disappear, and morning wood came back in strong. It lasted 4 days and returned back to bad state.

Luckily, I did tests on that day 3/26/2014, they are above. They correspond to a “good erectile state”. Recently, 6/12/2014 I did another comprehensive battery of tests. Since my symptoms are still bad, these correspond to my current “bad” state. These 6/12/2014 tests are also above. They are laid out side by side, for comparison. Tests 6/12/2014 include more stuff than 3/26/2014.

Since I am trying to troubleshoot my bad situations, I am humbly asking my respected friends on forum to look at tests and tell me what you see. What can be the reason behind my baaad stuff that is going on. Caution - I have low SHBG, so the answer “your testosterone is too low” is likely wrong. I tried to go on high levels of testosterone (600+), and this just aggravated symptoms to be worse.

So I ask - look at the numbers guys and tell me what can be the reason I am in shitster?

65

Adding to the list above. Other symptoms include

  • diarrhea (pretty much every day). It looks like I have IBS. This was not the case prior to me starting cypionate when I shot for levels 700+.
  • insomnia is severe. I cannot fall asleep until 2-3, sometimes 5 AM. Even I am tired and sleepy/fatigued, the brain just does not turn off
  • anxiety level is huge

As you can see from the numbers above, my adrenaline level is high. It may by itself explain a lot of these symptoms, including ED.

Question is - how do I calm down my adrenal cortex? It is as if I am in the constant state of sympathetic overdrive.

66

Bump

67

I can’t help but to feel for you, KWN.

Dealing with this for over a year and a half must be extremely frustrating.

I have more of an observation than an answer for you KWN, if you don’t mind.

Original symptoms 1.5 years ago:

  1. loss of libido,
  2. loss of orgasmic sensation,
  3. premature ejaculation

Current symptoms after numerous protocols over 1.5 years of trying to regulate hormones, which may or not be the culprits:

  1. loss of libido
  2. loss of orgasmic sensation,
  3. premature ejaculation,
  4. panic attacks (NEW)
  5. high anxiety (NEW)
  6. Erectile Disfunction (NEW)
  7. Penile atrophy (NEW)
  8. Diarrhea (NEW)
  9. Severe insomnia (NEW)
  10. Low energy and severe fatigue (NEW)
  11. Severe stress caused by all the NEW symptoms and inability to solve the original ones

Given that your original symptoms could have been caused by numerous factors (ie. stress, prostate problems, atherosclerosis, weight loss (first two), prescription medications (such as those given for stress) etc.) and that the certain hormonal changes could have been a SYMPTOM and not necessarily the CAUSE, did you ever explore other causal problems other than HRT?

KWS, how long were you experiencing symptoms before jumping on Testopel in Jan 13? Were you under heavy stress during that time, new prescription meds, obese (or experienced severe weight loss) etc. Did you rule out other possibilities before jumping on HRT? If you didn’t, I can’t help looking at the lists above after 1.5 YEARS and thinking that maybe you should stop looking at ONLY blood work for an answer and start looking elsewhere.

I couldn’t look at that list and justify staying in an HR therapy, especially if all other causes were not explored.

68

Prior to going on testopel in jan 2013 I had an overnight loss of libido and erections which happened March 12, 2012. I was not able to recover from it until I started rigorous Atkins diet. At that point I was obese at 225 lbs. on Atkins I lost 20 lbs over 6 weeks and in May 2012 my libido and erections returned as unexpectedly as they vanished. Then in Sep 2012 over few weeks my libido disappeared again together with orgasmic sensation.

After that I started testopel in Jan 2013.

Since testopel was done by urologist he did not measure anything except testosterone, tsh, prolactin and psa. So I have no idea what was other numbers.

I tried taking T3, low dose. Even though by lab results I am not hypothyroid, my doc decided to try it because of other symptoms: dry skin, low body temperature. I took low dose T3 but had no change in symptoms.

So unexplored remain: T4 and cortisol.

If anyone has input/experience/recommendations I ask you to share them.

Thank you

69

Just received saliva cortisol test.

Cortisol (saliva) LOW 2.6 L ng/mL 3.7-9.5 (morning)
Cortisol (saliva) HIGH 4.3 ng/mL 1.2-3.0 (noon)
Cortisol (saliva) HIGH 2.4 ng/mL 0.6-1.9 (evening)
Cortisol (saliva) HIGH 2.8 ng/mL 0.4-1.0 (night)

Comments by doc:
Cortisol is low in the morning but rises to a high level the remainder of the day. This unusual pattern strongly suggests the use of adrenal adaptogens, cortisol itself, or cortisol-like medications (eg. anti-inflammatory steroids) used to treat allergies or asthma. None of these medications were listed, however, these cortisol-analogue medications frequently are not considered as hormones and not listed on the requisition form. While the high cortisol level can result from excessive production by the adrenal glands caused by a stressor (e.g., emotional, physical-excessive exercise, dietary, microbial infections such as fungal-yeast, bacterial, or viral infection, inflammation from injuries or diseases) the unusual circadian profile suggests instead the use of topical anti-inflammatory steroids such as hydrocortisone (cortisol) and prednisone, or from asthma/allergy inhalants that contain steroid analogues that structurally are similar to cortisol (e.g., Betamethasone). Hydrocortisone creams used on the lips are the most common form of contamination that cause false-high test results. Although the high cortisol test results may represent an artefact due to use of some cortisol analogue, the symptoms are, nevertheless, consistent with high cortisol (eg. sleep disturbances, anxiety, memory lapses, fatigue, bone loss, and/or depression. For additional information about strategies for supporting adrenal health and reducing stress(ors) and associated high cortisol, the following books are worth reading: “Adrenal Fatigue”, by James L. Wilson, N.D., D.C., Ph.D.; “The Cortisol Connection”, by Shawn Talbott, Ph.D.; “The End of Stress As We Know It” by Bruce McEwen; “Awakening Athena” by Kenna Stephenson, MD.

=================

In other words, my cortisol pattern is inverse from normal. I am was NOT taking any cortisol meds, so the assumption doc made is incorrect (that samples were influenced by cortisol hormones that I take).

Any suggestions from you guys are needed. What do I do with my adrenals?

70

I have nothing other than Wilson’s book.

You still have T3 Rx drug? How long did you try that. Did you monitor your body temperatures to see if they increased? I would use body temperatures as a dosing guide and increase Rx T3. The results would be very diagnostic. Did you try this when rT3 was higher and running interference?

  • diarrhea That is a lot of stress and throws other systems out of balance. Have to also point out that excess serotonin can cause diarrhea. A classic example is SSRI’s

Your CBC does not indicate gut blood loss that can come with IBS. Looked into gluten intolerance?

71

KSman,

Thanks for reply.

I did try T3 for 3 weeks, but observed no changes in symptoms. I was on it for 3 weeks, went up to 10 mcg, then discontinued. Did I give enough time for it to work? From what I can tell, my rT3 was never high. Am I wrong? In the next several days I will monitor the morning temp, and report back.

I did not try T4, maybe this is my next attempt. I read a few accounts when supplementing with T4 did the trick.

My elevated pulse rate and penile atrophy may indicate out of balance adrenals. Cortisol higher than normal during most of the day points in the same direction. It is as if I put adrenals into overdrive, and they fail to calm down. It is my understanding that diarrhea/IBS can come with this condition.

I did not look into gluten intolerance yet. How do I test for it?

72

https://www.google.com/search?q=gluten+intolerance+yet.+How+do+I+test+for+it

T4 is a reservoir for making T3, fT3 is what gets the job done. T4 can work well for many/most, however some are not very efficient at T4–>T3 conversion. Someone on T4 with mid range fT4 levels who is symptomatic [for hypothyroidism] may need Rx T3. fT3 labs settle that issue. Body temps are the bottom line.

When the thyroid is removed, T4–>T3 can only occur in peripheral tissues. Ferritin and selenium are needed components for that.

73

As you can see from numbers above, my ferritin is borderline low. I was taking proferrin for extended period of time, but ferritin levels did not move drastically. How else can I raise it?

74

Iron rich food and there can also be a possibility of digestive issues and GI bleeds for a few guys.

75

Was tested negatively for stool bloods, this excludes GI bleeds.

76

two mornings in the row I measure 96.6 in the morning. Afternoon reading: 97.1 and 97.4.

I will keep measuring but does this point to hypothyroid?

77

Also, true or false:

  • some people may not react to one thyroid med, but a different brand of the same med may improve symptoms?
  • some people may react to T4 but not T3, or a combination of T3/T4?
78

Some do OK with Rx T4 alone and convert T4–>T3

Some cannot and need T4+T3, so they will do better with Armour than T4. With T4 alone, they can be very hypothyroid. Many docs will never understand that because the drug reps tell then that Rx T4 is all that is required as they try to drive thyroid extracts out of the market place.

I explained the above to you 08/04/2014 - did you miss that?

You have serious functional hypothyroidism if your thermo and technique are good. Good to verify that someone else can get 98.6

79

bought a new thermometer and measured oral temp today.

96.7

same measurement with old thermo. Now I am guessing I have hypothyroid. How do I start to cure it? I took T3 but no changes. Maybe I did it for too short/too little.

Any advise would be appreciated.