Training Period for Explosiveness/Power

Training
21

So I’ve done my sessions with 155, 5x2 and 5x3, played around with assistance work a bit, been also hitting some pressing every other workout by doing 3-5 sets of bench press for 3-5 reps at 60% of 1RM, super set with the reactive push ups I talked about before, shoulders and elbows been feeling decent enough so I think I might keep these in about once a week. The weight on cleans is starting to feel a bit heavy, I can no longer ramp up to 20lbs heavier weight than the working weight (actually missed my second rep when attempted 177, something I’ve been able to do in the past so probably combination of poor sleep and doing a bit of road work the day before, legs take their time to adjust), so I think I’m going to play around with the prorgession a bit and see where that takes me. I’m also going to start training MT on a regular schedule now so volume is going to go up a bunch, so expecting similiar gains doesn’t make much sense.

So, what I’ve been thinking about doing is something like this. Say the weight I finished this weeks sessions (4-5x2/3) with is 100%, so the loading of hang cleans for next 6 sessions would look like this:
1st: Ramp to 2RM (approx 110%), 5x2@90%
2nd: Ramp to 3RM, 5x3@90%
3rd: Ramp to same 2RM, 5x2 @100%
4th: Ramp to same 3RM, 5x3@100%
5th: Ramp to 110%, 5x2@110%
6th: Ramp to 110%, 5x3@110%
And repeat now starting from 100 and finishing with 120 and so on. Finishing cycle like this would take somewhere between 2 and 3 weeks, depending on what life throws at me. All of the sets would obviously be super set with jump squats or plyometrics.
As for assistance work:
My Ph.D. in bro-sience leads me to believe I need to start hammering my back and especially my ass and glutes in the gym. What lead me to this conclusion is the fact that after every session where I hit something like good mornings or 1 leg RDLs for about 4 work sets my MT work gets fuck ton harder cause I can’t slip punches as quickly (which basically takes the whole thing out of equation since not doing it fast enough usually means you just get hit in a worse position) and I feel it affects everything from movement to punching power. Therefore improving said musclegroups should mean these things should become easier, which would only make perfect sense since they are pretty vital muscles when your body is looking to generate force from ground in to your opponents face. So I’m planning on rotating 1 leg RDLs, done for sets of 6/side, glute ham raises (which I haven’t done in ages so no idea how many reps I can get here but basically just planning on hitting enough to leave few reps in the tank) and good mornings done with a pretty light weight just focusing on staying tight as fuck and keeping constant tension on the working muscles during the whole set (not going all the way upright also saves my shoulders a whole lot of grief).
Second element of assistance would be focused on the rotational/antirotational stuff, namely pallof press, 1 arm dumbbell BP and the medicine ball throw, reps somewhere around 10/side, keeping weight light enough to keep form perfect.
Third part would focus on hitting the back muscles, so that would mean weighted chin ups and weighted pull ups, reps and weight depending on how my elbows are feeling (but keeping the reps over 5), and 1 arm Db row, reps around 15.

If there is time to spare, a fuck ton of ab work is always good way to pass some time while sweating in pain. Actually hit the first sprint session this morning btw, roads aren’t too slippery anymore so was able to do it outdoors, felt awesome and didn’t feel like it slowed me down in the PM 2hr session of MT one bit. Lets see what my legs think of this tomorrow when I hit the gym. Thats enough writing for one day, now its time to enjoy some painful foam rolling :slight_smile:

22

I think you’re on the right track mate, any time your vertical is going up you are getting more explosive. And it’s even better if you’re gaining weight AND getting more explosive.

You’re also right about your back, glutes, and hamstrings. How you eventually find it best to work them in will take some experimentation but it’s the right direction and those are good athletic movements to be doing. I would say if you’re already pulling 20 reps on the bodyweight chin ups you should focus mostly on rowing for balance’s sake but otherwise good thinking.

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Good to hear from you mate, always a pleasure! What would you consider good ratio of horizontal and vertical pulling, I can do 15+ reps with 70lbs one arm Db row as well, what kind of ratio should I shoot for between the two (say weighted chins and Db row for example)?

Also meant to ask you about work out nutrition, what kind of nutrition would you suggest during/before training with weights and how would that differentiate from MT? I remember you mentioned something about this in donny’s log, just can’t seem to find it right now. What I currently have is plenty of whey and maltodextrin, creatine and very little BCAA, which is a shame cause can’t really fit more in the budget right now but I’ve always found they’ve made a noticable difference in recovery. Creatine is something I’ll be introducing to my supplement stack for the first time, obviously its one of those things that need to be cut out before fight to get rid of the extra weight but decided to give it a go since its really cheap anyways so why not. Since it probably makes a difference, I like eating a nice big meal with somewhere around 100g carbs about 2,5hrs before MT, don’t really eat much before morning workouts cause I basically jump out of the bed, get dressed and head to gym to get my workout done in time so not much time to wait for food to digest. Post workout I like hitting similiar numbers with a little more protein and fat, food sources are clean, so mostly lean meats, rice, oats, greek yogurt, nuts and ton of veggies.

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[quote]Fistiecuffs wrote:
Good to hear from you mate, always a pleasure! What would you consider good ratio of horizontal and vertical pulling, I can do 15+ reps with 70lbs one arm Db row as well, what kind of ratio should I shoot for between the two (say weighted chins and Db row for example)?

Also meant to ask you about work out nutrition, what kind of nutrition would you suggest during/before training with weights and how would that differentiate from MT? I remember you mentioned something about this in donny’s log, just can’t seem to find it right now. What I currently have is plenty of whey and maltodextrin, creatine and very little BCAA, which is a shame cause can’t really fit more in the budget right now but I’ve always found they’ve made a noticable difference in recovery. Creatine is something I’ll be introducing to my supplement stack for the first time, obviously its one of those things that need to be cut out before fight to get rid of the extra weight but decided to give it a go since its really cheap anyways so why not. Since it probably makes a difference, I like eating a nice big meal with somewhere around 100g carbs about 2,5hrs before MT, don’t really eat much before morning workouts cause I basically jump out of the bed, get dressed and head to gym to get my workout done in time so not much time to wait for food to digest. Post workout I like hitting similiar numbers with a little more protein and fat, food sources are clean, so mostly lean meats, rice, oats, greek yogurt, nuts and ton of veggies.[/quote]

I don’t think there is an actual ratio that you should aim for as optimal between vertical and horizontal pulling–mostly I believe that you need to simply make sure your rhomboids, mid back, and rear delts get plenty of stimulation to counteract the humeral internal rotation that all the chin-ups, punching, and bench pressing are going to induce (the lat is an internal rotator and tight lats are a big contributor to shoulder pain/dysfunction on top of everything else people do).

I would focus your horizontal pulling on getting stronger at bigger poundages, not doing 70 lb rows. It’s a good baseline though for certain. But you weigh 160 is (can’t remember!) and do 20 reps with bodyweight on chin-ups. That’s (~ 3200 lbs volume per set) a lot different than 15 reps with 70 lbs (~1000 lbs of volume per set), you see what I’m saying? Good strict form is a must though, not encouraging heaving weights around sloppily on the rows just to get to a bigger poundage on them. You actually have to feel them in the right areas haha. I would also SERIOUSLY work on thoracic spinal mobility, as that will help alleviate shoulder nagging in a lot of ways. Again, Kelly Starrett is prime here.

Basically neutral grip (rows) and external rotation (power snatch, although not necessary if you are uncomfortable with it, I know you do cleans primarily) are your friends for shoulder health. General rule only, your mileage may vary.

try to get back on the nutrition later, gotta jet for now

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Okay, I see your point now, thank you! Definitely need to start working on thoracic spinal mobility, fixing these internally rotated shoulders should be a big priority right now, even if it doesn’t help me as an athlete right now (which it probably will), I know I’ll thank myself later. Man, I fucking love power snatches, they feel like one of the most bad ass excercise ever, its only the portion of the lift where I’m somehow suposted to get the bar from overhead position down to hang again that I can’t seem to get right without killing my shoulders.

Doing singles from blocks and dropping the bar feels absolutely awesome for both developing explosiveness and shoulder health, but that means I’d need more equipment, namely bumper plates and blocks, which should soon be doable about twice a week though.

Thanks for dropping by and looking forward to hearing about nutrition!

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[quote]Fistiecuffs wrote:
Okay, I see your point now, thank you! Definitely need to start working on thoracic spinal mobility, fixing these internally rotated shoulders should be a big priority right now, even if it doesn’t help me as an athlete right now (which it probably will), I know I’ll thank myself later. Man, I fucking love power snatches, they feel like one of the most bad ass excercise ever, its only the portion of the lift where I’m somehow suposted to get the bar from overhead position down to hang again that I can’t seem to get right without killing my shoulders.

Doing singles from blocks and dropping the bar feels absolutely awesome for both developing explosiveness and shoulder health, but that means I’d need more equipment, namely bumper plates and blocks, which should soon be doable about twice a week though.

Thanks for dropping by and looking forward to hearing about nutrition![/quote]

Bringing the bar down from overhead requires a tight back but not an eccentric “press”. You should cushion the momentum with your legs not your shoulders. I let the bar drop completely while maintaining a tightly squeeze back and glutes, and use my legs as shock absorbers. Trying to slow the momentum of the bar down with your shoulders is a sure-fire way to cause them pain. Check out videos of Klokov or other high level weightlifters doing hang snatches for repetitions.

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[quote]Fistiecuffs wrote:
Good to hear from you mate, always a pleasure! What would you consider good ratio of horizontal and vertical pulling, I can do 15+ reps with 70lbs one arm Db row as well, what kind of ratio should I shoot for between the two (say weighted chins and Db row for example)?

Also meant to ask you about work out nutrition, what kind of nutrition would you suggest during/before training with weights and how would that differentiate from MT? I remember you mentioned something about this in donny’s log, just can’t seem to find it right now. What I currently have is plenty of whey and maltodextrin, creatine and very little BCAA, which is a shame cause can’t really fit more in the budget right now but I’ve always found they’ve made a noticable difference in recovery. Creatine is something I’ll be introducing to my supplement stack for the first time, obviously its one of those things that need to be cut out before fight to get rid of the extra weight but decided to give it a go since its really cheap anyways so why not. Since it probably makes a difference, I like eating a nice big meal with somewhere around 100g carbs about 2,5hrs before MT, don’t really eat much before morning workouts cause I basically jump out of the bed, get dressed and head to gym to get my workout done in time so not much time to wait for food to digest. Post workout I like hitting similiar numbers with a little more protein and fat, food sources are clean, so mostly lean meats, rice, oats, greek yogurt, nuts and ton of veggies.[/quote]

Nutrition–workout nutrition needs whey and maltodextrin approximately 1:2 ratio. For weight workouts I suggest between 20-35g protein depending on length of workout and volume (higher volume and longer time mean more protein/carbs). If it’s a quick workout like 15 minutes long you can get by with just 15-20g protein and 20g carbs or so.

For sparring/MT I suggest more carbs. The endurance nature of the training means carbs are a bigger need and although protein is good to have here too much can mess with your stomach I find. Again I suggest preloading, and then maintaining a steady influx during training. Starting point is probably around 20g protein/60g carbs, about a 1:3 ratio. MT is much less stressful on the muscles themselves (via microtrauma or tearing) than your endurance, so protein is important but not as vital. Drink 1/3 about 20 minutes before training, then sip the rest during and try to be done with it around the time you walk out. Same for weight workouts. If you can’t get up earlier for food at least get up early enough to slug down 1/3 or 1/2 of your shake 20 minutes before warm-ups.

Your job with workout nutrition is to fuel performance, not cut weight. If you have to cut weight you use the rest of the day to do that unless absolutely necessary. Training on a completely empty stomach does not fuel performance, neither does training on a very full stomach. The high carb meal you have before MT is fine, I personally like mine about 3 hours out so I can start sipping my shake about 20 minutes prior, but your mileage may vary. Your post workout meal is fine.

BCAAs are great if you can afford to get more of them, if not at least use the whey. Creatine is extremely useful but my vote goes to beta-alanine for the endurance nature of your competitive sport.

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Alright, I think I’m seeing the issue with my snatches, going to play around with that tommorrow with light weight after cleans to see how that feels. I wasn’t trying to “eccentric press” it down, but rather just dropping it and catching it too much with shoulders while at the same time losing too much tension from upper back. I feel like over all thats probably one of the issues that come from these internally rotated shoulders, its really even more of a problem in the overhead press where I can squeeze the back tight just fine on the way up and when the bar is overhead, but soon as I start to bring it down I’m finding it real hard to keep the tension there and my shoulders end up in a bad possition causing pain.

I’ve usually been done with my workout shake by the time I’m done with my main excercise, usually started sipping it during warm up but I can start it earlier just fine. How high would you suggest eventually going with carbs/protein for longer MT workouts, just keep bumping them until I feel like my stomach can’t handle it or till I shit myself? I absolutely agree workout nutrition is vital enough to keep in diet as long as absolutely possible, I was referring to creatine being the thing to go few weeks before fight to get rid of the extra water it stores in body. I actually prefer to have my meal 3 hrs before training as well, but usually it ends up being the said 2,5hrs mostly due to schedule problems. Would you suggest I use the little BCAAs I have for more taxing sparring sessions or weight training? I’m kinda guessing the answer is going to be weights, but better be safe than sorry and all that!

Today is a big day because I finally got my ass to the store and bought myself my very own foam roller! Had to hit solid 1,5hrs of pads/mits/bag work until absolutely exhausted after having already sparred 1hr before that, just to make sure my first meeting with my new best friend is going to be painful!

Thanks again, your advice has really been worth its weight in gold!

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You definitely don’t want to crap yourself hahaha. If you’re not worried about a weight class limit (i.e. you are too far away from the top of your class to worry about it or you don’t cut weight to fight) more is better unless it causes stomach upset. In which case, more is better + a bit more or LESS water to find your sweet spot in terms of digestion. (too dilute might mean too much liquid in your stomach while too little might mean your stomach isn’t happy with the high concentration of carbs/protein).

If you have to worry about a weightclass use the most you can until your weight starts to creep into the “caution” zone where you know you’ll have a hard time cutting down. Then decrease intake a little and keep it there. More is better.

I dunno if you’re in the US or not, but if you are it might be worth just buying Surge Workout Fuel from here as your carb source. It’s very reasonable for carb sources and very much superior to maltodextrin alone in my experience, as I have used both. Mix your protein in according to whatever you want. If not or if it’s out of your budget then everything else I said stands.

BCAAs, weight training without a doubt. You can experiment with a couple sparring sessions if you want but I’m about 95% certain that you will notice a bigger effect on recovery from your weight training.

Oh I love the foam roller. Just wait until you get a lacrosse ball or baseball. Those are brutal on point adhesions.

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If only I did live in US, no Surge Workout Fuel here in Europe far as I’m concerned, unless I want to pay ridiculous money to have it shiped across the sea. Wouldn’t it make more sense to keep workout nutrition high as possible and try to keep my weight lower by cutting calories from other meals, since as far as my understanding goes the shake you get down before/during/after training has the biggest effect on recovery?

Whey and malto are dirt cheap calories too, so it’d be good budget wise as well (I study in university, I can cover my rent with student allowance and studying is free but food and everything else comes out of my savings which I plan to make last as long as possible). I’ve pretty much ballooned up with my weight a whole lot last few weeks lifting about 3 times a week and only been getting my MT training in full gear this week, I plan to decrease the calories in small steps, I kind of have the tendency to want everything right now so as a result I sometimes tend to drop the calories too fast if my weight is not going down the way I want it to and this is probably not a good idea for recovery and metabolism.

And my first fight most likely won’t come until next Fall as I have a bit too many things going on right now to really have the kind of focus and determination I’d hope to have when actually getting in there, so it’s not like I’m in any kind of hurry.

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Also, regarding the hang snatch technique, I played around with it for a few sets yesterday. Didn’t quite get it down yet, but I did a bit more reading and I think I see where the issue might be. I think I’ll play around with it a little for the 4 sessions I have left of this clean progression, see where it takes me. I’ll be moving tomorrow, and my new location would be about 2,5km (1,5 miles) from the gym where I’d have access to blocks and bumper plates, so I could be doing box jumps and hang snatches from blocks so no need to play around with catching the weight.

Would you consider a combination of snatches and box jumps better/equally suited for my goals? The distance from house to gym will be covered by running, so throwing the sprint workout in the mix would be possible either on my way there or on my way home, or should I just run to get my heart rate up a bit?

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[quote]Fistiecuffs wrote:
If only I did live in US, no Surge Workout Fuel here in Europe far as I’m concerned, unless I want to pay ridiculous money to have it shiped across the sea. Wouldn’t it make more sense to keep workout nutrition high as possible and try to keep my weight lower by cutting calories from other meals, since as far as my understanding goes the shake you get down before/during/after training has the biggest effect on recovery?
[/quote]

Yep and that’s exactly why I said what I did. Definitely inch down a slow bit in calories, not sharply. One big reason why people complain that you can’t take fight training seriously and lift seriously is that they don’t eat enough along with completely lacking workout nutrition. Or, in typical fashion, they cut ALL the calories at once and wonder why they feel terrible with achy joints :).

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[quote]Fistiecuffs wrote:
Also, regarding the hang snatch technique, I played around with it for a few sets yesterday. Didn’t quite get it down yet, but I did a bit more reading and I think I see where the issue might be. I think I’ll play around with it a little for the 4 sessions I have left of this clean progression, see where it takes me. I’ll be moving tomorrow, and my new location would be about 2,5km (1,5 miles) from the gym where I’d have access to blocks and bumper plates, so I could be doing box jumps and hang snatches from blocks so no need to play around with catching the weight.

Would you consider a combination of snatches and box jumps better/equally suited for my goals? The distance from house to gym will be covered by running, so throwing the sprint workout in the mix would be possible either on my way there or on my way home, or should I just run to get my heart rate up a bit?[/quote]

Yes. I consider the snatch better than the clean for a variety of reasons for your particular goals if you can only pick ONE (but I don’t like picking only one haha). The more kinds of jumping and bounding the better (note I’m not saying more VOLUME). Don’t use only one kind, although box jumps are very easy to recover from so they are a good choice.

Don’t do sprint workouts before olympic lifting. Bad idea. Just warm up in the run, and make sure you get all your mobility/foam rolling stuff done before the run so you can just hit the weighted warm-up portion without cooling your body off getting all that stuff done.

You could do the sprint workout on the way home, but only if using it as interval training for condition. If you wanted a speed workout it needs to be separate completely, so you can rest between sprints etc.

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Of course I don’t have to pick only one, but considering the techincal aspect of olympic lifting I feel like I get so much more out of them when I hit the same lift for 2-3 days a week. Better the technique, the better I feel like I can really explode and use my body to move the weight as fast as possible. Definitely will be doing a bigger variety of jumps if thats what you suggest.

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[quote]Fistiecuffs wrote:
Of course I don’t have to pick only one, but considering the techincal aspect of olympic lifting I feel like I get so much more out of them when I hit the same lift for 2-3 days a week. Better the technique, the better I feel like I can really explode and use my body to move the weight as fast as possible. Definitely will be doing a bigger variety of jumps if thats what you suggest.[/quote]

Nope, you’re dead on about that. More frequent perfect practice equals more nearly perfect execution. Of course you could always do both at every training session and just pick one to go heavier on. I tend to do this with other lifts

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[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Fistiecuffs wrote:
Of course I don’t have to pick only one, but considering the techincal aspect of olympic lifting I feel like I get so much more out of them when I hit the same lift for 2-3 days a week. Better the technique, the better I feel like I can really explode and use my body to move the weight as fast as possible. Definitely will be doing a bigger variety of jumps if thats what you suggest.[/quote]

Nope, you’re dead on about that. More frequent perfect practice equals more nearly perfect execution. Of course you could always do both at every training session and just pick one to go heavier on. I tend to do this with other lifts [/quote]

I feel like I need the ramping up sets (somewhere around 5 before reaching the weight I’ll be working that day) to kind of get in the zone and get the technique down, so doing both would mean I’d have to sort of super set them or it would take too long to finish, unless I’d reduce the volume in both.

If I’m going to start running to the gym and back I’d like to get my lifting done in 30-40min, I’ve found that I can get in about 7 sets of ramping to about 10% over the training weight for the day, followed by 5 work sets with the training weight, all done with jump squats in the middle, done in about 25-30 minutes, so that’d leave me about 10 minutes to do some assistance work.

I have kind of got the impression that you are a fan of doing strength work frequently, so would you think I might be better off switching my pulling assistance work (rowing and pull/chin ups) to be done after my MT sessions? This way I could easily get in more volume, and I could focus more on rotational/antirotational and back/glutes/hamstrings, for example the medicine ball rotational exercise you mentioned, super set with good mornings or RDLs, and on another day pallof press superset with GHRs, for as many quality sets as I can get in with the time I have left.

Ran my first 5km this year yesterday, speed is slower than I’d like but I know I’ll get it done much faster once my body drops the few excess pounds of fat and gets used to running again. Was tight and sore all over but luckily I was able to squeeze in like 4 sessions with foam roller, must’ve spent almost 2hrs rolling and sweating in pain but boxing this morning felt so much better than it did on Monday.

So technique is getting there, hopefully I’ll get all my shit moved to my home this weekend and have time to cook up next weeks foods so I’ll be all set and ready to attack the week head on with full power :slight_smile:

37

Okay, moving was mostly done by around 11:30pm yesterday so I managed to hit the gym today, distance was shorter than I tought, 1,25 miles which suits me just fine cause it shouldn’t take me more than 10 minutes of running at most. Didn’t have too much time because I had somewhere to be and seems like I get there in a bad hour because the weightlifting platform was pretty crowded, managed to get myself a bar and a set of low blocks so I decided to just give it a go and see how I’d do with snatches, didn’t do any plyos until I was done with my snatches though, wouldn’t have been the first time someone decided to borrow a plate from a bar in between sets… Luckily enough I’ll mostly be hitting the gym in morning hours when theres not too many people hitting the weights so I’ll have all the equipment I’ll need. So, to the workout.

Did some triples from the hang, I’m not completely sure about my mobility deadlifting the bar from the ground with snatch grip so low blocks were a welcome addition as it helped me set up better. Didn’t have proper olympic lifting bar either so on two occasions I had to adjust my grip during set (despite using hook grip, too smooth bar and sweaty hands sliding).
3x3x66lbs, 3x3x77lbs, 4x3x88lbs, 2x3x99lbs +1x1x110lbs
I find it really easy to put my hips in to work here, was able to find the proper width for my feet somewhere around sets 6 and 7. I had a little bit of a hard time squeezing the upper back in the overhead possition, I’m thinking about doing two or three sets of heavy overhead holds during first few warm up sets to help me get it down before hitting the work sets. I think I might also finally have figured the way to catch the bar on the way down pain free, I sort of do a quarter squat, let the bar drop while doing a little “hop” and catching it when I’m on my way down with a slight bend from the knees. Is this something similiar to what you ment with cushioning the impact of dropping the bar with your legs?
Followed this up with two sets of good mornings, 2x10x110lbs, superset with some verticals, and hit the road again.

I feel like I get my quads worked more when I’m doing power cleans but over all I just fucking love snatching, I can actually feel the same muscles (mainly my hips) working that generate most of the power while kicking and punching! Might just start with these straight up, looking to squeeze in maybe 3 or 4 sessions next week so I can keep the weights fairly low and volume high to really focus on nailing the technique the best I can before starting to put together some kind of a progression. If I can’t manage to set up a training session with any of my usual training partners on Tue I might even experiment with hitting the snatches first, followed by 1hr open technique class, trying to figure out how it affects my performance. Wed morning is probably going to be a quick running with snatches and minimal assistance work, it’d be good to see if snatching two days in a row hurts performance (lifting numbers) as bad as cleans. Porbably going to hit similiar session with a little more assistance work on Friday morning, and maybe try to hit a proper good session next Sunday.

Also, would you think it’d be a complete pussy move to get some chalk for lifting the girly weights I’m snatching? I hate it when my grip slips but I kind of assume I have a ridiculously weak grip too which is why I’m sometimes strugling to even hit snatches for triples while using hook grip, much easier to hold the bar when lifting ofter some big fucker has been pulling some five wheels a side and there is some chalk on the bar already.

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I am a fan of frequent strength work, and that’s what I’ve had my fighters do in the past (power snatch, front or back squat, push press 4 or 5 days a week + assistance work). But it very much depends on your readiness and mobility/technique so I refrain from being a very strong advocate over the internet much of the time (for fighters at least–every fighter has some weird injury/tick, mobility issue that usually needs addressing so I don’t feel comfortable giving blanket recommendations).

It also depends on your schedule, sometimes not very available for doing something like that. So long story short, YES big frequency fan but not going to always recommend that unless I know your readiness factor. But yeah I definitely like the back after MT idea for sure. Do it. You’re better off focusing on rotation/anti-rotation and glutes/hips More frequently you can train your back the better off you are. For reference I am doing something similar, working back 5 times a week, squatting 5 times a week, and doing snatch/high pulls 3x a week at least. It is very manageable if you break up the work like you suggested above.

Regarding the snatch/clean in one session, I was thinking of very light on one lift–in other words, work heavy for snatch, do cleans after at like 50-60%. In other words, just technique practice at warm-up weights.

Fucking excellent that you can feel your hips and kicking muscles working in the snatch–that’s what it’s there for. Perfect. Don’t bother with snatch below the knees because it is the hardest part of the technique to nail and you’re much more concerned with the hips as a fighter–use hang or blocks from a couple inches above the knee cap. Yes chalk is definitely good, no feeling bad. If you struggle with grip you will struggle to keep consistent timing and technique.

Your technique for letting the bar down sounds kind of like what I am thinking of but it is very difficult to say for sure without actually seeing haha. But if pain free and your legs are taking the brunt, good. I don’t hop on the way down to save energy but it sounds similar otherwise.

The frequency is really not a deal breaker–think about it, you can get snatch work done inside 15-20 minutes, so you can potentially do it every day even if you’re not doing a “full” workout. Same with back. I do this frequently. I have 20 minutes before work and 20 minutes over lunch, so it’s just 1 lift: overhead press before work… and either only snatch or a super set during lunch. Something like pull-aparts/high pulls or snatch/rows/abs/rest. Repeat for 20 minutes. You can get in a lot of quality work in 20 minutes this way, although I typically save back work for the evening when I have the most time and use the lunch for chest/shoulders/tricep pump work. These are NOT conditioning circuits though, so while I am moving and not resting as much it is geared around performance rather than rushing from exercise to exercise in a “circuit”. Quality over quantity.

This does however allow me to overhead press 4-5 days a week, work my back 5 days a week in some capacity, squat 5 days a week, and train my “bodybuilder muscles” 3 times a week. And I work 13-14 hour days. I have routinely done snatch 5 days in a row before as well.

Do your iso holds overhead either before any snatch work or after all the snatch work. Don’t break the train of thought where technique is concerned by doing them in the middle of your olympic lifting, that will only lead to more bad habits.

If you can only do 1 exercise in a given time frame (“wed will be probly snatches with minimal assistance work”) do snatches. Or high pulls. They will do the most for you and you can do it very quickly. Snatch works pretty much everything, everywhere. You can follow a snatch up with overhead squats (snatch, then hold and overhead squat, then drop the bar) if you feel good and strong and have the time, and that will get even more benefits. And if not, you’re still getting a ton of benefits from snatching so it’s not really important to overhead squat at all anyways (that’s a bonus and not one of the top movements for you right now).

Your idea to experiment on tuesday with snatch before technique is totally good idea. It should not negatively affect your technique workif that’s all you do, and will give good benefits to power.

Take home message: the body is capable of much, much more than most fighters think it is where weight training is concerned…but planning the training is essential. You have to know when to push and when to just get good work in.

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Regarding the small hop after letting the bar drop, I figured that it should take some stress off my shoulders since I catch the bar when I’m moving down as well so maybe the gravity won’t be such a big enemy trying to rip my shoulders off. Actually snatch+OHS combination would also sound like a pretty good way to force the proper tightness and OH position, so maybe I’ll do a few singles like that after working the snatch and see where that takes me.

Time to get the ball rolling then I guess, I think I’ll be logging my training here for a while updating two or three times a week, because I’m sure I’ll come up with a whole bunch of questions pretty soon and trying to keep the data coming so in case something goes wrong there is some way of identifying where I messed up and learn from it. Thanks for the detailed response, and I actually got the high frequency strength idea from your ‘how you train’ thread at BSL which I’ve read a few times already :smiley:

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So, a little update. Monday was pretty normal workout, 1hr class of pads, mostly drilling different techniques, followed up by 5 rounds of mits with a solid pace. Don’t have a scale at home so no wonder what the weight is, but I was feeling more mobile and agile already and my training partner holding the mits said there definitely was a bit more pop in my punches so guess I must be doing something right. In spite of the lifting and running I was able to work in some nice slips, surely the volume on glutes and lower back was lower but still it feels like body must be adapting already so its a good thing I can keep that work in without sacrificing quality on MT work.

Tue got to gym in time for morning MT training, awesome sessions because there are often around 2-4 guys there so you get some pretty good coaching, we started with some bag kicking and proceeded to light drilling, focusing on moving, slipping, blocking kicks, countering and clinching. For my evening session I managed to book some light sparring with a guy I train with quite frequently, was still planning on hitting the weights before the session but with some school work to finish I just didn’t have the time so ended up working some triples just focusing on technique after sparring, its not like we kept a grueling pace or anything, just working on movement and throwing some light combinations, so I felt I could manage this.

Wasn’t really expecting much explosiveness and didn’t really have a lot, but I got in a few sets with something I would consider pretty good technique, bar traveling close to body, did some combinations of snatch+OHS as well. All in all probably about 4-5 sets at 88lbs. Its a funny thing, I feel like both in MT and Oly lifting my technique actually gets better with out even noticing, cause when my body tires I have to excecute with as perfect of a technique as possible in order to get the job done. Definitely not ideal for training a specific quality like speed, but its a funny observation I’ve made. There was some shit I had to handle in the evening and when I eventually got in my PWO meal it was late so I decided to just ditch the recovery work as I was pretty tired and just hit the bed, which was a big mistake.

So as a result, I didn’t sleep too well and had to do a little more foam rolling than usually to get started with morning work. Running felt like shit, I’ve done something to piss my right ankle off big time, was just a minor annoyance during the run but after showering I was really feeling it, hope it gets better by tomorrow so I can get in the sparring session, if not I guess its time to get in a upper body session for a change. As for what I did this morning, once I got to gym I had some 30min to get my work in. I was the first guy on the platform, just went straight to snatching, decided to do some form work with broomstick in between sets to really get the movement down, will look to start up with plyos for my next session.

I did 2x3x66lbs, 2x3x77lbs, 2x3x88lbs, 2x2x100lbs, 2x2x110lbs, 1x2x121lbs, 1x3x88lbs. Was shooting for something closer to 5 reps on my last set but grip slipped after the 3rd so thats all I got. Was really surprised how easy I got up to such weights, I don’t really think I’ve ever done much snatching over 110lbs. Surely the second rep with 121 was absolute rubbish, ended up sort of pressing the bar for the final inch or so, but again, this was more of an issue because my grip wasn’t nearly as tight for the second rep.

Definitely need to go shopping for some chalk tomorrow… Thats all the work I got done in 30 minutes, technique is getting there and I did feel comfortable working with bigger weights today, so thats most likely a good sign. Might keep the snatching volume a little higher for one or two sessions before kicking the assistance work in to full gear again, just to make sure I have a decent base from which to start building. Currently sitting at school and won’t be out until 7pm so no evening session today, probably wouldn’t have gotten one in anyway due to the ankle.

Hope I can manage about an hour or so of taking care of the body in the evening, lots of foam rolling, pain and sweating. Such a funny thing how much it really helps and you won’t notice it until you miss it once…