[quote]mse2us wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]mse2us wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]mse2us wrote:
One thing I can say for certain is the fact that the scriptural evidence in the Bible is so strong and the signs that all can see with their own eyes are so clear which all point to 1914 being the year Jesus became king in heaven, when Satan was kicked out of heaven, when Jesus presence started and when the last days began.
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I dont know about you guys, but I beleive that Jesus has been king in heaven forever. How do I know this? In the begining God created the Heavens and the Earth. God is on the throne in Genesis, and God is on the throne in Revelation. Never was God not on the throne. He is King in Heaven and King of Earth.
Got one more thought of questions for the JWs. If the end of days started in 1914 when will Jesus be returning? I mean if you know when he started to reign in heaven when will he reign on Earth? When will your prophesy, made after the year 1914, be discredited, or are your prophesies the same as a fortune teller? So vague that when Jesus returns you will say, “See we were right.” We had 1000 years past 1914 for the prophesy to be correct, but when 2914 comes around and he has not returned would you then agree the JWs are full or crap, or will the prophecy be changed again?
Just had a thought. Jesus died late Friday afternoon, was burried before night fall on Friday, dead all day Saturday, and rose on Sunday Morning. As we all know he was not dead for 3, 24 hour periods, but was dead for 3 days, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Maybe that Jesus started to reign in heaven in 1914 the millenium reign may have ended at the turn of the millenium in the year 2000. Not a full 1000 years, but a millenium that started in 1000 AD. I would say your prophesy of 1914 is false based on these assumptions. Got a new prophesy?[/quote]
No Jesus has not been king in heaven forever. The Bible clearly shows that Jesus is given the kingship in heaven. Ezekiel 21:26,27 is a prophecy which states that the crown will be removed from a wicked King which turned out to be Zedekiah. The prophecy then states that the crown will be given to the one who comes and has the legal right. King Zedekiah was the last king in the line of David to sit on God’s throne. Jesus as a descendant of David is the one who has the legal right. Isaiah 9:6 states:
“6 For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7 To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.”
That prophecy makes it clear that Jesus will sit on the throne of King David which has been vacant since King Zedekiah was removed by the Babylonians. Daniel 7:12, 13 show a scene in heaven where Jesus aproaches Jehovah and is given a kingdom. Daniel 7:13,14 states:
13 “I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.”
Again, this is Jesus approaching God and God gives him the kingdom just like God gave King David his kingship.
Revelation, which is a future vision describes a battle in heaven where Satan is kicked out of heaven and thrown down to the earth. After that event God’s Kingdom is officially announced with Jesus having authority over this kingdom which means he is king.
Revelation 12:7-10 states:
“7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!”
This is when Jesus becomes king in heaven which is after Satan gets kicked out of heaven. Once Satan is kicked out of heaven this spells WOE for the people of the earth according to Revelation 12:12. Remember this is a future vision that was given to John and when he writes Revelation the above events did not yet happen.
So no Jesus has not been king in heaven forever.[/quote]
So I am assuming you think the time in heaven is the same as “Earth time”? Why would God be Pigeon holed to our calendar?[/quote]
No, the time in heaven is not the same as time on earth. There are two places in the Bible that mention how long one day is for God. 2 Peter 3:8 which states that “one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.” And Psalms 90:4 states “that for a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past.”
So in God’s time 1000 humans years is one day but the scriptures I mentioned in my previous post do not reference any specific time period but Isaiah 9:6 does state that Jesus will sit upon the throne of David. So we know that when David was king Jesus was not king over God’s Kingdom. There were 19 Kings in the line of David from the tribe of Judah that sat on the Davidic throne spanning at least four centuries. The last king in the line of David was Zedekiah and as Ezekiel 21:26,27 states the crown or kingship is removed from him and is given to he who the legal right which is Jesus. This happened in 607 B.C.E. So the Davidic throne in the line of David from the tribe of Judah would remain vacant until Jesus who is a descendant of David sits on the throne and becomes king.
How do we know that it happened in 1914? First, the Bible Students in the 1800’s used the prophecy in Daniel 4:10-16 about a kingship represented by a tree being cut down and restrained for seven times to interpret when the trampling by the nations on Jerusalem would end which Jesus mentions at Luke 21:24. They realized that the trampling started in
607 B.C.E. when Jersalem was destroyed by the Babylonians and the last Davidic king was removed. This took them to 1914. Second, Revelation 12:10 states that as a result of Satan being kicked out of heaven, God’s kingdom comes into power with Jesus as it’s king. At Revelation 12:12 as a result of Satan being kicked out of heaven and thrown down to earth the verse states that he will cause “WOE” to the people of the earth. We can clearly see the results of Satans anger. Because the first WOE Satan causes is WAR which was a world war that never occurred before. If you look at the four horsemen of the apocalypse at Revelation 6, the first rider in white is given a crown or kingship, he has a bow and he goes forth to complete a conquest. This horseman is the newly crowned Jesus. The next horseman that rides after the newly crowned Jesus and continues to ride with Jesus is war. The first sign Jesus said would mark his presence and the conclusion of the system of things mentioned at Matthew 24:3 is War. This is the start of the WOE Satan brings to the earth because of him being kicked out of heaven which is marked by a clear, discernable event. The other two horsemen that ride with the newly crowned Jesus at Revelation 6 are famine and pestilence which again is more WOE that Satan brings on the earth. So when Jesus becomes king he kicks Satan out of heaven down to the earth. As a result of Satan being kicked out of heaven he is angry because he knows his time is short so he causes trouble for the people on the earth. Some of the problems Satan causes are symbolized by horsemen who appear after Jesus becomes king and ride with Jesus for a period of time. They are War, Famine and Pestilence. This is the reason Jesus is riding alongside 3 bad horsemen. These three bad horsemen that ride alongside the newly crowned Jesus is a result of Satan causing WOE to the earth and the WOE comes in the form of WAR, FAMINE and PESTILENCE. These are also three of the signs Jesus mentions at Matthew 24:3-7 and Luke 21:10,11 that would mark his parousia or presence and the conclusion of the system of things.
So again, the significance of 1914 is when Jesus became king in heaven, which was when Satan got kicked out of heaven down to the earth and when Jesus presence and the conclusion of the system of things started. Due to Satan having great anger because he knows his time is short, he causes WOE or trouble for the people of the earth. The WOE or trouble comes in the form of WAR, FAMINE and PESTILENCE which Jesus told his disciples would be some of the signs that would identify his presence in heaven as king and the conclusion of the system of things. All of this is based on the Bible and the Bible only.
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Ugh, that was actually painful to read to be honest… This is what Irish referred to as tortured logic. You want to know when Satan came to the Earth? It was the day sin aka, evil entered the world. Who do you think tempted Eve in the garden? What planet was it, Mars?
Jesus revealed his kingship in the gospels talking to Pilate. “If my kingdom was of this world…” He is speaking present tense and if I am not mistaken the Crucifixion of Christ occurred between 29 AD and 33 AD, not 1914. Since he said this plainly at that time it stands to reason that a direct saying would trump a warping of Daniel or Revelation.
I am also very weary of anybody who claims to have detailed knowledge of the goings on in heavenâ?¦We donâ??t even have a good grasp of earthly happenings, how in the hell are we supposed to know what goes on in heaven.
Now if you are biblical literalists, like you claim, then you will know that the time of the end times, Armageddon, or what ever you call it is NOT in the Bible. When Jesus said that nobody knows the day or the hour save for the Father, that means nobody knows and nobody can know. Itâ??s not knowable. â?? MT 24:36 and MT 24:42 Further, Jesus warns of those who claim to know and calls them false prophets.
So, if nobody, but the Father knows when the end times are, why then, should I trust your interpretation? Are you not playing the role of the false prophet but saying, this has occurred and that is coming? When Jesus says you cannot know and it will come when you least expect it, should I trust his words, or your interpretation. Should I listen to you or the word of God?
You are making bold claims of knowledge so these are not unreasonable questions. You are claiming to know that which Jesus said canâ??t be known and only false prophets would claim knowledge of…
