Trial By Written Declaration

Off Topic
81

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
Here my is notice, I did fail to provide proof of insurance at the scene (later found it in my car), however, I did not count that infraction in the total cost as it is correctable.

[/quote]

Why is it that these types of threads always seem to have an “oh yeah, there was also this part that I failed to mention” several pages into the thread? How do you fail to mention this part??? Upon further reading of this thread and looking at the links provided, the fine for the speeding is $154 plus court fees. That’s not a terrible fine.

DB[/quote]

Well as my courtesy notice stated, My bail is $1112. If i get the insurance part taken care of, the ticket goes to $712 dollars, which is still an obscene amount. Everyone is telling me that I am lucky that the ticket is so low because the insurance charge could be as high as $800.

When I look at it, and then the speeding charge…$800 + 254 (maximum speeding charge) is still LESS than what I got…so I suppose I am actually not so lucky.

I suppose I am trying to figure out if I can only get PART of my insurance fine reduced…apparently the first 400 and not the last 450.

82

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

So, was or is it worth it?

[/quote]

Wait…are you serious? I made a serious thread asking for help…Why do I keep getting people asking these dumb fucking questions?[/quote]

So you are facing upward of $700.00 in fines, and evaluating the risk/reward continuum of your actions is a dumb fucking question?

[/quote]

Yes it was a dumb fucking question…Was it worth it to go 13 over the speed limit and get a huge fine? What the FUCK do you think I am going to say? The obviousness of the answer is what makes it a dumb fucking question.[/quote]

Which you are avoiding answering by using rhetoric and the fallacy of the obvious.

83

[quote]davidcox1 wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]davidcox1 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
Here my is notice, I did fail to provide proof of insurance at the scene (later found it in my car), however, I did not count that infraction in the total cost as it is correctable.

As you can see, the total bill is significantly more than $712[/quote]

I would go and hope for leniency on the part of the judge.

Good luck to you!

[/quote]

Right…The question is not whether or not I am going to contest the ticket (I definitely am). The question was, “does anyone have experience with trials by written declaration?”[/quote]

There are no trials by written declaration. As your citation indicates, you can admit fault and pay the fine or appear in court to contest it.
[/quote]

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/traffic/common.htm#gotocourt

Must I go to court?
If you got a ticket for an infraction (like running a stop sign), you can probably do everything you need to do by mail.

You must go to court for a misdemeanor.

[ Top of Page ]

How do I ask for a trial?
If you think you’re not guilty, ask for a trial.

You can go to the courthouse on the date shown on your ticket and ask for a trial.

For most infractions you can send a letter to your court asking for a court trial or a trial by mail (also called a “trial by written declaration”).[u] You’ll have to pay the bail even if you want to have a trial. Send your letter by certified or registered mail, at least 5 days before the “appearance date” on your ticket.[/u]

If you ask for a trial by mail, the court clerk will give or mail you forms. Use these forms to explain why you want a trial.[/quote]

To be clear, the trial itself does not occur “by mail”; rather, you are asking “by mail” for a trial. Here’s the paragraph from the link above that makes this most clear:

“If you ask for a trial by mail, the court clerk will give or mail you forms. Use these forms to explain why you want a trial.”

A trial requires certain procedural safeguards that can only be afforded in person. Rarely, courts will allow some participants in a trial to participate by other means (such as telephone, VTC), but there is no such thing as an entire trial proceeding occurring via the US Postal Service.
[/quote]

aaah I getcha. I read it as you saying there was no such thing as a “Trial by Declaration.”

Seems like you pretty much have good info on all this so thanks for clarifying.

84

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

So, was or is it worth it?

[/quote]

Wait…are you serious? I made a serious thread asking for help…Why do I keep getting people asking these dumb fucking questions?[/quote]

So you are facing upward of $700.00 in fines, and evaluating the risk/reward continuum of your actions is a dumb fucking question?

[/quote]

Yes it was a dumb fucking question…Was it worth it to go 13 over the speed limit and get a huge fine? What the FUCK do you think I am going to say? The obviousness of the answer is what makes it a dumb fucking question.[/quote]

Which you are avoiding answering by using rhetoric and the fallacy of the obvious.
[/quote]

Can’t you tell by the profanity that he has answered the question? I know the more I cuss the more I think I am answering the question.

85

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

So, was or is it worth it?

[/quote]

Wait…are you serious? I made a serious thread asking for help…Why do I keep getting people asking these dumb fucking questions?[/quote]

So you are facing upward of $700.00 in fines, and evaluating the risk/reward continuum of your actions is a dumb fucking question?

[/quote]

Yes it was a dumb fucking question…Was it worth it to go 13 over the speed limit and get a huge fine? What the FUCK do you think I am going to say? The obviousness of the answer is what makes it a dumb fucking question.[/quote]

Which you are avoiding answering by using rhetoric and the fallacy of the obvious.
[/quote]

Can’t you tell by the profanity that he has answered the question? I know the more I cuss the more I think I am answering the question.

[/quote]

Well isn’t what I think he thinks Obvious? Geez!

btw… I think he thinks that by doing what he is doing he will somehow obfuscate the idea that he feels that he shouldn’t be fined for this regardless of whether or not he did it. But he did. And if he gets this rattled by some goof ball over the internet a traffic court judge is going to turn him upside down and shake out all of his money and he knows it. Cause when you stand there and tell bold faced lies to judges they get insulted that you think they are dumb enough to believe it. He’d rather lie to them by mail, which will also fail. I mean really, he can’t even do it right over the internet.

86

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

So, was or is it worth it?

[/quote]

Wait…are you serious? I made a serious thread asking for help…Why do I keep getting people asking these dumb fucking questions?[/quote]

So you are facing upward of $700.00 in fines, and evaluating the risk/reward continuum of your actions is a dumb fucking question?

[/quote]

Yes it was a dumb fucking question…Was it worth it to go 13 over the speed limit and get a huge fine? What the FUCK do you think I am going to say? The obviousness of the answer is what makes it a dumb fucking question.[/quote]

Which you are avoiding answering by using rhetoric and the fallacy of the obvious.
[/quote]

Can’t you tell by the profanity that he has answered the question? I know the more I cuss the more I think I am answering the question.

[/quote]

Well isn’t what I think he thinks Obvious? Geez!

btw… I think he thinks that by doing what he is doing he will somehow obfuscate the idea that he feels that he shouldn’t be fined for this regardless of whether or not he did it. But he did. And if he gets this rattled by some goof ball over the internet a traffic court judge is going to turn him upside down and shake out all of his money and he knows it. Cause when you stand there and tell bold faced lies to judges they get insulted that you think they are dumb enough to believe it. He’d rather lie to them by mail, which will also fail. I mean really, he can’t even do it right over the internet.

[/quote]

I think I owe you $10.00 for the use of the word “obfuscate.” =)

This thread did make me check in my glovebox to make sure I had my proof of insurance so this thread was a win for me.

87

Having been on both sides (Cop and Defendant) in California, I have a couple of words of advice.

Go in an plead guilty. Ask for a reduced fine as it is a financial hardship. They almost always reduce the fine significantly.

Then they will usually offer you trafic school if you qualify.

Better to do it in person as a written declaration will get shit on.

88

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

So, was or is it worth it?

[/quote]

Wait…are you serious? I made a serious thread asking for help…Why do I keep getting people asking these dumb fucking questions?[/quote]

So you are facing upward of $700.00 in fines, and evaluating the risk/reward continuum of your actions is a dumb fucking question?

[/quote]

Yes it was a dumb fucking question…Was it worth it to go 13 over the speed limit and get a huge fine? What the FUCK do you think I am going to say? The obviousness of the answer is what makes it a dumb fucking question.[/quote]

Which you are avoiding answering by using rhetoric and the fallacy of the obvious.
[/quote]

Can’t you tell by the profanity that he has answered the question? I know the more I cuss the more I think I am answering the question.

[/quote]

Well isn’t what I think he thinks Obvious? Geez!

btw… I think he thinks that by doing what he is doing he will somehow obfuscate the idea that he feels that he shouldn’t be fined for this regardless of whether or not he did it. But he did. And if he gets this rattled by some goof ball over the internet a traffic court judge is going to turn him upside down and shake out all of his money and he knows it. Cause when you stand there and tell bold faced lies to judges they get insulted that you think they are dumb enough to believe it. He’d rather lie to them by mail, which will also fail. I mean really, he can’t even do it right over the internet.
[/quote]

You make it sound like I have never been to court before. Seriously, please… do not post any more in my thread.

89

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

So, was or is it worth it?

[/quote]

Wait…are you serious? I made a serious thread asking for help…Why do I keep getting people asking these dumb fucking questions?[/quote]

So you are facing upward of $700.00 in fines, and evaluating the risk/reward continuum of your actions is a dumb fucking question?

[/quote]

Yes it was a dumb fucking question…Was it worth it to go 13 over the speed limit and get a huge fine? What the FUCK do you think I am going to say? The obviousness of the answer is what makes it a dumb fucking question.[/quote]

Which you are avoiding answering by using rhetoric and the fallacy of the obvious.
[/quote]

Can’t you tell by the profanity that he has answered the question? I know the more I cuss the more I think I am answering the question.

[/quote]

Well isn’t what I think he thinks Obvious? Geez!

btw… I think he thinks that by doing what he is doing he will somehow obfuscate the idea that he feels that he shouldn’t be fined for this regardless of whether or not he did it. But he did. And if he gets this rattled by some goof ball over the internet a traffic court judge is going to turn him upside down and shake out all of his money and he knows it. Cause when you stand there and tell bold faced lies to judges they get insulted that you think they are dumb enough to believe it. He’d rather lie to them by mail, which will also fail. I mean really, he can’t even do it right over the internet.
[/quote]

You make it sound like I have never been to court before. Seriously, please… do not post any more in my thread.[/quote]

oh noooo I believe you’ve had lots of tickets and probably been to court quite a few times. Just not sure if you learned anything from it. But hopefully this will be the last time!

Good luck in court.

90

I’ve gotten a lot of tickets in the state of California (I ride a motorcycle and those things just do slow…).

Did you have insurance at the time of the incident? If you did then you need to show that when you go to court. Uninsured motorists are a HUGE problem here (I’m in SoCal) and courts take a dim view of it. I would go to court and plead guilty to speeding (big deal…I’ve had speeding tickets that cost as much as your entire bail amount…yes, that was for speeds a “tad” faster than you were going). I would then explain that you had insurance but you had removed the proof out of your car for some reason. Were you cool with the officer?

james

92

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

So, was or is it worth it?

[/quote]

Wait…are you serious? I made a serious thread asking for help…Why do I keep getting people asking these dumb fucking questions?[/quote]

So you are facing upward of $700.00 in fines, and evaluating the risk/reward continuum of your actions is a dumb fucking question?

[/quote]

Yes it was a dumb fucking question…Was it worth it to go 13 over the speed limit and get a huge fine? What the FUCK do you think I am going to say? The obviousness of the answer is what makes it a dumb fucking question.[/quote]

Which you are avoiding answering by using rhetoric and the fallacy of the obvious.
[/quote]

Can’t you tell by the profanity that he has answered the question? I know the more I cuss the more I think I am answering the question.

[/quote]

Well isn’t what I think he thinks Obvious? Geez!

btw… I think he thinks that by doing what he is doing he will somehow obfuscate the idea that he feels that he shouldn’t be fined for this regardless of whether or not he did it. But he did. And if he gets this rattled by some goof ball over the internet a traffic court judge is going to turn him upside down and shake out all of his money and he knows it. Cause when you stand there and tell bold faced lies to judges they get insulted that you think they are dumb enough to believe it. He’d rather lie to them by mail, which will also fail. I mean really, he can’t even do it right over the internet.
[/quote]

You make it sound like I have never been to court before. Seriously, please… do not post any more in my thread.[/quote]

So you can’t answer a simple question without rhetoric or fallacy AND you have done this before?

Come on man. You have done this dance before and you don’t know what the next step is?

You started this thread to garner sympathy for a misdeed. You aren’t getting any.

93

[quote]pushharder wrote:
OP, it’s unfair to all who responded on this thread to not disclose the “no proof of insurance” part of the equation until several pages into it.

That being said, it’s still an unreasonably high fine (not talking the $154 for the actual speeding) for one who can prove he actually had the auto insured but just failed to carry the paperwork.[/quote]

But it is a well known part of the vehicle code that you MUST carry proof of insurance at all times. We don’t know if his fine will be reduced upon his presenting proof at the time of the infraction. Also, we are so close to the border it is a big problem with folks from south of the border not having insurance.

The OP absolutely knew he had a duty to carry proof of insurance. If he crashes into someone without insurance it will cost everyone more than $700.00 in most cases.

95

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
OP, it’s unfair to all who responded on this thread to not disclose the “no proof of insurance” part of the equation until several pages into it.

That being said, it’s still an unreasonably high fine (not talking the $154 for the actual speeding) for one who can prove he actually had the auto insured but just failed to carry the paperwork.[/quote]

But it is a well known part of the vehicle code that you MUST carry proof of insurance at all times. We don’t know if his fine will be reduced upon his presenting proof at the time of the infraction. Also, we are so close to the border it is a big problem with folks from south of the border not having insurance.

The OP absolutely knew he had a duty to carry proof of insurance. If he crashes into someone without insurance it will cost everyone more than $700.00 in most cases.
[/quote]

Here in MT if you’re caught with no papers but later produce them proving you had insurance in effect at the time of the infraction you get off Scot free.

I wasn’t disputing the necessity of carrying the insurance itself, I was whining that the fine still seemed high for having the insurance but not having the paperwork on board. It is VERY EASY to forget to put your current proof of ins in your vehicle and not worthy of a several hundred dollar slap on the wrist.[/quote]

He might have a reduction in fine, or I suppose even no fine if he proves he had insurance at the time. But I bet he won’t forget to keep proof of insurance with him in the car from now on.

I actually don’t think the fine is excessive especially if then going to the court and proving you had insurance will result in a reduction. I think if you don’t have insurance you should have your car taken away. Don’t drive without insurance.

I pay extra on my insurance in case of an uninsured driver accident.

96

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
Here my is notice, I did fail to provide proof of insurance at the scene (later found it in my car), however, I did not count that infraction in the total cost as it is correctable.

[/quote]

Why is it that these types of threads always seem to have an “oh yeah, there was also this part that I failed to mention” several pages into the thread? How do you fail to mention this part??? Upon further reading of this thread and looking at the links provided, the fine for the speeding is $154 plus court fees. That’s not a terrible fine.

DB[/quote]

Well as my courtesy notice stated, My bail is $1112. If i get the insurance part taken care of, the ticket goes to $712 dollars, which is still an obscene amount. Everyone is telling me that I am lucky that the ticket is so low because the insurance charge could be as high as $800.

When I look at it, and then the speeding charge…$800 + 254 (maximum speeding charge) is still LESS than what I got…so I suppose I am actually not so lucky.

I suppose I am trying to figure out if I can only get PART of my insurance fine reduced…apparently the first 400 and not the last 450.[/quote]

The $800 insurance charge has to get the additional court fees added to it as well, so it is more than $800. There are more and more “surcharges” and “fees” that municipalities are throwing into everything these days since the states and federal govts are cutting back more and more on support. I don’t think those add-ons are recoverable/refundable. I guess you need to go to court and see what you can get out of.

You can also request community service in lieu of paying the fine.

DB

97

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
Here my is notice, I did fail to provide proof of insurance at the scene (later found it in my car), however, I did not count that infraction in the total cost as it is correctable.

[/quote]

Why is it that these types of threads always seem to have an “oh yeah, there was also this part that I failed to mention” several pages into the thread? How do you fail to mention this part??? Upon further reading of this thread and looking at the links provided, the fine for the speeding is $154 plus court fees. That’s not a terrible fine.

DB[/quote]

Well as my courtesy notice stated, My bail is $1112. If i get the insurance part taken care of, the ticket goes to $712 dollars, which is still an obscene amount. Everyone is telling me that I am lucky that the ticket is so low because the insurance charge could be as high as $800.

When I look at it, and then the speeding charge…$800 + 254 (maximum speeding charge) is still LESS than what I got…so I suppose I am actually not so lucky.

I suppose I am trying to figure out if I can only get PART of my insurance fine reduced…apparently the first 400 and not the last 450.[/quote]

The $800 insurance charge has to get the additional court fees added to it as well, so it is more than $800. There are more and more “surcharges” and “fees” that municipalities are throwing into everything these days since the states and federal govts are cutting back more and more on support. I don’t think those add-ons are recoverable/refundable. I guess you need to go to court and see what you can get out of.

You can also request community service in lieu of paying the fine.

DB
[/quote]

Holey Moley! You can do community service for a traffic fine? very good to know.

Although I have actually started leaving earlier and driving slower to get to work. I mean I probably only save 5 minutes but I could pay a heap of money for a ticket.

98

Went to room c-10 today and talked to the clerk. I got my ticket reduced to $258… Still a little high for my taste, but then again I have yet to contest it.

I got my papers for the written declaration, and will fill them out and turn them in shortly.

Thank you everyone who was helpful, and to everyone else, I sincerely hope that you are not this obnoxious in your everyday lives.

99

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
Went to room c-10 today and talked to the clerk. I got my ticket reduced to $258… Still a little high for my taste, but then again I have yet to contest it.

I got my papers for the written declaration, and will fill them out and turn them in shortly.

Thank you everyone who was helpful, and to everyone else, I sincerely hope that you are not this obnoxious in your everyday lives.[/quote]

So now we know the real cost of the speeding ticket. Still high, but not ridiculously so.

DB

100

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
Thank you everyone who was helpful, and to everyone else, I sincerely hope that you are not this obnoxious in your everyday lives.[/quote]

You’re welcome.
I should clarify though- In real life I kick baby carrying grandmas down upward traveling escalators as I rush to the circus to throw firecrackers at the elephants.