neither im just trying to do what is best
well all trained for strength first right ? you could just squat and deadlift and do nothing else and do what is best , first… and lay the strength foundation and cns foundation for physique training afterwards…
It wasn’t what I did the first time I squatted 400lbs. Or the first time I squatted 500lbs, as a 181lb lifter.
well all trained for strength first right ?
Nope.
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Why do you think there is weight class in powerlifting and olympic lifting dude? Because being bigger allow you to be stronger. Not the other way around.
Same for all combat sport…
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how strong were you before as a adolscent? how did you get there? what do you mean nope ? everybody says the best bodybuilders were powerlifters first powerlifting complemetns muscle building and bodybuilding and volume training thats kinda the whole point… if you arent squatting and deadlifting as a natty you arent doing shit for a good physique imo …look at ronnie coleman or arnold the faces of bodybuilding… they all squatted and deadlifted 600+ and 700+ and then ronnie did 800 + and 800+ so why cant we acknowledge that ?
yeah weight class and relative strength and absolute strength…but can we not agree squats and deadlifts are king first and dieting for powerlifting first is good too?
No we can’t agree.
Especially not in your case.
You keep talking about physique in your comments but your original question ask how to unstuck your squat and deadlift. Everybody says to gain weight. Then you answer them and talk about bodybuilding. It kinda make no sense.
I understand that TRAINING to have a 700 lbs deadlift would help you achieve a great physique. But you won’t reach the 700 lbs deadlift if you are not ready to eat to get there. And unless you are genetically gifted, you will have to do other exercises to get your deadlift there.
EDIT: So, do you want to achieve your genetic limit as a powerlifter as you stated in your original question or are you caring about bodybuilding as expressed in most of your comments?
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what do you mean nope ?
I mean I did not train strength first.
You keep using the phrase powerlifter and bodybuilding, or strength and physique. When talking about adding size to the frame, it’s not about bodybuilding or physique: it’s about WEIGHT.
The first time I squatted 400lbs, I ate my way up from 190lbs at 5’9 to 217lbs.
imo
You must forgive me, but I do not give your opinion much value.
look at ronnie coleman or arnold
Hey, I can throw some names around too. Look up Bruce Randall, Hugh Cassidy, Matt Dimel, J.M. Blakely, Paul Anderson, Bill West, Glenn Ross, J.C. Hise, Doug Hepburn, and Donnie Thompson regarding the subject of gaining weight to get stronger.
EDIT: It’s also interesting to me that you talked about wanting to achieve your natural potential and then referenced two guys who have gone on record that they used performance enhancing drugs. On the list of dudes I provided, Bruce Randall, Bill Wes, J.C. Hise, Paul Anderson and Doug Hepburn existed either in an era without the use of exogenous testosterone OR when it was just in it’s infancy, if you’re looking for examples that actually correlate with your goal. And they’re just names I came up with off the top of my head for folks that aggressively chased weight gain to get stronger. I can come up with more, if you’re really interested in history.
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I approached my bodybuilding quest similar as you state, just remove the programming. Once I met a guy who powerlifted, I did that a couple years competitively. Then I focused on bodybuilding thereafter. Why don’t you include the Bench Press in your discussion.
I will give you two rules that you should add to your bodybuilding quest. I believe that they are critical.
Rule 1: Building muscle happens from weight training when these three phases are optimized.
- Stimulus: That is the resistance training
- Recovery: Rest
- Adaptation: Added muscle cell volume and/or strength
Unless you are a genetic freak these three phases don’t overlap. That is, you don’t start “recovery” until the “stimulus” is finished. And you don’t start “adaptation” until “recovery” is finished. Once you restart “stimulus” the “adaptation” stops.
Rule 2: Never get so fat that you cannot see muscle separation in most body parts. That is, don’t aim for a specific body weight to the point that you acquire more fat than would look good on the beach.
Sufficient protein goes without saying.
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You posted a video of a guy wearing a shirt, of a gym that is known to make people really freaking strong. You might want to look into that.
Im kinda confused… in this thread he post a link to one guy that Powerlifts and alĺ the rest being Ifbb pros. AS you pointed out no mention about Westside or any world champion powerlifters or Strongman.
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Can I add a few names to your list ?
I mean ive already marked this off as a Troll thread and honestly have no stake in this. Im just here to watch and see where it goes.
I do have a question since your are a history buff of the sort. Regarding the op mentioning Arnold above.
Outside of a stone lift event Arnold did at a German pub i believe . I dont recall him ever mentioning much in the way of competing or official numbers in any powerlifting lifts meybe some olympic lifting but i dont recall . Im noticing allot guys are starting to overstate his actual strength level. I mean in all my years i have never heard about Arnold as being recognized as being "superstrong "relatively speaking.
I mean if your going to use Arnold as a example as stated above. Someone knowledgeable would have used Franco from the era.
Im not actually confused what the Op is trying to state? That he wants to maximize his strength to maximize his size gains down the road?
What the fuck? Thats nothing more than building a strength base. Which most of the guys on here have talked about for years especially for natty guys.
Either this guy is just Trolling or he absolutely has no idea and has no clue about his audience and trying to preach a message that has been pretty well established for years on here.
It is almost feels like a You Tube comment section.
Just my 2cents
On another Note… was this supposed to be in the training log section? The MOD might want to relocate it.
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i wanaa hit powerlfiting goals to my natural limit think 450+ squat or 550 + deadlifts
ok so should any guy just chasing squat and deadlift numbers have to eat more and gain weight to increase their squat and deadlift ? becuase relative and absolute strength standards?
yeah i think it is coincidental …west side barbell is an elite powerlifting gym/ group who knows if that guy is natty becuae how many nattys are squatting 700 + and not super fat and not super on drugs and not squatting heavy already in their adolsecne?
You forgot Bench troll boy.
im not sure where if this was the right thread area but no im not trolling i take my powerlifting rather seriously , i wasnt born strong i was born like most guys weak before i started lifting im just wondering who was the same and how to icnrease their numbers naturally… for the m and me because we all respond really different to training either really well or really alright or really bad but im just trying to find a the best program for me to follow
the bench press standards are important but not as important a squat and deadlift standards first
Any underweight guy? It’s a great place to start.
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how much should you weigh though to hit your powerlifitng potential? you need to eat for that too right