Treatment of Bush Is a Disgrace

[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:

I can understand the left being excited about their victory - but if things were truly as bad as people wanted to think they were, then the new baby jesus would have won as big as Reagan did.

I think you need to look at that statement…and then realize we are talking about this country’s first black president. He had the odds against him more than anyone and STILL won to that degree.

[/quote]

Is it a skin color thing or a politics thing? The democrat candidate has received 90+% of the black vote from Clinton forward. What is it about the conservative message that does not resonate with black voters? Consider this:

In California “Exit poll data showed seven in 10 black voters and more than half of Latino voters backed the ballot initiative, while whites and Asians were split.” (from AP)for the ban on same sex marriage.

In this case black voters agreed with the conservative position 70% of the time yet the same voters vote over 95% for the liberal candidate.

There is some disconnect here that I do not understand, and I do not think the Republican party understands this nor has any strategy for overcoming this.

[quote]Razorslim wrote:

Is it a skin color thing or a politics thing?
[/quote]

It’s a United States “thing” and while some of you refuse to see it, race was still a large issue in this country, so much so that people have voted for a completely different approach in how this country is run from our current president and voted in its first black president at the same time.

This man winning this election is about more than just politics and exactly how big of a loss does it take for some of you to consider that it is justified and that people didn’t vote as “blindly” as some of wish they had?

You all sound like children who had your space at the sand box taken. This may be one of, if not THE, most historical event in US presidential history and some of you can’t even acknowledge it for what it is.

Get over it. If he is that bad, he’s only got 4 years. Bush fucked over this country enough in 8 years that Conservatives even voted for the Democrat.

LOL.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Professor X wrote:
He had the odds against him more than anyone and STILL won to that degree.

I don’t know about this.

My sense is… for wealthy whites, a vote for Obama relieved them of guilt about their own lives & prosperity; for the ones who lived through the 1960s, a vote for Obama meant living up to the promises of the past; for those who remember the sorry state of race relations, a vote for Obama redeemed the past; for those who are very young, Obama is just “cool” because he’s different. [/quote]

There was certainly a lot of that–but people susceptible to that tend to be Democrats who would have voted for Obama anyway. And for every white guilt liberal there was some racist Democrat in the sticks who would never vote for a black man.

Let’s not start to revise history already: Obama didn’t start his campaign with a lot of money, or even good chances. Before the primaries people thought it was gonna be Clinton/Guiliani or some bizarre shit like that. He had a very hard fought race against Hillary, his campaign has been astonishing. McCain was merely the last man standing in a sloppy primary. He and Hillary Clinton ran shitty campaigns; make no mistake, Obama and his team EARNED this win. It wasn’t given to them from upon high.

[quote]phil_leotardo wrote:

Blacks do vote as a racial voting bloc. The only major racial group that votes 90%+ consistently for the Democratic party in presidential election are black Americans. If this isn’t an indication of the racialist leanings in black America, than I don’t know what is. Except for maybe all of the speeches in which they use “we” and “us” when talking about Barack Obama’s presidency.

From living in a city, I have so much first hand experience in how most blacks tend to be racialists and racists for that matter.

And BTW: if blacks didn’t engage in racial bloc voting, do you still think Obama would be president? How about if 90% of whites voted Republican and engaged in racial bloc voting?
[/quote]

There’s a historical reason blacks vote in blocs. It’s because one party was the party of Jim Crow and slavery, and the other lent blacks a helping hand every once in a while. It’s hilarious to me that blacks voting in a bloc is 1. even a problem or 2. somehow due to “black racialism” rather than centuries of white oppression

Maybe one party consistently speaks to issues that affects black people and the other ignores them? One party reaches out and the other is the haven for unreformed racists. Hrmm shocker, I wonder why blacks don’t vote for Republicans more…

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Razorslim wrote:

Is it a skin color thing or a politics thing?

It’s a United States “thing” and while some of you refuse to see it, race was still a large issue in this country, so much so that people have voted for a completely different approach in how this country is run from our current president and voted in its first black president at the same time.

This man winning this election is about more than just politics and exactly how big of a loss does it take for some of you to consider that it is justified and that people didn’t vote as “blindly” as some of wish they had?

You all sound like children who had your space at the sand box taken. This may be one of, if not THE, most historical event in US presidential history and some of you can’t even acknowledge it for what it is.

Get over it. If he is that bad, he’s only got 4 years. Bush fucked over this country enough in 8 years that Conservatives even voted for the Democrat.

LOL.

[/quote]

No Doubt it is historical, but Obama would have won regardless of his skin color.

Can you explain the disparity in the California vote in my previous post?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:

Barack Obama could not have been elected without tens of millions of WHITE voters’ ballots. In fact, he polled half the total WHITE vote.

What does that say about racism?

That it took until after the year 2000 in this country for it to dissipate enough for something like this to even occur.
[/quote]

Wrong.
We now have the conclusive evidence that America IS NOT AS RACIST as portrayed by race-mongering groups and activists.

[quote]Razorslim wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Razorslim wrote:

Is it a skin color thing or a politics thing?

It’s a United States “thing” and while some of you refuse to see it, race was still a large issue in this country, so much so that people have voted for a completely different approach in how this country is run from our current president and voted in its first black president at the same time.

This man winning this election is about more than just politics and exactly how big of a loss does it take for some of you to consider that it is justified and that people didn’t vote as “blindly” as some of wish they had?

You all sound like children who had your space at the sand box taken. This may be one of, if not THE, most historical event in US presidential history and some of you can’t even acknowledge it for what it is.

Get over it. If he is that bad, he’s only got 4 years. Bush fucked over this country enough in 8 years that Conservatives even voted for the Democrat.

LOL.

No Doubt it is historical, but Obama would have won regardless of his skin color.

Can you explain the disparity in the California vote in my previous post?
[/quote]

I’m not X but here’s my take:
religious blacks tend to be economically liberal and socially conservative. 99 times out of 100 they put economic concerns over social concerns.

Plus I think the Republican party is radioactive to black people. It still has the stigma of being the party of racists (because it is), so even black social conservatives don’t feel entirely comfortable there.

[quote]valiance. wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:

Did I say Obama or did I generalize by encompassing all voting parties? You were the one who stated you understood why people felt like Wright, not me. Sounds like an anti-white statement to me.

Understanding why someone who grew up through the Civil Rights movement and the racism of the 60’s and 70’s has a hostile view towards those in power during that time makes you “anti-White”? Really? And you DON’T think your perspective is narrow?

Wow.

WRT Wright that makes it alright to continue to spew hate? You would think that someone who experienced that would want to stop the cycle of hate, not continue it. Continuing this cycle is narrow minded, not condeming this cycle is narrow minded.

Oh yeah, because racism died 40 years ago, huh?

Barack Obama could not have been elected without tens of millions of WHITE voters’ ballots. In fact, he polled half the total WHITE vote.

What does that say about racism?

  1. He polled less than half the White vote; 43% of it to be exact. If it wasn’t for minority voters, John McCain would be president. Local Exit Polls - Election Center 2008 - Elections & Politics from CNN.com

  2. I’d argue that there’s a difference between voting for a black president because he’s black and a white president because he’s white (even though both are discrimination based on race).

Given the historical oppression of black people in this country, it is not unreasonable for anyone to want to see a black person in the highest office of the land simply to show that it can be done. To give the lie to hundreds of years of propaganda asserting black inferiority and to show that America has moved beyond its racist past.

To assert that because a black man is president all our racial ills are healed is idiotic, but it’s certainly a sign of progress; especially when it was under 50 years ago that blacks and whites even going to school together was unthinkable. It’s an astonishingly powerful symbol both at home and abroad, and I think that should be fully acknowledged.

I hope it might lead to a good deal of integration of the black community into greater American society. The amount of cynicism and distrust of the American government (and the system, the man, and white authority etc.) in the black community would shock most white people (see Jeremiah Wright for an extreme version). But in their defense, segregation wasn’t that long ago; hell, slavery wasn’t that long ago! A woman whose parents were slaves voted in this election! Obama winning this election is a huge sign of how far we’ve come as a country. Black people often have the sense that the system is rigged against them (since it was for so long–rather than seeing that its rigged for them in some places as it is now). This win doesn’t mean the system isn’t rigged–it still plainly is in places–but its certainly opened the eyes of a lot of black folk I think. (This election season also brought out a lot of ugly racism and ignorance some people thought was dead but that’s another story)

Of course, if race is your sole reason for voting for someone I think you’re being an idiot. Noone but the most virulent racist would vote for someone solely based on his or her race. Blacks don’t come out in droves for Alan Keyes for example. Policies and politics matter, and Obama’s dominance of the black vote isn’t terribly out of line with typical Democratic numbers (and his dominance of Hillary Clinton in that regard is explained by the preceding paragraphs).

Finally, to vote for a white man because of his whiteness is to simply echo the centuries of oppression of black people in this country. It’s not so much a vote for a white man (after all we’ve had 43 white presidents in a row) as it is a vote against a black man (likely because of feelings of racial animus).

  1. I’d be very much surprised if those clamoring about disrespect of GWB would be willing to give even the tiniest bit of respect to the president elect. BHO. I don’t know people here so I’m not going to point fingers or call names, but if Democrats should be respectful of Republican presidents, so should Republicans be respectful of Democratic presidents. We can revisit this thread idea in 4 (or 8) years and see how everyone has done

**By the way I COMPLETELY disagree with the premise that the president–any president–is entitled to our respect or admiration merely because of his position. He’s entitled to our obedience–or rather the obedience of those in the armed forces when he is acting in his role as C-in-C, but I should be allowed to hate the president’s guts and a call him a dirty coward if I want and noone can say different. It would be NICE if we could respect the president, but respect is earned and not every president will earn every citizen’s respect. There are people who disrespect GWB or BHO on principle, and they’re certainly entitled to that foolishness.[/quote]

In other words, you do not know what the hell you are talking about. Your first post was an epic fail and bored people so desperately; it made people feel like maybe you shouldn’t hang around.

[quote]VALERIUS wrote:

In other words, you do not know what the hell you are talking about. Your first post was an epic fail and bored people so desperately; it made people feel like maybe you shouldn’t hang around.[/quote]

It was a pretty massive wall of text, but I don’t see anyone else whining about it.
Oh that’s a great avatar by the way. Is that from the current run of Superman?

[quote]VALERIUS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:

Barack Obama could not have been elected without tens of millions of WHITE voters’ ballots. In fact, he polled half the total WHITE vote.

What does that say about racism?

That it took until after the year 2000 in this country for it to dissipate enough for something like this to even occur.

Wrong.
We now have the conclusive evidence that America IS NOT AS RACIST as portrayed by race-mongering groups and activists.
[/quote]

racism is still around. exit polls show ~10% of people in PA and OH voted against Obama because he was Black (in the Dem. primaries). The rampant ignorance and racism on display throughout this campaign has been truly astonishing. You’re right, we have made progress, more than many black people thought was possible, but it doesn’t mean all of a sudden our problems are solved. Conservatives accuse Obama supporters of treating him like a messiah when you’re the ones who assume that now that he’s elected racism has magically disappeared. Who are the ones with unrealistic expectations?

[quote]valiance. wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:

In other words, you do not know what the hell you are talking about. Your first post was an epic fail and bored people so desperately; it made people feel like maybe you shouldn’t hang around.

It was a pretty massive wall of text, but I don’t see anyone else whining about it.
Oh that’s a great avatar by the way. Is that from the current run of Superman?

VALERIUS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:

Barack Obama could not have been elected without tens of millions of WHITE voters’ ballots. In fact, he polled half the total WHITE vote.

What does that say about racism?

That it took until after the year 2000 in this country for it to dissipate enough for something like this to even occur.

Wrong.
We now have the conclusive evidence that America IS NOT AS RACIST as portrayed by race-mongering groups and activists.

racism is still around. exit polls show ~10% of people in PA and OH voted against Obama because he was Black (in the Dem. primaries). The rampant ignorance and racism on display throughout this campaign has been truly astonishing. You’re right, we have made progress, more than many black people thought was possible, but it doesn’t mean all of a sudden our problems are solved. Conservatives accuse Obama supporters of treating him like a messiah when you’re the ones who assume that now that he’s elected racism has magically disappeared. Who are the ones with unrealistic expectations?[/quote]

Great post, but the fact that you had to explain it is enough to show that some of these people simply refuse to acknowledge any other point of view but their own.

Anyone who thinks racism on a mass scale against blacks died when Obama won this election is not living in the same reality as the rest of us.

We’ve come a long way. The tears on grandfather’s face show me that and no one is denying that. But it isn’t like we now scream, “mission accomplished”. This mass reaction shows this to not be the case.

[quote]VALERIUS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:

Barack Obama could not have been elected without tens of millions of WHITE voters’ ballots. In fact, he polled half the total WHITE vote.

What does that say about racism?

That it took until after the year 2000 in this country for it to dissipate enough for something like this to even occur.

Wrong.
We now have the conclusive evidence that America IS NOT AS RACIST as portrayed by race-mongering groups and activists.
[/quote]

No, you now have proof that racism has decreased enough that a black man can now hold top office in this country. That is all you have conclusive proof of.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
valiance. wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:

In other words, you do not know what the hell you are talking about. Your first post was an epic fail and bored people so desperately; it made people feel like maybe you shouldn’t hang around.

It was a pretty massive wall of text, but I don’t see anyone else whining about it.
Oh that’s a great avatar by the way. Is that from the current run of Superman?

VALERIUS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:

Barack Obama could not have been elected without tens of millions of WHITE voters’ ballots. In fact, he polled half the total WHITE vote.

What does that say about racism?

That it took until after the year 2000 in this country for it to dissipate enough for something like this to even occur.

Wrong.
We now have the conclusive evidence that America IS NOT AS RACIST as portrayed by race-mongering groups and activists.

racism is still around. exit polls show ~10% of people in PA and OH voted against Obama because he was Black (in the Dem. primaries). The rampant ignorance and racism on display throughout this campaign has been truly astonishing. You’re right, we have made progress, more than many black people thought was possible, but it doesn’t mean all of a sudden our problems are solved. Conservatives accuse Obama supporters of treating him like a messiah when you’re the ones who assume that now that he’s elected racism has magically disappeared. Who are the ones with unrealistic expectations?

Great post, but the fact that you had to explain it is enough to show that some of these people simply refuse to acknowledge any other point of view but their own.

Anyone who thinks racism on a mass scale against blacks died when Obama won this election is not living in the same reality as the rest of us.

We’ve come a long way. The tears on grandfather’s face show me that and no one is denying that. But it isn’t like we now scream, “mission accomplished”. This mass reaction shows this to not be the case.[/quote]

I could’ve sworn racism was OVER once the Cosby show hit the air. Could’ve sworn there was no more homophobia when Will and Grace starting running. What gives?

[quote]

There’s a historical reason blacks vote in blocs. It’s because one party was the party of Jim Crow and slavery, and the other lent blacks a helping hand every once in a while. [/quote]

Actually the Democrats were behind the Jim Crow laws in the South and the Republican Abe Lincoln was the one who ended slavery. Southern Democrats also tried to filibuster the 1965 Voting Act.

[quote]valiance. wrote:
It’s hilarious to me that blacks voting in a bloc is 1. even a problem or 2. somehow due to “black racialism” rather than centuries of white oppression[/quote]

Why don’t we define racialism before we continue with this point? I think of racialism as the belief that you are part of a racial group and that you should act in the best interests to further your (racial) group.

[quote]valiance. wrote:

Maybe one party consistently speaks to issues that affects black people and the other ignores them? One party reaches out and the other is the haven for unreformed racists. Hrmm shocker, I wonder why blacks don’t vote for Republicans more… /quote]

Many Republicans have reached out to black Americans, despite the fact that black Americans bloc vote for Democrats.I mean what were Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell and Condi Rice to name a few? Those were black Americans in powerful positions thanks to Republicans.

[quote]VALERIUS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:

Barack Obama could not have been elected without tens of millions of WHITE voters’ ballots. In fact, he polled half the total WHITE vote.

What does that say about racism?

That it took until after the year 2000 in this country for it to dissipate enough for something like this to even occur.

Wrong.
We now have the conclusive evidence that America IS NOT AS RACIST as portrayed by race-mongering groups and activists.
[/quote]

Wrong we have proof that part of the population is extremely racist, greater than 90%.

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:

Barack Obama could not have been elected without tens of millions of WHITE voters’ ballots. In fact, he polled half the total WHITE vote.

What does that say about racism?

That it took until after the year 2000 in this country for it to dissipate enough for something like this to even occur.

Wrong.
We now have the conclusive evidence that America IS NOT AS RACIST as portrayed by race-mongering groups and activists.

Wrong we have proof that part of the population is extremely racist, greater than 90%.

[/quote]

Care to expand on this proof?

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:

Barack Obama could not have been elected without tens of millions of WHITE voters’ ballots. In fact, he polled half the total WHITE vote.

What does that say about racism?

That it took until after the year 2000 in this country for it to dissipate enough for something like this to even occur.

Wrong.
We now have the conclusive evidence that America IS NOT AS RACIST as portrayed by race-mongering groups and activists.

Wrong we have proof that part of the population is extremely racist, greater than 90%.

[/quote]

Oh, please,if I where black you can bet your ass that I would have voted for Obama.

Just to make my mother happy, because she would also be black and would have seen the 50s and 60s as a black woman.

Some people simply deserved a black president before they died and a lot of black people would have given it to them no matter what.

Call that what you want, but that is not racism.

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:

Barack Obama could not have been elected without tens of millions of WHITE voters’ ballots. In fact, he polled half the total WHITE vote.

What does that say about racism?

That it took until after the year 2000 in this country for it to dissipate enough for something like this to even occur.

Wrong.
We now have the conclusive evidence that America IS NOT AS RACIST as portrayed by race-mongering groups and activists.

Wrong we have proof that part of the population is extremely racist, greater than 90%.

Care to expand on this proof? [/quote]

Orion’s right. Call it short-sighted. But it was not motivated by hatred and racism against whites. Many people are one-issue voters anyway. People have a stance on gun control and it takes precedence above anything else. People have a stance for abortion or against abortion. For some, that will take precedence above all else. Happens all the time.

Ok. So we got the first black President thing done and out of the way. Will the numbers even out dramatically next election? I doubt it.

Besides which, this was hardly all about race. As a demographic, blacks tend to identify with Democrats and usually vote democrat in very high numbers. The real difference this time around is voter turnout. Can you really blame a historically persecuted racial minority for being excited that one of their own has the potential to be president and turning out in record numbers?

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Besides which, this was hardly all about race. As a demographic, blacks tend to identify with Democrats and usually vote democrat in very high numbers. The real difference this time around is voter turnout. Can you really blame a historically persecuted racial minority for being excited that one of their own has the potential to be president and turning out in record numbers?[/quote]

What I’m trying to figure out is why the same posters who criticize certain groups and affiliations for “perpetuating” racism…are doing so themselves by being so fixated on black voting numbers and percentages…accusing this as racism.

Or am I just confused? Somebody help me out.

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Besides which, this was hardly all about race. As a demographic, blacks tend to identify with Democrats and usually vote democrat in very high numbers. The real difference this time around is voter turnout. Can you really blame a historically persecuted racial minority for being excited that one of their own has the potential to be president and turning out in record numbers?

What I’m trying to figure out is why the same posters who criticize certain groups and affiliations for “perpetuating” racism…are doing so themselves by being so fixated on black voting numbers and percentages…accusing this as racism.

Or am I just confused? Somebody help me out.[/quote]

Racism is NOT voting for someone because they belong to a demographic and is motivated by ignorance, hatred, and prejudice. What kind of groups are you talking about? The KKK? White supremisists? Their platform is that blacks are inherently inferior, and second-rate.

That’s not what blacks are saying about white people and not what’s motivating their vote. They are excited by the fact that one of their own had a chance to achieve the highest office in the nation when 50 years ago he would’ve been stuck at the back of the bus, thrown out of restaurants, and relegated to a different drinking fountain.