Training on TRT

I have a question about training, specifically gaining muscle, while on TRT.

I had test levels of about 200. I’m seeing a great endocrinologist who has me on 150mg of test cyp twice a week with arimidex. I’m even able to refill my Rx early sometimes and end up with “extra” test. I had my levels checked, and they have been from 550 to usually around 700-800 and its been as high as 1100.

My question is what kind of training effect could I expect from this? Currently, I have been focusing on losing weight and burning fat. I’m down 18 pounds, and I want to drop another 5-10 before eating to build muscle in another 6 weeks.

What should I expect? How should I alter my training?

More volume? More frequency? More intensity? Go beyond failure??

Please help? Thanks!!

EDIT: sorry, I see a similar thread was made, but I’m wondering about program design to those who are on TRT.

So you are taking 300mg of test C weekly…
That’s a lot on TRT dosage… What are your E levels at ?

Hey,

You are on TRT not on 1g of test a week :smiley: You should train like natural people train. Whether you hit every muscle once or twice a week and what sets and reps that depends on your body and genetics. I like hitting each muscle group twice a week, once with low reps heavy and then high reps.

What should you expect now that you are on TRT is very individual. Depends on your genetics, muscle fibers etc. How low where you T levels before TRT? Now that you are on TRT you should be getting results on a monthly basis. Dont expect steroid like results but you will get consistent results as long as everything is in check.

Just be sure mate that now that your levels are optimal just focus on what matters. If you are over 15% bodyfat i would suggest cutting down to 10% before “bulking” . This for hormonal and nutrient partitioning reasons. Find a good workout that focuses on compound movements and make sure you are getting stronger on a weekly basis. You might not be putting weight on the bar every week but you can increase reps. Just find a good workout make sure you diet is in check (again diet is individual) and give it your 100%.

Consistency and perseverance will pay off i guarantee that!! Just dont get carried away by all the billion workouts and diet plans that exist out there. Pick 1, stick with it for a while get as strong as possible (in the 5-12 rep range) and then consider changing your program.

Good luck bro.
Jon

[quote]Macmathews wrote:
So you are taking 300mg of test C weekly…
That’s a lot on TRT dosage… What are your E levels at ?

[/quote]

Wow just noticed that. I thought i read 150 a week. That is a very high dose and not a TRT dose usually. Hemoglobin, blood pressure everything is ok in long run with that type of dose?

Jon

You should see great results in the gym on 300mg a week.

FYI, that is a cycle dose, not trt. I hope he is also getting you the proper ancillaries that you will for sure need on 300mg a week.

Not criticizing, just saying. I would like to have your doc.

[quote]Macmathews wrote:
So you are taking 300mg of test C weekly…
That’s a lot on TRT dosage… What are your E levels at ?

[/quote]

No sorry, 75 twice a week so 150 total. E level is between 18-22.

My doc said my “red blood cell count was high”. That has been his biggest concern. But he has been pretty liberal with my dose since I’m fairly young, active and have fitness goals.

What does a high red blood cell count mean? I should have asked more questions, but didn’t.

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

[quote]Macmathews wrote:
So you are taking 300mg of test C weekly…
That’s a lot on TRT dosage… What are your E levels at ?

[/quote]

No sorry, 75 twice a week so 150 total. E level is between 18-22.

My doc said my “red blood cell count was high”. That has been his biggest concern. But he has been pretty liberal with my dose since I’m fairly young, active and have fitness goals.

What does a high red blood cell count mean? I should have asked more questions, but didn’t.
[/quote]

How high was it? Your hematocrit and hemoglobin were high?

Some people have problems when they go on TRT. i think its called Polycythaemia. you need to monitor it and i believe if i am not mistaken the only way to treat is with blood donations or lowering your t dose at a dose where you wont have issues.

NorCal916,

I am a former Natural competitive bodybuilder and answered a similar question in a like thread. I modified my previous answer it to your question below…

There is no real difference in training programs with or without TRT. The amount of muscle mass you will gain will be based on genetic potential, diet and training program. Keeping TT levels in the top 25% or so with your E2 levels in check will be helpful but is only a small part of the total equation.

I would not worry about dropping another 5-10 ponds before start a weight-training program. With the right training program you should not have to worry about the diet much as the weight will come off slowly and naturally as you put on muscle. Just eat 5 meals a day with 20-40grams of protein each meal and some complex carbs with no junk food and use common sense.

Train 5-6 times a week for a maximum of 1 hour each time with a high level of intensity. A routine like the below will give you the fastest gains once you get your basic foundation back. Depending on your current condition you may need to go slow for the first 2-3 months to build a basic foundation and get comfortable with the exercises.

Routine:

  • Warm up 2 sets of your first exercise then do 3 to 5 exercises for 3 to 5 sets each. (large body parts like legs and back on the high end of the range and smaller body parts like biceps on the low end).

  • Rep range from 6-12 most sets should be about 10 reps to failure or 1 rep shy. Find a spotter for a couple forced reps on select exercises.

  • Workouts should never be longer than 1hr and be high intensity the entire time. Rest between 1-3 min between sets (Closer to 3min after heavy squats or other intense compound movements closer to 1min for curls and similar)

  • With TRT I now can train each bodypart once every 5-6 days. Prior to TRT I would do one bodypart a week. Depending on your recovery see what works best.

  • This is a good schedule: Day 1: Chest, Day 2: Back, Day 3: Shoulders, Day 4: Arms, Day 5: Legs, Day 6: Rest then start again. Now I just keep going and put in a rest day when I feel I need it. If you want to stay on a 7 day cycle so everything is always trained on the same day put another rest day between back and Shoulders.

  • Keep protein intake at ~1 to 1.5 grams per pound bodyweight. Take ~30 grams right after working out. I find Creatine is also helpful and take 5 grams when I get up in the morning and 5 grams after I lift.

  • Stick with the basic exercises and hit every set hard.

What works well…

Chest: Bench Press, Flat Dumbbell Press, Incline Dumbbells.

Shoulders: Seated barbell Press, Upright Rows, Shrugs, Dumbbell Overhead Presses, Dumbbell side laterals.

Arms: Bar Curls, Preacher Curls, Dumbbell Curls, Triceps Extensions, Pushdowns, Close Grip Bench, Dips.

Back: Pull-ups, Long Pulley Rows, T Bar Rows, One Arm Dumbbell Rows, Dead lifts.

Legs: Squats, Hack Squats, Leg Presses, Leg Curls, Leg Extensions.

For all bodyparts - Hammer Strength machines are also effective to mix things up.

I realize that some may feel that 300mg of test per week may be high for HRT (and I know he modified it 150/week) but aren’t the blood levels really what should dictate how much test one takes.

On another note, to deal with a high hematocrit…yes, one can give blood but in CA you can only give one pint every 8 weeks and that is replaced quickly. If a doctor says you should give more often they charge $250. Insurance doesn’t cover that

And yes, one can modify their testosterone therapy level. That for sure works.

There is another option and that is blood thinners. Sort of an out of the box thought but I’ve done it for 10 years. There are some new ones out such as Xarelto that have virtually no side effects like warfarin does.

A lot of things in HRT are 2 steps forward and one backward. One can eliminate one of the steps forward or go deal with the one backward.

[quote]jon222 wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

[quote]Macmathews wrote:
So you are taking 300mg of test C weekly…
That’s a lot on TRT dosage… What are your E levels at ?

[/quote]

No sorry, 75 twice a week so 150 total. E level is between 18-22.

My doc said my “red blood cell count was high”. That has been his biggest concern. But he has been pretty liberal with my dose since I’m fairly young, active and have fitness goals.

What does a high red blood cell count mean? I should have asked more questions, but didn’t.
[/quote]

How high was it? Your hematocrit and hemoglobin were high?

Some people have problems when they go on TRT. i think its called Polycythaemia. you need to monitor it and i believe if i am not mistaken the only way to treat is with blood donations or lowering your t dose at a dose where you wont have issues.[/quote]

Saw my doc, my red blood cell count was right at 18. He said he felt we could keep the dose the same and I could donate blood at the Red Cross every few months and see if we could get it to 17. Test was 906 with E @ 21. Lipid levels were “perfect” since I’ve been on 10 mg Lipitor.

I’m doing a similar program to the one mentioned above too.