[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Oh yeah, because racism died 40 years ago, huh?
I think it keeps being redefined precisely so that it can’t die.
[/quote]
You should know, you’ve stretched the definition far enough yourself. “RACIST!!!”
Prof X, how did your appearance here bring new members of “the 20%” out of the woodwork?
[quote]phil_leotardo wrote:
Back on topic of Bush: fuck him. He messed up the country and left his party in such ruins that they had to turn to a limp wristed Republicrat like McCain solely because he was supposedly distanced from Bush. He is the worst president of my life and a wolf in sheep’s clothing.[/quote]
Good call, back on topic. Bush worst president ever? perhaps not. Among the worst ever? Most seem to think so and I’m among this group.
I love coming onto T-Nation and seeing “the 20%” come out with such great stuff. Bush failed because he was bi-partisan? LMAO. “you’re with us or against us!” “Traitor!”
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Good call, back on topic. Bush worst president ever? perhaps not. Among the worst ever? Most seem to think so and I’m among this group.
I love coming onto T-Nation and seeing “the 20%” come out with such great stuff. Bush failed because he was bi-partisan? LMAO. “you’re with us or against us!” “Traitor!” [/quote]
It’s actually not back on topic. The topic was, initially, the selfish blasting of a president who had to deal with some of the toughest times in history, yet was slandered for his every move, and not supported as the CIC of this country.
I can only imagine the reaction if even only the “20%,” as you love to call them, treated Obama the same way. Bush bashers do it under the false guise of some new fangled “patriotism,”
While anyone who questions one thing Obama says is labeled a racist, or diagnosed with “Bush derangement syndrome.” Just listen to yourselves. It’s pathetic, it really is.
Bush… If anyone could think for themselves they would realize he started a war without any evidence for whatever his own purposes were.
If the facts were present he would not have been given the green light.
I think he should be tried for his crime against this country. Our children have died because of evidence that never existed.
Before you bash too much I voted for him and no I do not make these claims lightly. He is the reason many parents will not see their children again. The people sacrificing so much for us should not have been put in the situation.
Again before you say it is our job to create peace in the world, well what about all the other peoples of the world we are not standing up for. A whole race of people are being exterminated in Darfur…
ohh yeah I think the next time McCain sees Bush he is gonna drop kick em.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Oh yeah, because racism died 40 years ago, huh?
I think it keeps being redefined precisely so that it can’t die.
You should know, you’ve stretched the definition far enough yourself. “RACIST!!!” [/quote]
Such as?
[quote]BillO21 wrote:
ohh yeah I think the next time McCain sees Bush he is gonna drop kick em.[/quote]
LOL.
If any conservatives/republicans want a place to put the blame for why they lost this election…they have no further to look than the person they voted for last time.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Did I say Obama or did I generalize by encompassing all voting parties? You were the one who stated you understood why people felt like Wright, not me. Sounds like an anti-white statement to me.
Understanding why someone who grew up through the Civil Rights movement and the racism of the 60’s and 70’s has a hostile view towards those in power during that time makes you “anti-White”? Really? And you DON’T think your perspective is narrow?
Wow.
WRT Wright that makes it alright to continue to spew hate? You would think that someone who experienced that would want to stop the cycle of hate, not continue it. Continuing this cycle is narrow minded, not condeming this cycle is narrow minded.
Oh yeah, because racism died 40 years ago, huh?[/quote]
Barack Obama could not have been elected without tens of millions of WHITE voters’ ballots. In fact, he polled half the total WHITE vote.
What does that say about racism?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What the hell? Who in this country didn’t hear about Rev Wright?
You are now claiming not enough people knew? As if it wasn’t covered on every news station and newspaper? WTF?[/quote]
In illinouse I believe it was, 98% of black men voted for obama and 95% of black wemon voted for obama.
If anyone can even slightly pretend that a ton of people didnt vote for him simply because the color of his skin, they are kidding them selves.
And if anyone trys to pretend that 96.5% of black people voting for him in that state isn blatent racism, then they are also kidding them selves.
Obama won because A: bush made republicans look bad B: he was black, and C: he had allot more money to spend on advertising. Not to mention I have never seen anyone else run for president with a more neutral position than him. If the majority of americans voted for legal child molestation the guy would probably be 100% for it.
This election was a massive failure, the wrong person was picked for all the wrong reasons in my opinion.
At one time the persident was selected on who would do the best job, not in a populatrity contest where the candidates just spent as much money as they could and tryed to appeal as much as they could to as many people as they could. If anyone wants to say bush did this, again, they are kidding them selves, he had views of his own that many didnt agree with and he would have and did keep them even when the majority disagreed.
I sure hope all the poor americans, who dont know how to handle money, work, or support their children without welfare know whats good for their country. Because obama basically says he is going to give them exactly what they want for better or for worse.
It pays to suck in america.
I have never been more ashamed of my country when the elected obama.
Im not going to arue with everyone who disaree’s with me, because there is no point. Its just my opinion on the subject. If you feel the need to cry do it in your pillow and not on here.
[quote]VALERIUS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Did I say Obama or did I generalize by encompassing all voting parties? You were the one who stated you understood why people felt like Wright, not me. Sounds like an anti-white statement to me.
Understanding why someone who grew up through the Civil Rights movement and the racism of the 60’s and 70’s has a hostile view towards those in power during that time makes you “anti-White”? Really? And you DON’T think your perspective is narrow?
Wow.
WRT Wright that makes it alright to continue to spew hate? You would think that someone who experienced that would want to stop the cycle of hate, not continue it. Continuing this cycle is narrow minded, not condeming this cycle is narrow minded.
Oh yeah, because racism died 40 years ago, huh?
Barack Obama could not have been elected without tens of millions of WHITE voters’ ballots. In fact, he polled half the total WHITE vote.
What does that say about racism?[/quote]
I just looked it up on google what percent of black people voted for obama… says 96… surley this cant be right?
So basically half the white people voted for him and almost all the black people voted for him?
I cant even believe the racism in this. I cant wait for someone to tell me that 50% of white people didnt vote for him out of racism. Thats going to be hilaious.
[quote]VALERIUS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Did I say Obama or did I generalize by encompassing all voting parties? You were the one who stated you understood why people felt like Wright, not me. Sounds like an anti-white statement to me.
Understanding why someone who grew up through the Civil Rights movement and the racism of the 60’s and 70’s has a hostile view towards those in power during that time makes you “anti-White”? Really? And you DON’T think your perspective is narrow?
Wow.
WRT Wright that makes it alright to continue to spew hate? You would think that someone who experienced that would want to stop the cycle of hate, not continue it. Continuing this cycle is narrow minded, not condeming this cycle is narrow minded.
Oh yeah, because racism died 40 years ago, huh?
Barack Obama could not have been elected without tens of millions of WHITE voters’ ballots. In fact, he polled half the total WHITE vote.
What does that say about racism?[/quote]
That it took until after the year 2000 in this country for it to dissipate enough for something like this to even occur.
[quote]VALERIUS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Did I say Obama or did I generalize by encompassing all voting parties? You were the one who stated you understood why people felt like Wright, not me. Sounds like an anti-white statement to me.
Understanding why someone who grew up through the Civil Rights movement and the racism of the 60’s and 70’s has a hostile view towards those in power during that time makes you “anti-White”? Really? And you DON’T think your perspective is narrow?
Wow.
WRT Wright that makes it alright to continue to spew hate? You would think that someone who experienced that would want to stop the cycle of hate, not continue it. Continuing this cycle is narrow minded, not condeming this cycle is narrow minded.
Oh yeah, because racism died 40 years ago, huh?
Barack Obama could not have been elected without tens of millions of WHITE voters’ ballots. In fact, he polled half the total WHITE vote.
What does that say about racism?[/quote]
-
He polled less than half the White vote; 43% of it to be exact. If it wasn’t for minority voters, John McCain would be president. Local Exit Polls - Election Center 2008 - Elections & Politics from CNN.com
-
I’d argue that there’s a difference between voting for a black president because he’s black and a white president because he’s white (even though both are discrimination based on race).
Given the historical oppression of black people in this country, it is not unreasonable for anyone to want to see a black person in the highest office of the land simply to show that it can be done. To give the lie to hundreds of years of propaganda asserting black inferiority and to show that America has moved beyond its racist past.
To assert that because a black man is president all our racial ills are healed is idiotic, but it’s certainly a sign of progress; especially when it was under 50 years ago that blacks and whites even going to school together was unthinkable. It’s an astonishingly powerful symbol both at home and abroad, and I think that should be fully acknowledged.
I hope it might lead to a good deal of integration of the black community into greater American society. The amount of cynicism and distrust of the American government (and the system, the man, and white authority etc.) in the black community would shock most white people (see Jeremiah Wright for an extreme version). But in their defense, segregation wasn’t that long ago; hell, slavery wasn’t that long ago! A woman whose parents were slaves voted in this election! Obama winning this election is a huge sign of how far we’ve come as a country. Black people often have the sense that the system is rigged against them (since it was for so long–rather than seeing that its rigged for them in some places as it is now). This win doesn’t mean the system isn’t rigged–it still plainly is in places–but its certainly opened the eyes of a lot of black folk I think. (This election season also brought out a lot of ugly racism and ignorance some people thought was dead but that’s another story)
Of course, if race is your sole reason for voting for someone I think you’re being an idiot. Noone but the most virulent racist would vote for someone solely based on his or her race. Blacks don’t come out in droves for Alan Keyes for example. Policies and politics matter, and Obama’s dominance of the black vote isn’t terribly out of line with typical Democratic numbers (and his dominance of Hillary Clinton in that regard is explained by the preceding paragraphs).
Finally, to vote for a white man because of his whiteness is to simply echo the centuries of oppression of black people in this country. It’s not so much a vote for a white man (after all we’ve had 43 white presidents in a row) as it is a vote against a black man (likely because of feelings of racial animus).
- I’d be very much surprised if those clamoring about disrespect of GWB would be willing to give even the tiniest bit of respect to the president elect. BHO. I don’t know people here so I’m not going to point fingers or call names, but if Democrats should be respectful of Republican presidents, so should Republicans be respectful of Democratic presidents. We can revisit this thread idea in 4 (or 8) years and see how everyone has done
**By the way I COMPLETELY disagree with the premise that the president–any president–is entitled to our respect or admiration merely because of his position. He’s entitled to our obedience–or rather the obedience of those in the armed forces when he is acting in his role as C-in-C, but I should be allowed to hate the president’s guts and a call him a dirty coward if I want and noone can say different. It would be NICE if we could respect the president, but respect is earned and not every president will earn every citizen’s respect. There are people who disrespect GWB or BHO on principle, and they’re certainly entitled to that foolishness.
[quote]valiance. wrote:
VALERIUS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Did I say Obama or did I generalize by encompassing all voting parties? You were the one who stated you understood why people felt like Wright, not me. Sounds like an anti-white statement to me.
Understanding why someone who grew up through the Civil Rights movement and the racism of the 60’s and 70’s has a hostile view towards those in power during that time makes you “anti-White”? Really? And you DON’T think your perspective is narrow?
Wow.
WRT Wright that makes it alright to continue to spew hate? You would think that someone who experienced that would want to stop the cycle of hate, not continue it. Continuing this cycle is narrow minded, not condeming this cycle is narrow minded.
Oh yeah, because racism died 40 years ago, huh?
Barack Obama could not have been elected without tens of millions of WHITE voters’ ballots. In fact, he polled half the total WHITE vote.
What does that say about racism?
-
He polled less than half the White vote; 43% of it to be exact. If it wasn’t for minority voters, John McCain would be president. Local Exit Polls - Election Center 2008 - Elections & Politics from CNN.com
-
I’d argue that there’s a difference between voting for a black president because he’s black and a white president because he’s white (even though both are discrimination based on race).
Given the historical oppression of black people in this country, it is not unreasonable for anyone to want to see a black person in the highest office of the land simply to show that it can be done. To give the lie to hundreds of years of propaganda asserting black inferiority and to show that America has moved beyond its racist past.
To assert that because a black man is president all our racial ills are healed is idiotic, but it’s certainly a sign of progress; especially when it was under 50 years ago that blacks and whites even going to school together was unthinkable. It’s an astonishingly powerful symbol both at home and abroad, and I think that should be fully acknowledged.
I hope it might lead to a good deal of integration of the black community into greater American society. The amount of cynicism and distrust of the American government (and the system, the man, and white authority etc.) in the black community would shock most white people (see Jeremiah Wright for an extreme version). But in their defense, segregation wasn’t that long ago; hell, slavery wasn’t that long ago! A woman whose parents were slaves voted in this election! Obama winning this election is a huge sign of how far we’ve come as a country. Black people often have the sense that the system is rigged against them (since it was for so long–rather than seeing that its rigged for them in some places as it is now). This win doesn’t mean the system isn’t rigged–it still plainly is in places–but its certainly opened the eyes of a lot of black folk I think. (This election season also brought out a lot of ugly racism and ignorance some people thought was dead but that’s another story)
Of course, if race is your sole reason for voting for someone I think you’re being an idiot. Noone but the most virulent racist would vote for someone solely based on his or her race. Blacks don’t come out in droves for Alan Keyes for example. Policies and politics matter, and Obama’s dominance of the black vote isn’t terribly out of line with typical Democratic numbers (and his dominance of Hillary Clinton in that regard is explained by the preceding paragraphs).
[/quote]
Blacks do vote as a racial voting bloc. The only major racial group that votes 90%+ consistently for the Democratic party in presidential election are black Americans. If this isn’t an indication of the racialist leanings in black America, than I don’t know what is. Except for maybe all of the speeches in which they use “we” and “us” when talking about Barack Obama’s presidency.
From living in a city, I have so much first hand experience in how most blacks tend to be racialists and racists for that matter.
And BTW: if blacks didn’t engage in racial bloc voting, do you still think Obama would be president? How about if 90% of whites voted Republican and engaged in racial bloc voting?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
BillO21 wrote:
ohh yeah I think the next time McCain sees Bush he is gonna drop kick em.
LOL.
If any conservatives/republicans want a place to put the blame for why they lost this election…they have no further to look than the person they voted for last time.[/quote]
Stop associating conservatism with the Republican party. The Republicans have proved over and again since 2005 that they are not anything remotely similar to a Republican.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
BillO21 wrote:
ohh yeah I think the next time McCain sees Bush he is gonna drop kick em.
LOL.
If any conservatives/republicans want a place to put the blame for why they lost this election…they have no further to look than the person they voted for last time.
Stop associating conservatism with the Republican party. The Republicans have proved over and again since 2005 that they are not anything remotely similar to a Republican.
[/quote]
Why is it when I pointed that out four years ago as a reason to NOT elect the same guy into office that it was laughed at and ignored?
Guess what, if Kerry had won that last election, Republicans would probably be in the White House right now.
You let your poster boy run free with no reigns attached and managed to piss off most of America. LOL.
I bet Bush would claim he is a conservative.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why is it when I pointed that out four years ago as a reason to NOT elect the same guy into office that it was laughed at and ignored?
Guess what, if Kerry had won that last election, Republicans would probably be in the White House right now.
You let your poster boy run free with no reigns attached and managed to piss off most of America. LOL.
I bet Bush would claim he is a conservative.[/quote]
It wasn’t really the case in 2004. Republicans were still fairly conservative. It wasn’t until the next year that Republicans hung their constituency out to dry - which led to the Left taking over in 2006.
I don’t doubt that you are correct in your assumption about Kerry winning. but hindsight is 20/20.
Bush is not my poster boy. I wasn’t a member here in 2000, but I can assure you that I was no fan of Bush back then. I thought he was far too moderate to be considered a true conservative.
People grew tired of Bush. He did nothing but sign bills put in front of him. I only wished he had done something that remotely resembled running free with no reigns just to prove to some of us that his nuts were still attached. Congress passed every military spending bill he sent them.
McCain suffered the same fate that Algore did in 2000. Unless shit is really going good - think Reagan in 1988 - the party’s successor has an uphill battle.
I can understand the left being excited about their victory - but if things were truly as bad as people wanted to think they were, then the new baby jesus would have won as big as Reagan did.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
I can understand the left being excited about their victory - but if things were truly as bad as people wanted to think they were, then the new baby jesus would have won as big as Reagan did.
[/quote]
I think you need to look at that statement…and then realize we are talking about this country’s first black president. He had the odds against him more than anyone and STILL won to that degree.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I can understand the left being excited about their victory - but if things were truly as bad as people wanted to think they were, then the new baby jesus would have won as big as Reagan did.
I think you need to look at that statement…and then realize we are talking about this country’s first black president. He had the odds against him more than anyone and STILL won to that degree.
[/quote]
I still stand by what I said. Take a look at the congressional races - there was not a big swing. Republicans lost a few seats, but nothing out of the ordinary, as the party winning the election usually picks up congressional seats.
Were this a true change - the losses for the republicans would have been much greater.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
He had the odds against him more than anyone and STILL won to that degree.
[/quote]
I don’t know about this.
My sense is… for wealthy whites, a vote for Obama relieved them of guilt about their own lives & prosperity; for the ones who lived through the 1960s, a vote for Obama meant living up to the promises of the past; for those who remember the sorry state of race relations, a vote for Obama redeemed the past; for those who are very young, Obama is just “cool” because he’s different.