You can address the injection volume issues with 200mg/ml products, this also reduces costs. Your concern about E levels should be addressed by labs and adjustment of anastrozole dosing. T levels are addressed by changes to T dosing. T cyp and eth are quite similar. 100mg yields around 70mg of [bio-identical] T after the ester groups are removed.
That works out to around 10mg/day. Test suspension is painful and not something that TRT guys would welcome. I really think that all TRT related bloat issues can be resolved with EOD dosing and anastrozole.
Chemical = Formula = Molecular Weight = Mg of Testosterone
Testosterone (no ester) = Carbolin 19 H28 O2 = 288.4mg = 100mg
Propionate = C3 H4 O = 56.1mg = 83.72mg ā 20% greater yield vs cypionate
Cypionate = C8 H4 O = 124.2mg = 69.90mg
Testosterone base + Enanthate ester
Molecular Weight: 412.6112
Molecular Weight (base): 288.429
Molecular Weight (ester): 130.1864
Formula (ester):C7 H12 O
Yes, propanate would be better in terms of yield. For some, cost and availability are issues. I can get 10ml if test cyp [200mg/ml] from Samās Club for $43 with a business membership. I pay out of pocket, and cost are an issue. I needed higher T levels and my doc simply increased my dose. T cyp seems to be the generic in USA and Canada. In Europe, ethanate is the norm.
Putting availability and cost aside. If I chose to inject EOD or E3D would a shorter-ester test have any benefits over using a longer-ester chain such as Cyp or Eth.
I will be going on TRT soon and if Iām able to use insulin needles, I wouldnāt mind more frequent injections.
What do you think about using more frequent injections with Prop to get your test up quicker, then tapering to a longer ester with less frequent injections once you reach your target level.
[quote]Jscott8220 wrote:
Putting availability and cost aside. If I chose to inject EOD or E3D would a shorter-ester test have any benefits over using a longer-ester chain such as Cyp or Eth.
I will be going on TRT soon and if Iām able to use insulin needles, I wouldnāt mind more frequent injections.
What do you think about using more frequent injections with Prop to get your test up quicker, then tapering to a longer ester with less frequent injections once you reach your target level.[/quote]
There is would be no advantage. Your levels will be come stable very quickly on an eod schedule. Just follow the protocol.
Would it be possible to inject 200mg test cyp once every two or three months with no need for pct or ai
My understanding is that unless youāre on exogeneous test for three weeks or more (at the small dose I have listed), you wonāt shut down. I understand half life, so in one week from injection, youāll only have 100mg floating around which is close to normal. (correct?) My piont is, I would only like a test boost every now and then without all the ai + hcg + pct. 40yr old with test of 413 and est of 26. would supplement with alpha
male and rez-v in between injections. Thanks for any thoughts on matter.
Iām 18 years old, and have had all the usual low testosterone symptoms which I donāt need to list. So I went to my endocrinologist, and the very first one I went to luckily admitted that I had low testosterone (my level was 278ng/dl).
He is saying that he will treat me with HRT, testosterone in injection form. He wanted to run some more tests though first, so i had blood drawn, and then i meet back with him this Tuesday.
I want to request the following to my doctor, but how do I word it so that he will agree? I need evidence and advidce please:
I want injectable test (should I request cyp?)
I want to shoot twice per week so that my levels wonāt fluctuate vs. going twice a month to him.
I want to self inject.
aromatase inhibitor so that my estrogen levels donāt rise.
HCG immediately so that my testicles wonāt shrink.
I want my Testosterone levels to be in the high normal range (close to 900 if possible)
Basically, how do I get my doctor to give me weekly self injected test, hcg, anastrozole? What kind of evidence can I present?
You need to be articulate and not appear to be drug seeking. Another issue is the cost of other delivery methods VS injections. Doc may need evidence of E getting too high before he feels comfortable prescribing Arimidex. But if he does not grasp the concept of an optimal level, he might not be very useful in that regard.
What health insurance do you have, where are you located.
You need to open your own post and list age, weight, height, waist size, amount of body hair and facial hair, when this problem started, were you early and fast maturing or slow, any blows to the head or testes, how have testes changed size wise, what OTC or Rx drugs now and in the past, any experiments with steroids.
You can put some of this into a PM if more comfortable with that. This sticky cannot be your ongoing Saga.
Your primary concern with hCG should be preservation of fertility.
I am 40, never used nothing, and my doc has agreed to essentially to protocol listed above:
200 cyp a week (opposed to sub-q, as he feels it may convert to estrogen more in fat)
500 hcg week (250 day before and day after injection)
1mg armidex, divided dose
Avodart (for DHT ā keep hair and healthy prostate)
I discussed deviding up the cyp, but he said that after two weeks Iād pretty much hit steady state and not worry about it.
Pretty stoked, as I am an avid lifter (and still gaining, depsite my test being in the basement).
The big issue was getting the HCG (pregnyl) in the 10 1000 iu vials instead of one big bottle ā to last the duration.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
First, hello and thanks for this thread.
I am 40, never used nothing, and my doc has agreed to essentially to protocol listed above:
200 cyp a week (opposed to sub-q, as he feels it may convert to estrogen more in fat)
500 hcg week (250 day before and day after injection)
1mg armidex, divided dose
Avodart (for DHT ā keep hair and healthy prostate)
I discussed deviding up the cyp, but he said that after two weeks Iād pretty much hit steady state and not worry about it.
Pretty stoked, as I am an avid lifter (and still gaining, depsite my test being in the basement).
The big issue was getting the HCG (pregnyl) in the 10 1000 iu vials instead of one big bottle ā to last the duration.[/quote]
200 mg cyp per week is too high a dose to start. I donāt know anyone who uses that muchā¦unless you are interested in steroid levels.
I basically have no test (300 something) and essentially no free test.
In fact, I have two bottles of SuperDrol that I stuck in the freezer that I am thinking about adding sometime along the way. (I never used it for concerns with PCT, which is no longer an issue.)
bholiday: SC T is absorbed slower, less T spikes and this less E spikes and lower E and SHBG overall, providing more FT. This was proven with clinical work in Canada.
DHT is a good thing for libido and maintenance of genitalia. You do not want to kill DHT levels!!!
You probably need 1mg Arimidex per week per 100mg test ester per week. With 1.0 mg/week your E2 levels will be too high [unless you are an adex over-responder].
There never is anything steady state about T or E levels with weekly injections, except perhaps a steady state feeling of not not feeling right.
[quote]KSman wrote:
bholiday: SC T is absorbed slower, less T spikes and this less E spikes and lower E and SHBG overall, providing more FT. This was proven with clinical work in Canada.
DHT is a good thing for libido and maintenance of genitalia. You do not want to kill DHT levels!!!
You probably need 1mg Arimidex per week per 100mg test ester per week. With 1.0 mg/week your E2 levels will be too high [unless you are an adex over-responder].
There never is anything steady state about T or E levels with weekly injections, except perhaps a steady state feeling of not not feeling right.[/quote]
KSman, was there a link mentioned here or in another thread re: the Canadian studies w/
SQ Test injections? Sounds interestingā¦
Im will be starting TRT in the next month. My friends who are AAS users keep telling me I will never be able to inject Test w/ a 29G pin due to oil being too thick.
They are using underground labs though, not Dr. prescribed test. Is there a difference in oil thickness?
What brand/Type of test are you guys using that is working with 29G pins?
I thought it would be difficult to shoot through a 29g as well. But I actually think it shoots smoother than the 25g I used to use. I suppose this is due to the pressure in barrel that was mentioned in the original post. I wish I would have found this out years ago.
Inject more often and then there is no point in using Sustanon. If you do not have any issues with cost or availability, one test ester is as good as another. Some esters deliver more T per mg than others because of different ester group weights. After the T esters are absorbed, your body removes the ester groups from the T and this yields bio-identical T. [Injected T is a bio-identical delivery system. Some HRT āpuristsā do not understand this. For many, bio-identical means anything except injections and orals, leaving patches, creams, buccal and pellets.]
Personally, I prefer Watsonās T cyp 10ml 200mg/ml because I can get it for $43 and I pay for everything out of pocket. [Samās Club with a Business Membership.]
Half live of adex and hCG really need EOD injections. Then you would do T EOD and do all at once.
100 mg/wk test eth or cyp in divided EOD dosing, some inject SC ,you can use 0.5ml[50iu] .5" #29
1.0mg/week anastrozole in divided EOD dosing
250iu hCG EOD SC, IM if SC is a comfort issue
If possible, small amounts of 5% T cream applied to penis and [clipped] scrotum