Driver Responsibility Fees

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1

Does anyone live in a state that has them? I do and its breakin the backs of a lot of people. Its an unfair law meant to target the little guy.

Big government once again comes and grabs you by the throat and tell you to pay up or else. My ex girlfriend ended up going to jail because of her fees. Never mind that she is a single unemployed mother, Lansing got to get paid, gnomesayin!

Alot of those fees are unjust and hurt the people who just dont have the money. I wish I knew of a way to organize a mass boycott.

2

I dont look at cops the same either, the police is just a collection agency for the state.

3

You mean these?
http://www.michigan.gov/driverresponsibility

I think it is a great idea and it plays to one of the most basic economic principles. Taxing a behavior decreases that behavior. It’s a win/win situation for the state and the people.

Drivers (theoretically, if the fees are high enough anyways) drive safer to avoid the fees, thereby saving other’s lives, frustrations, and money; and the state has more income that could be used to lower other taxes.

I don’t feel sorry for you or your girlfriend for being a poor, disobedient driver.

4

It has nothing to do with being a bad driver and everything with the state wanting to drain the life out of people. Maybe you love to hand over free money to the state just because they ask for it, if you love it that much send me some.

Read these informative articles tedro:

Grits for Breakfast: Bad TX law fills roads with unlicensed drivers, county jails with non-crooks (this one is in Texas)

http://blogpublic.lib.msu.edu/index.php/2008/07/09/michigan-s-driver-responsibility-fee-a-h?blog=5

5

[quote]tedro wrote:
You mean these?

I think it is a great idea and it plays to one of the most basic economic principles. Taxing a behavior decreases that behavior. It’s a win/win situation for the state and the people.

Drivers (theoretically, if the fees are high enough anyways) drive safer to avoid the fees, thereby saving other’s lives, frustrations, and money; and the state has more income that could be used to lower other taxes.

I don’t feel sorry for you or your girlfriend for being a poor, disobedient driver.[/quote]

And of course getting your info from a state website, theyre going to play it up and have you to believe that thyre just doing their part to keep everyone safe and warm.

Meanwhile, Detroit is the # 3 most dangerous city in the nation for violent crime. Yea, charging someone thousands of dollars for driving on a suspended license just makes me feel a whole lot safer walking down a dark street at night.

6

And at any rate, the people of Michigan were never asked to vote on this madness! I wonder why…

7

It’s annoying.

I live in NY, a state that has the DRA law, and it sucks.

I rarely get tickets, so it’s not like I’m some awful driver who needs to be taught a lesson - in fact, this speeder that I got last year was my first ticket in almost 10 years.

100 fine, and then another 300 over 3 years at 100 a year. So really, it’s a 400 dollar fine. Believe me, I’m all for stopping shitty, aggressive drivers, but I do think this is extreme - it’s like a fine, and then a triple, hidden fine you don’t find out about until later.

If anything, lay something like that on repeat offenders, but screwing a good driver with a clean record is shit…

8

[quote]tedro wrote:
You mean these?
http://www.michigan.gov/driverresponsibility

I think it is a great idea and it plays to one of the most basic economic principles. Taxing a behavior decreases that behavior. It’s a win/win situation for the state and the people.

Drivers (theoretically, if the fees are high enough anyways) drive safer to avoid the fees, thereby saving other’s lives, frustrations, and money; and the state has more income that could be used to lower other taxes.

I don’t feel sorry for you or your girlfriend for being a poor, disobedient driver.[/quote]

Tedro, Insurance companies already penalize people who have high points on thier license. A license should be either had or not had, either have one, or take it away for bad driving. You shouldn’t add in fees for people who pile up some ponts. ALOT of the people I know with multiple points are hardworking people with long commutes.

They speed in packs with everyone else on the highways, but the cops are going to pull people over regardless. If you get caught 2 times doing 80 in a 65, which everyone does, it’s big points on your license. I hope the view is nice from your high horse. Us people who live in the real world would rather the government back the fuck off with thier monopoly on stealing from the people.

V

9

[quote]clip11 wrote:
It has nothing to do with being a bad driver and everything with the state wanting to drain the life out of people. Maybe you love to hand over free money to the state just because they ask for it, if you love it that much send me some.

Read these informative articles tedro:

Grits for Breakfast: Bad TX law fills roads with unlicensed drivers, county jails with non-crooks (this one is in Texas)

http://blogpublic.lib.msu.edu/index.php/2008/07/09/michigan-s-driver-responsibility-fee-a-h?blog=5
[/quote]

Encouraging good driving habits drains the lift out of people? Pitiful.

This has everything to do with bad driving, and for the love of God you get 7 points before the fee is even assessed. It has nothing to do with handing over free money. The rules of the road are very clear.

If you don’t want to follow them then don’t drive. If you choose to drive then you must accept the fact that there are repercussions for breaking the laws, and just because you are in a hurry or your gf is unemployed with a kid does not put you above them.

The rules of the road aren’t arbitrary. They truly are their for the safety of all. If a simple ticket does not do enough to deter bad driving then apparently the punishment is not working and needs to be harsher.

10

[quote]Vegita wrote:
Tedro, Insurance companies already penalize people who have high points on thier license. A license should be either had or not had, either have one, or take it away for bad driving. You shouldn’t add in fees for people who pile up some ponts.
[/quote]
What does the business of an insurance company have to do with the fees assessed by your local government? Insurance companies exist to profit.

They can’t do this by charging the same premium to all drivers, they must calculate the risk associated with each one. Higher risk means a higher premium must be charged in order to profit off of the driver. This is not a penalty, but simply a sound business model.

As they should. Speeding on the highways endagers innocent, law-abiding citizens. Thank them for me next time you get pulled over.

How is this stealing? It is punishment for a crime. Actually, it is even a choice to pay it. The only result of not paying it is a suspended license, so if you don’t want to pay the extra fees just quit driving.

11

Again, it’s a tremendous fee, and in my case certainly, the punishment did not fit the crime.

Did I speed? Yes. Did I deserve the 100 dollar ticket? Yes - but an additional 300 dollar fine on top of that is excessive and unfair, particularly to a driver with an otherwise spotless record.

12

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Again, it’s a tremendous fee, and in my case certainly, the punishment did not fit the crime.

Did I speed? Yes. Did I deserve the 100 dollar ticket? Yes - but an additional 300 dollar fine on top of that is excessive and unfair, particularly to a driver with an otherwise spotless record.

[/quote]

If this was a case where you simply made an honest mistake and accidentally ventured 5-10 mph over, I may agree with you. However, if you really have had a clean record for 10 years, then a little searching tells me you were going at least 21 mph over the limit, which is extremely excessive and dangerous to those drivers around you.

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/drp.htm
http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/license.htm#points

I bet you will think twice before you speed again, and if you do, then the punishment worked.

13

Tedro you said insurance companies exist to profit, but state government is not a company. It is not meant to profit itself, but the people. And if its a law thats hurting the people more than helping it should be abolished.

Let me give you a history lesson: What did the american revolution, the french revolution have in common? Taxes! Thats right, the government taking all they could get until people said to hell with this.

We pay sales tax, excessive vehicle registration fees (why should I have to pay $100 for someone to push a few buttons on a keyboard I can do that myself)property taxes, and income taxes.

And let me tell you how the state does people dirty around here. As you know, with the housing crisis, homes are losing value.

The state is charging people the same property taxes as they did when the houses had more value and they refuse to come reassess the property because it would lower taxes and the government wouldnt be able to steal as much money.

And I could go on…

14

They are fucking bullshit. I got a speeding ticket a few years ago here in MI, I got hit with 65 bucks for the ticket, then 300 fucking dollars over TWO years @ 150 a year.

I thought that after I paid my ticket, I was done with it. Then I get a letter from the Secretary of State telling me that I owe 150 in driver responsibility fees for the next two years.

I was LIVID, I wrote an expletive filled letter back to them, along with my check for 150.

Oooooohhhhh jus tthinking about it makes me mad. Totally unfair and unjust, they aren’t fees IT’S A FUCKING TAX. To call it anything else is just stupid.

15

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Again, it’s a tremendous fee, and in my case certainly, the punishment did not fit the crime.

Did I speed? Yes. Did I deserve the 100 dollar ticket? Yes - but an additional 300 dollar fine on top of that is excessive and unfair, particularly to a driver with an otherwise spotless record.

[/quote]

Same here man. The fee is just totally unfair. Here in MI many drivers simply can’t afford the fees, and have their licenses revoked. In order to get their licenses back they have to pay additional fees and court costs and shit, so they just drive without a license.

It’s just a money making scam, plain and simple. They aren’t interested in reducing traffic accidents, and promoting safe driving, they are just out to suck every last dollar out of the people as they can.

It’s a bullshit scam.

16

[quote]tedro wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Tedro, Insurance companies already penalize people who have high points on thier license. A license should be either had or not had, either have one, or take it away for bad driving. You shouldn’t add in fees for people who pile up some ponts.

What does the business of an insurance company have to do with the fees assessed by your local government? Insurance companies exist to profit.

They can’t do this by charging the same premium to all drivers, they must calculate the risk associated with each one. Higher risk means a higher premium must be charged in order to profit off of the driver. This is not a penalty, but simply a sound business model.

ALOT of the people I know with multiple points are hardworking people with long commutes. They speed in packs with everyone else on the highways, but the cops are going to pull people over regardless.

As they should. Speeding on the highways endagers innocent, law-abiding citizens. Thank them for me next time you get pulled over.

If you get caught 2 times doing 80 in a 65, which everyone does, I don’t. it’s big points on your license. I hope the view is nice from your high horse. Us people who live in the real world would rather the government back the fuck off with thier monopoly on stealing from the people.

V

How is this stealing? It is punishment for a crime. Actually, it is even a choice to pay it. The only result of not paying it is a suspended license, so if you don’t want to pay the extra fees just quit driving.
[/quote]

Its a choice, but not a free choice. A free choice means I can make a decision without having to be threatened with consequence or penalty.

If a robber puts a gun in your face and tells you to empty your pockets, you have a choice…but not a free choice. The choice you make is based out of fear for your life.

If it was a free choice then the robber wouldnt need a gun, he would just walk up to you and ask you to empty your pockets and if you refuse, no harm done, he would just walk away and go ask someone else.

Now this situation is not as extreme, but there is still severe consequence. If you cant afford to pay (because most people would if they had the money unless they were trying to make a point) then your license is suspended. But you still have to go to work, no reasonable person is going to quit their job.

You still have 1000 things to do. So most people will drive. And then if they are stopped and found they owe money they can be arrested.

My ex was in jail for almost a week over $300. So if owing the government $300 (only because they say you do, its not like they loaned it to you or you bought something) is an excuse they can use to take away your freedom, I dont think this is the vision the Founding Fathers of this country had in mine when they wrote the constitution.

17

And by the way, when im driving here at night in Detroit and im behind a red light on say 7 mile and Evergreen im not thinking “Man i hope that guy next to me has a valid drivers license.” Im thinking more like “Man i hope that guy doesnt try to carjack me.”

18

Rather than pay these mf’s all this damn money, I would rather for them to haul my ass of to county.

Thats right, id rather spend a few days in the county jail than pay these scam artists if I were in that situation. But they dont even give jail time as an alternative which proves all they are out for is money.

19

And on top of this, the people who make these ridiculous fees will never have to pay one dime so no sweat off their back.

Just like the king of England didnt have to pay a dime worth of the taxes he was charging the settlers.

20

[quote]clip11 wrote:
Tedro you said insurance companies exist to profit, but state government is not a company. It is not meant to profit itself, but the people. And if its a law thats hurting the people more than helping it should be abolished.

Let me give you a history lesson: What did the american revolution, the french revolution have in common? Taxes! Thats right, the government taking all they could get until people said to hell with this.

We pay sales tax, excessive vehicle registration fees (why should I have to pay $100 for someone to push a few buttons on a keyboard I can do that myself)property taxes, and income taxes.

And let me tell you how the state does people dirty around here. As you know, with the housing crisis, homes are losing value.

The state is charging people the same property taxes as they did when the houses had more value and they refuse to come reassess the property because it would lower taxes and the government wouldnt be able to steal as much money.

And I could go on…[/quote]

If you have a complaint that taxes in general are too high, then I would agree with you. However, unless you want to live in anarchy taxes are necessary. Many discussions can be had on how these taxes can be collected. Some are unfair and counterintuitive.

As a whole, taxes should definitely be lowered from their current state, nationwide. If you go back to my first post I mentioned one positive to the driver responsibility program is that it can be used to lower taxes in other areas. Like income or capital gains. I would definitely agree that these are too high, and many times can be compared to theft.

I think this program is a fair way to tax as it not only provides revenue, but it also makes the roads a safer place.