Trouble Stimulating Biceps

Some good advice so far.

Seeing as how you feel biceps exercises near the crease of your elbow, I’m going to assume that you’re using mainly the brachialis when doing curls instead of the biceps. I like BONEZ’s idea about the contracting your biceps to be better at activating them. You could also just simply try to contract your biceps when ever you get the opportunity throughout your day (do it in private if you feel silly hitting a biceps pose in public) instead of making a specific workout out of it. The goal after all is to improve mind muscle connection/activation, not necessarily fatigue your biceps.

Another thing to try is to increase the supination component while curling. The biceps brachii perform 3 joint actions:

  1. elbow flexion (bending the arm)
  2. shoulder flexion (raising the arm)
  3. wrist supination (turning the palms towards you)

In order to do this you I’d suggest either using a barbell for 1 arm curls, grabbing dumbbells towards one side (towards the outside if holding the dumbbells with palms facing you), or if you’ve got adjustable weight dumbbells you can even weight the two sides unevenly (again, you want the “inside” to be heavier).

Then you can either just keep the wrists supinated, or actually supinate/rotate them while curling (obviously cannot be done with the barbell option).

Because only the biceps perform supination, and none of the other arm flexors, this will increase biceps involvement in the movement.

[quote]Rainclouds wrote:

He said that his biceps were underdeveloped compared to his forearms so i assumed that this would work.

I figured that since dave tate trains his back by taking his grip out of the movement that this would also work rather well for biceps.
[/quote]

But pre-fatiguing the wrist flexors prior to curling isn’t the same as using straps to remove the gripping muscles during back work. We are talking about someone who has a hard time activating the biceps and instead feels the movement in his forearms here. Telling him do something which will further increase his forearm connection isn’t going to help him out much.

In order to do the same thing with curls as Tate is doing with straps and his back work, the OP would basically have to attach two ankle cuffs to his wrists and then curl with that (to remove the need to stabilize the wrist joint).

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Some good advice so far.

Seeing as how you feel biceps exercises near the crease of your elbow, I’m going to assume that you’re using mainly the brachialis when doing curls instead of the biceps. I like BONEZ’s idea about the contracting your biceps to be better at activating them. You could also just simply try to contract your biceps when ever you get the opportunity throughout your day (do it in private if you feel silly hitting a biceps pose in public) instead of making a specific workout out of it. The goal after all is to improve mind muscle connection/activation, not necessarily fatigue your biceps.

[/quote]

Yes. Absolutely. Do it as often as possible. I didnt mean to imply that this should be done as a “pre-exhaust” of sorts, if it came across that way.

Thanks for clearing it up Sento

[quote]Rainclouds wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Rainclouds wrote:
Train forearms with wrist curls (both ways) first.

Then do what ever kind of curls you want.

(You may have to cheat a bit but its ok your bi’s should be getting most of the load)

Also if that doesn’t work and your desperate tape the weight to your hand and don’t grip it at all.[/quote]

I dont think this is a good idea at all. If someone can feel their biceps working and the biceps are the weak link in the chain your approach would work. But he said he feels his forearms doing the work. Training them first would serve to activate the forearms even more. I dont think thats going to work out well. [/quote]

He said that his biceps were underdeveloped compared to his forearms so i assumed that this would work.

I figured that since dave tate trains his back by taking his grip out of the movement that this would also work rather well for biceps.

[/quote]

Not to be a dick at all but first hand experience is key with this kind of stuff. Otherwise its too easy to miss important, although somewhat small, details.

Another thing to try is to increase the supination component while curling. The biceps brachii perform 3 joint actions:

  1. elbow flexion (bending the arm)

2) shoulder flexion (raising the arm)

  1. wrist supination (turning the palms towards you)

Interesting, have read this somewhere else. Isn’t raising the arm the purpose of the front delt? So, if someone cheats his curls by not keeping his upper arm vertical, but raises it, still the biceps are responsible for that uprising of the brachii?

[quote]desolator wrote:
Another thing to try is to increase the supination component while curling. The biceps brachii perform 3 joint actions:

  1. elbow flexion (bending the arm)

2) shoulder flexion (raising the arm)

  1. wrist supination (turning the palms towards you)

Interesting, have read this somewhere else. Isn’t raising the arm the purpose of the front delt? So, if someone cheats his curls by not keeping his upper arm vertical, but raises it, still the biceps are responsible for that uprising of the brachii?[/quote]

Yes, the anterior deltoid also performs shoulder flexion (it’s the prime mover, although if you supinate the hand while performing shoulder flexion you’ll feel it much more in the biceps).

But the long head of the biceps assists in shoulder flexion. That’s why changing the angle of the upper arms changes the emphasis to the different heads of the biceps (incline curls work more of the long/outer head, machine preachers where the elbows are about 90 degrees to the body will work more of the short/inner head).

As long as one doesn’t make it excessive, there is nothing wrong with some shoulder flexion while performing curls. I actually prefer to include some shoulder flexion while doing incline curls especially, along with a good stretch at the bottom.

But again, if someone were say shoulder dominant while curling and was having trouble recuiting their biceps, I would probably suggest to minimize shoulder flexion.

Cool info, thnks man.

Could also try offset DB curls.

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
So, let me ask these stupid questions:

How tall are you, what do you weigh?

Your profile says you’re 20, which means you’ve been ‘lifting’ since you were 15.

Have your arms grown at all in 5 years of working out?

Have other bodyparts grown at all as a result of hitting the weights?[/quote]

No doubt some great advice on here, a lot of movements I’ve never really considered before.

To answer your questions, I turn 20 in two weeks. I am only 171 lbs. but i look heavier. My arms have grown several inches since I’ve started training, and I wouldn’t say they have stopped growing, but rather I just can’t feel the actual biceps after I train them. My body has grown proportionally as I have gotten bigger. I took a few progress pics about 6-11 months ago that I can post. Also, I am just shy of 5’9’'.

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
Try what kingbeef suggested, doing curls with your wrist cocked back and squeeze the fuck out of your biceps at the top of the movement. Not flexing your arm, but just squeezing the biceps itself. Sounds like you don’t have a very good MMC and you’re focusing on the forearm instead.[/quote]

As much as I try to focus on the bicep itself, my forearm gets pumped and starts to fatigue so quickly its difficult to keep up. I can pinwheel curl 90lb dumbbells for reps (with a decent amount of “body english”) but I can hardly rep out 85lb. barbell curls (even then my forearms take over) so in addition to having a poor MMC, I also think it might be a strength imbalance.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Some good advice so far.

Seeing as how you feel biceps exercises near the crease of your elbow, I’m going to assume that you’re using mainly the brachialis when doing curls instead of the biceps. I like BONEZ’s idea about the contracting your biceps to be better at activating them. You could also just simply try to contract your biceps when ever you get the opportunity throughout your day (do it in private if you feel silly hitting a biceps pose in public) instead of making a specific workout out of it. The goal after all is to improve mind muscle connection/activation, not necessarily fatigue your biceps.

Another thing to try is to increase the supination component while curling. The biceps brachii perform 3 joint actions:

  1. elbow flexion (bending the arm)
  2. shoulder flexion (raising the arm)
  3. wrist supination (turning the palms towards you)

In order to do this you I’d suggest either using a barbell for 1 arm curls, grabbing dumbbells towards one side (towards the outside if holding the dumbbells with palms facing you), or if you’ve got adjustable weight dumbbells you can even weight the two sides unevenly (again, you want the “inside” to be heavier).

Then you can either just keep the wrists supinated, or actually supinate/rotate them while curling (obviously cannot be done with the barbell option).

Because only the biceps perform supination, and none of the other arm flexors, this will increase biceps involvement in the movement.[/quote]

Sentoguy, great information right here. Very interesting you suggest gripping the DB in an offset manner. This makes perfect sense to me, because lately I’ve found that, on the preacher curl machine, if I tuck my elbows close together and maintain a regular grip on the bar, i find it targets my biceps better, and this is essentially what you are saying to do with the dumbbells. I will definitely be doing these in the future.

I have been training for 4 years and have experienced the same problem for the past 2. I’m actually surprised to see a thread about this. You are the first person I’ve ever heard of to have this problem besides myself. While I think these guys are giving sound advice, I hope you will find my ability to directly relate to you helpful.

I’ll give you some info on myself just so you can compare how similar your situation is to mine.

I am 6 feet tall and 198 lbs. My forearms (specifically my brachioradialis) get pumped from curling, rowing, pullups, shrugs, and front and side shoulder raises if I go heavy enough. My forearms measure 12.5 inches while my upper arms are only 14 inches when unflexed. I know my arms are on the small side, but when you look at them, the weird proportions are obvious.

Here is what I’ve found that works best for me.

Do Triceps before biceps. (I dont know why, but it just works better…)

Incline dumbell curls are by far the best exercise for me. I let my arms hang back as far as possible and keep them there. No using the shoulder on this one. I even contract my back to pull my arms farther back. Stay lighter and squeeze so it hurts.

Next I do machine preacher curls with my elbows rotated in (towards each other) as much as possible. I still feel my bis working on this, but towards the end I already start losing my pump. Like I said, nothing comes close to incline curls for me.

To be honest, I dont feel any other exercises. The point is to find exercises that actually do work for you and stick with them.

If you’re doing any direct forearm work, DONT. Dont do barbell curls, EZ bar curls, close grip, reverse grip or hammer grip.

I know I wrote a lot and it wasn’t very organized, but I really have a lot to say on this topic because I’ve been coping with it and experimenting with different exercises for a while.

Shillick, thanks for having my back on this one. In my latest workout I simulated incline DB curls by standing very far away on the pulley and keeping perfect form while curling. I definitely recommend these, because for the first time in a longg while my biceps were actually sore the next day. I think in the future I will be doing incline DB curls with lighter weight, followed by “incline” cable curls.

I haven’t yet tried the preacher curl/wrist supination and offset DB curls yet but I will definitely use those for several weeks and see how I respond.

[quote]Cronus wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
So, let me ask these stupid questions:

How tall are you, what do you weigh?

Your profile says you’re 20, which means you’ve been ‘lifting’ since you were 15.

Have your arms grown at all in 5 years of working out?

Have other bodyparts grown at all as a result of hitting the weights?[/quote]

No doubt some great advice on here, a lot of movements I’ve never really considered before.

To answer your questions, I turn 20 in two weeks. I am only 171 lbs. but i look heavier. My arms have grown several inches since I’ve started training, and I wouldn’t say they have stopped growing, but rather I just can’t feel the actual biceps after I train them. My body has grown proportionally as I have gotten bigger. I took a few progress pics about 6-11 months ago that I can post. Also, I am just shy of 5’9’'.

[/quote]

Great advice so far. I picked up a couple things myself!

Cronus- that’s what I was getting at. I give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re growing, so you actually are stimulating those muscles. I would venture that many people don’t get DOMS after a biceps workout.

Maybe given some of the great advice so far, you’ll be able to walk out of the gym feeling like your biceps are ready to explode. What did it for me was using cables and preacher curls. With cables, I’ve found that I either have to:

  • have the cables at shoulder height and curl sideways in towards the chest (not hands at/above head), or
  • holding 2 cables stand in the middle and curl in at about 30 deg below horizontal

If I try to cable curl with hands up (like striking a double biceps pose), I find it’s very uncomfortable and I don’t feel it as much.

If I cable curl with a low pully up, I don’t get good leverage for some reason.

Experiment and find where your ‘sweet spot’ is. Try holding the contraction with a pronounced supinations (twisting your pinky inward).

These things worked for me, they may/may not work for you.

I NEVER ever got a DOMS in my biceps, not even back on the very first days. Incline curls sound like a good idea, haven’t tried them ever.

[quote]Cronus wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
Try what kingbeef suggested, doing curls with your wrist cocked back and squeeze the fuck out of your biceps at the top of the movement. Not flexing your arm, but just squeezing the biceps itself. Sounds like you don’t have a very good MMC and you’re focusing on the forearm instead.[/quote]

As much as I try to focus on the bicep itself, my forearm gets pumped and starts to fatigue so quickly its difficult to keep up. I can pinwheel curl 90lb dumbbells for reps (with a decent amount of “body english”) but I can hardly rep out 85lb. barbell curls (even then my forearms take over) so in addition to having a poor MMC, I also think it might be a strength imbalance. [/quote]
That’s what we’re trying to tell you. Keeping the wrist cocked back helps take the forearm flexors out of the picture, as some of them cross the elbow joint.

Bring the weight down until you learn how to focus on the biceps. This is probably the most important thing you can do right now. If your forearms are taking over, it means your biceps aren’t strong enough to handle the load on their own. Cut the weight in half and focus on squeezing the biceps ONLY.

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
Bring the weight down until you learn how to focus on the biceps. This is probably the most important thing you can do right now. If your forearms are taking over, it means your biceps aren’t strong enough to handle the load on their own. Cut the weight in half and focus on squeezing the biceps ONLY.[/quote]

I would echo this advice, as this was absolutely a problem for me for years.

Another tip that helped me tremendously was learning to stretch my biceps. Not just between sets and at home (although that helped), but feeling a stretch in the biceps at the start of each rep - a pretty common bodybuilding rule of thumb is “the greater the stretch, the greater the contraction” and I have found this to be true for every muscle group. This also forces you to isolate the bicep, and strengthen it through it’s entire range of motion.

SteelyD thanks a lot for these pointers I will be in the gym today hitting biceps hard.

JayP - Every movement that I do today I will make sure to keep my wrists cocked to the fullest.

Mr. Popular - Lately I have been avoiding going to full extension on curls because immediately starting the concentric part of the lift, my forearm would get pumped. But now i know that this is because I have been cocking my wrist the wrong way. No doubt I will be committed to full reps in the future.

[quote]Cronus wrote:

Mr. Popular - Lately I have been avoiding going to full extension on curls because immediately starting the concentric part of the lift, my forearm would get pumped. But now i know that this is because I have been cocking my wrist the wrong way. No doubt I will be committed to full reps in the future.[/quote]

I know the feeling you’re referring to, and the way I got around that is by getting the full stretch at the bottom of the reps on barbell curls or dumbbell curls or whatever (by flexing the triceps), then flexing the bicep before I start the rep (while the hands are still relaxed). While completing the rep thinking “elbows DOWN, palms UP”.

I never liked that whole “cock your wrist back” thing because (a) it hurt, and (b) it was just a temporary way of avoiding too much forearm stimulation, rather than learning the right way to isolate and focus on the bicep.

I will say that you definitely don’t want any wrist movement though. Just keep it locked in neutral, stretch at the bottom of each rep, and get your elbows under the bar while you curl = how I brought my biceps up from being a big weak point to matching the rest of my body.

[quote]Cronus wrote:

JayP - Every movement that I do today I will make sure to keep my wrists cocked to the fullest.

[/quote]
I should have been more specific with that recommendation, really. It’s more a way to cut out the forearm flexors so that you can focus more on the bi’s and get your MMC down, not a hard and fast rule that should be followed on every movement. I like this method for standing DB curls and incline curls, not for barbell work.