Yes, I lost fat and gained muscle without working out, just my normal level of activity. I seem to have shifted to a build of where I was when I was 28YO, only stronger. I am 61YO next month. I did attempt lifting but I do not do that now. I lost fat with T, then T+hCG. When I reduced E2=37–>22, I lost more fat, from the resistant loss areas.[/quote]
Thanks for that info. Yes a guy I work with was overweight and refused to workout but eats vegetables and juice and over the last 3 months lost all the fat.
For me lifting is how I reconnect with feeling youthful as I was very much into working out as a young man.
This latest experiment with hormones is quite an eye opener, I think my E2 we will find out later today was huge and why I started getting a bloated gut after initially being all muscle that seemed to get larger every day. I am normally very low body fat.
[quote]GeoBob wrote:
Just a question HiredGun, you mentioned that you have UC? What are you refering to.[/quote]
Right before my divorce I missed 30 days of work. They scoped me and said I had Ulcerative Colitis. Summer 2008 I submitted 5 motions to the judge for Child Family Investigation while starting a new challenging contract and all of that stress resulted in my dropping to 130 lbs and being hospitalized from near death bloody flare. Last summer one began and I shut it down quickly without meds as I felt that is how I got out of the hospital the year prior.
It just happened again and I see how from my abuse of stimulants over on the ‘Adrenal Fatigue’ thread as it eventually effects the gut. Found pubmed articles intersecting and supporting that thread from a UC perspective. My natural methods were working, but slowly this time so I began the evil prednisone 2 days ago as I have a marathon all-niter at work again tonight. After that I can get off the pred as my combination therapy is working. However I have lost 10 lbs and am at 180, much of that was water I supposed as I am flying blind and have no bloodwork yet on my E2 level - expecting some today after quite a long run around.
Has anyone experienced problems with crashing in between twice a week injections? I’ve just started TRT with T HCG Clomid a three days ago. I’m supposed to inject twice a week so I’m wondering whether having two days in between one injection and three between the other presents any noticeable effects. Also, with testosterone enanthate, how long after beginning TRT can you expect to have your levels reach normal? Also, at what point in TRT does increased virilization occur? Pain from injecting IT is pretty bad, no problems with the SC HCG though. I expect I will begin an AI after my next lab test in a month as I’m sure my E2 will probably rise, however it was low at 12 in a range of 13-72
[quote]Tylerdrms wrote:
Has anyone experienced problems with crashing in between twice a week injections? I’ve just started TRT with T HCG Clomid a three days ago. I’m supposed to inject twice a week so I’m wondering whether having two days in between one injection and three between the other presents any noticeable effects. Also, with testosterone enanthate, how long after beginning TRT can you expect to have your levels reach normal? Also, at what point in TRT does increased virilization occur? Pain from injecting IT is pretty bad, no problems with the SC HCG though. I expect I will begin an AI after my next lab test in a month as I’m sure my E2 will probably rise, however it was low at 12 in a range of 13-72[/quote]
My body burns up T real fast. I was so intent on preserving it I consumed to much PS and suppressed my coritisol to the point it flared my UC and I had to hop on prednisone but just got off 6 weeks earlier than the Dr. wanted me to. Prednisone completely cancelled out therapy.
I have upped my Arimidex and am taking Stinging nettle to help with free T. Things are much better than a month ago when I felt I was crashing between twice weekly injections. As the prednisone clears I have been feeling terrific. The initial IM injections were quite painful and stung for 2 days. I dont even notice them anymore - really dont feel anything. I had a 5-Ester blend that burned a little and reminded me of those first shots. Up-and-out seems to be the sweet spot on the quad, slow injection and I feel fine every time.
The guys here can tell you about Sub-Q, which I have read a blog on…the author evenutally went back to IM. Since IM does not bother me I am going to remain on that path but always with an open mind.
Virilization: Hair and nail growth will speed up. Skin will improve if was loosing elasticity. Growth of new facial and body hair can take time and the end result is also very much controlled by your genetics, not just T levels.
Stinging nettle reduces T–>DHT conversion. While that might increase FT, it will lower DHT. DHT is very important for virilization and maintenance of libido, the sex organs and penis. Lowering DHT can lower libido, that is something that you should be able to notice. When injecting, DHT levels may not be high. With transdermals DHT can be high. So bear that in mind.
Crashing between injections is often a sign of E2 problems.
100mg Test Cyp wk - spread over 3 shots: Mon, Wed, Fri
250iu HCG - 3 days a week: Mon, Wed, Fri
.5 mg Adex - 3 days a week: Mon, Wed, Fri
How long should I wait before getting bloodwork done, to check my levels? I know he recommended only 1mg/wk of adex but my adex script came in .5mg capsules so I cant cut in half. I figure I will keep running 1.5mg/wk until I get my levels checked and adjust from there. My last lab had test = 280 and E2 = 37
Do you pay for labs out of pocket? LEF.org’s spring blood work sale has started.
$199 for LEF members.
Adex: You can take .5mg E3D for 1.16mg/week. However, running E3D with the other schedule would a pain.
I am glad that you were able to start with the full package instead of adding one symptom at a time.
You can dump the contents of the caps into vodka and dispense by the drop. But you will need to see what the filler does when wet. Put contents into a glass shot glass and add a very small amount of vodka and try mixing and letting it sit covered for a while. That can be your next dose.
I have just decided to change to an EOD protocal for T shot and HCG and Arimidex. I was going to take the Arimidex on the non injection days. My thought is that 24 hours after the T injection the blood level should be highest and that would be a good time to take the AI. This assumes that there are significant peaks to both that can be timed.
I know on this board, no one talks about feeling short term affects of Arimidex, like being about to feel something with in 4 hours after taking it. But on the Muselchatroom board there has been some discussion of it. If this is the case then maybe we do get a blood level peak shortly after taking the Arimidex and that peak should be or could be timed with the Testosterone peak we get after injecting.
There are no known direct effects. While changes in T–>E aromatization rates will change very quickly with a competitive drug like this, the time to find a new balance of E2 in the blood will take time and not be something quick.
I do not think that is should be passed on as something that really exists. I have never heard of anyone reporting such. We do get such reports for hCG and that seems to be a start-up transient.
I think I may have dropped past the sweet spot in regards to E2 recently. My sex drive has dropped off a little, but still higher than before I started TRT. For a while I couldnt get enough of it. 3/8/10 will be the end of my 5th week. I get bloodwork covered by my insurance since my primary Dr. gave me androgel. He thinks Im using it so I can just call saying I want to check my levels. Im going have some blood work done at the end of this week mainly to get my E2 dialed in.
I my insurance uses Quest labs and its free. I just need to make sure they as for the right E2 test. Is it the sensatives or ultrasensitive E2 essay i need to ask for?
Depends. You sort of need to know where your E2 is before you test it with Quest. The E2-Quest situation leaves me confused. Perhaps someone else has something useful to post.
I’m hoping for some advice from you guys…I believe my doctor mentioned I’m primary hypogonadal, so does that mean I can never truly “cure” this? Is there anyway to restart my natural production?
My doctor has me on Andriol @ 4x40mg per day, but I told him I wanted to switch to injections because they are just the tried and tested method of administration. He keeps telling me that he doesn’t want to because IM injections give such an unnatural response. How do you guys suggest I go about convincing him that it’s not a big deal. I could just inject E3D or something like that with 75mg or something along those lines right?
My doctor also mentioned that at 160mg of Andriol, I don’t need to worry about aromatization, HPTA shutdown or testicular atrophy. What do you guys think?
IM injections only have unnatural T level profiles when injected infrequently. SC is better than IM in that regard. EOD injections create very steady levels and the small volumes involved can be injected with #29 0.5ml[50iu] 0.5" insulin needles. The issue is not injections, but how injections are done. The problem is that “practice” has been all wrong. This stems from the early premise that injections would be done at the doctors office and then every two weeks. When you self inject, the injections can be much more frequent. Docs have problems letting go of what has been written as protocol and learning to think about something so simple on their own.
Even if functionally primary, you may not want to have your testes shrink with permanent damage. You may be fertile and may not want your TRT making you sterile. You could get a semen sample for a sperm count. You would need hCG at a minimum.
With injections, you need to monitor serum E2 and control near 22pg/ml or 80pmol/L.
if i cant get arimidex is there any other AI that will do the job like clomid? i found it at a couple of pharmacys but they refuse to sell it because its an oncology medicine.
Clomid is a SERM, not an AI. The have some overlap in use, but are not interchangeable. Clomid can be a bad actor, there are better SERMs.
Clomid is a SERM that was originally created to to treat breast cancer. It has many other uses and the pharmacist is off-base. You need a scrip in any case and your post does not provide much to go on.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
No doctor I’ve ever met will prescribe the ideal protocol listed above, unless you can fly to Florida or Vegas and set it up at one of the anti-aging clinics. Expect to pay thousands for this.
IMHO, if someone’s got that kind of cash, they should try the ideal protocol laid out at the top, for a couple of months (didn’t work for me). Unless you feel significantly better subjectively, its better to simply give up and accept fate.
[/quote]
Really? MY TRT doc has me on
200mg cyp (100 2x week),
250mg HCG eod
12.5mg Aromasin eod (or .25 arimadex eod)
I assume we cannot talk price so lets say it no where near what you are talking about.
Where the hell do you guys find this stuff? I have friends that use different types but I’m afraid to take their advice. I live in Everett, Wa just north of Seattle. Any tips on a legal way to go about this is appreciated. PM please!!