From the 2008 Literature Review @EyeDentist - The NCAA rules were based on this fantastic lack of scientific research.
To date, no study has examined the effects of cross-sex hormones on any objective measures of athletic performance (maximal aerobic capacity, time trials). Additionally, no trial has been conducted in transitioned athletes as compared with physically born men and women athletes. As such, there is no concrete evidence to support or refute the position that transitioned athletes compete at an advantage or disadvantage as compared with physically born men and women athletes.
This is the European Endocrinology link @EyeDentist put up in the Kroc thread, and reposted here.
_Androgen deprivation of M ā F decreased muscle mass, increasing the overlap with untreated F ā M, but mean muscle mass remained significantly higher in M ā F than in F ā M. Androgen administration to F ā M increased muscle mass without inducing an advantage over nontreated M ā F. The conclusion is that androgen deprivation in M ā F increases the overlap in muscle mass with women but does not reverse it, statistically. The question of whether reassigned M ā F can fairly compete with women depends on what degree of arbitrariness one wishes to accept, keeping in mind, for instance, that similar blood testosterone levels in men have profoundly different biologic effects on muscle properties,rendering competition in sports intrinsically a matter of how nature endows individuals for this competition. _
The pivotal question is this: can reassigned transsexuals compete fairly with others of their new sex? Our data are limited and do not provide insight into all pertinent aspects. In competitive sports, in all likelihood, small differences may be critical for winning or losing. Our analysis is not refined enough to detect these small differences, allowing only an approximation.
The only thing I saw was a sportscaster saying Hubbard had tested within the female range for T for the past 12 months. Then he went on to say that anyone who disagreed with her competing as a female is prejudiced or jealous. That should be pretty effective in striking fear in any female athlete who feels like this isnāt fair. If you disagree with us, weāll ruin you.
Excellent post, Deb. I believe Hubbard scooped the national total for NZ by 20 kg.
@ GERIATRIC at age 39 for WLing, that hurts. I started taking lessons last summer, and just LOVE it.
Ok. So the anecdotes donāt hold water, but there is not enough science to know- so lets make policy first and figure it out later.
With so much unknown, Iām not the only one out over his skis. The difference is that Iām saying lets investigate it then change policy, where as you seem to be on the side of write policy then figure it out.
I agree. I thought your intention was to show us the NCAA data. If so, Itās not very persuasive.
Thatās what I thought when I heard the sportscaster. Iād be very wary of saying anything publicly that would bring the wrath of the TG activists and the illiberal left down on me. They do try to ruin people. Public shaming. Demands for apologies. It could ruin someoneās reputation to go against them. These are the tactics. Silence dissent.
To the extent the science is as quoted by @anon71262119, the policies of the NCAA and the IOC are not unreasonable.
People who have studied the issue in far greater depth than you or I decided to change the policy.
Apparently, the data were persuasive enough for the NCAA.
Um, you ARE saying things publicly. So far as being āruined,ā āpublicly shamed,ā or ādemanded to apologizeā goes, you seem to be faring quite well.
Do you imagine that people are not afraid to speak out against this kind of thing? To quote the sportscaster in this case, that being branded as āprejudicedā toward the LGBT community might not have some serious repercussions for your future? When an employer googles your name, a controversy where you were labeled as prejudiced pops up? The fear of that is fairly powerful for me. I donāt think thatās unrealistic. Itās not the TG issue, but when I look at what happened to Erika and Nicholas Christakis at Yale, or the recent Charles Murray riot at Middlebury, Iād be very afraid to cross these people.
On the topic of the illiberal left punishing people who disagree, or try to present an opposing side.
Note, Professor Stranger was just trying to facilitate a discussion, she was in fact going to present the opposing side. Yes, Iād be afraid to cross these people.
I know its coming at you from all sides rapidly, but even you admitted that the study which you originally provided in another thread was not very persuasive.
And come on for a moment, realistically- Did you take a look at Kroc?
Seriously, his stated goal on this site was to cut down and become more feminine. Not much luck. And given that this whole movement is really just in its infancy, not much evidence on either side.
So 2 competitive weight lifters that have transitioned and could easily smoke virtually every woman on the planet- may not be a huge body of scientific evidence, but they donāt really seem to be having much luck of becoming more āfemaleā.
Thatās not the threat she is talking about. She is referring to real life harrasment, doxxing, pressuring employers to fire people kind of harassment. Not to mention, this site is hardly a hotbed of tumblr activist activity if they did come here.
Are you really this obtuse or are you just playing devils advocate for fun?
No doubt, she is still enormous. But in that regard, youāre forgetting about an important aspect of the TN interview conducted by @Chris_Colucci. In that interview, Kroc admitted to feeling torn regarding whether she wanted to lose mass vs keep it:
āObviously my body has to change a lot. Iāve got a lot of weight and a lot of muscle to lose. I was down 70 pounds and then I had what I call one of my strength relapses. Itās hard for me because Iām walking away from a lot of stuff I worked really hard for, and being āMatt Krocā was a big part of who I am.ā
The point being, it is unclear to me what Krocās priorities are, and thus what she is doing vis a vis hormonal manipulation.
I think itās important to separate the issue of TG participation from the issue of cheating/doping. Until/unless someone shows evidence to the contrary, I am operating under the assumption that a TG athlete is no more (and no less) likely to cheat/dope than is a cis-gendered athlete. If Kroc is doing something hormone-wise to enhance her strength/mass (and is competing in strength-related athletics), she is doping, and should be treated as such by the relevant governing body. But the same would be true of a cis-gendered female.
