Well ladies and gentlemen, I know it has been a while since I have had the opportunity to answer some of your questions. I have been going through a rough patch over here. On 10 MAR, 5 members of my old platoon were killed by a suicide bomber.
I am sure that most of you heard of the attack in the news. These men were all heroes and gave their live in defense of our great nation and its freedom. I had the distinct privelege of being their platoon leader for 13 months. We became as close as a family with all the time we spent training and on the deployment.
I am still sad that I wasnt there to help them, but in the end, I know that there was nothing I could do. I will never forget these men and the sacrifice that they gave in the defense of freedom. Everyone who posts on this website should be thankful that heroes like this exist to protect our freedoms.
Its a shame that the extremists over here think that it is righteous to blow themselves up and take the lives of inoocent people. Where is the glory? Maybe it is the society that we grow up in America, but I would never think twice about taking my own life, let alone taking others down with me.
I come to think of this as down right psychotic. No where in the Koran does it say that taking your own life to harm others is morally justified. It is an extreme distortion of the truth, and is a shame that people who think like this exist. We cannot change the mindset of brainwashed people.
It is damn near impossible. I hate the fact that it took one crazy bastard to take away the people that are extremely close to me. It is unfathomable.
I hope that all of you who read this say a prayer and thank these men for giving their lives in defense of freedom. I do belive that we are here for a good reason, and that we cannot give up the fight. If we did, then all the men and women that have died in this war, have given their lives in vain. I will sure continue to fight until I cannot fight anymore.
I will return in the next few days to answer some of your questions. It will take me that long to read all the comments, but I do thank you for all your support. God Bless. Happy Easter!!
I don’t know about the in “defense of freedom” part, but you have my most sincere condolences.
They did not die in “defense of freedom” anymore than their assassin. Know that just because you believe in something doesn’t necessarily make it true. They were pawns and have fallen victims to folly of an American president who wanted control over Iraq.
I don’t understand how you can speak of “protect our freedoms”. I heard the line where American soldiers were willing to die to protect the freedoms of Iraqis (and despite our disagreements.
I find that a very noble and commendable goal) but the argument that turing Iraq into the place it is today somehow relates to the freedoms of Atlantans or NewYorkers, makes absolutely no sense. I’m curious to know what rational logic you used there.
[quote]lixy wrote:
I don’t know about the in “defense of freedom” part, but you have my most sincere condolences.
They did not die in “defense of freedom” anymore than their assassin. Know that just because you believe in something doesn’t necessarily make it true. They were pawns and have fallen victims to folly of an American president who wanted control over Iraq.
I don’t understand how you can speak of “protect our freedoms”. I heard the line where American soldiers were willing to die to protect the freedoms of Iraqis (and despite our disagreements. I find that a very noble and commendable goal) but the argument that turing Iraq into the place it is today somehow relates to the freedoms of Atlantans or NewYorkers, makes absolutely no sense. I’m curious to know what rational logic you used there.[/quote]
C’mon now, even I wouldn’t troll this thread, and I love trolling.
I find that a very noble and commendable goal) but the argument that turing Iraq into the place it is today somehow relates to the freedoms of Atlantans or NewYorkers, makes absolutely no sense. I’m curious to know what rational logic you used there.[/quote]
You’ve been shown this argument logically and rationally time and again.
Your response? Plugging your ears with your fingers screaming “lalalalalala I don’t have to listen to you”, or, in the alternative, threatening to hold your breath till you pass out.
I find that a very noble and commendable goal) but the argument that turing Iraq into the place it is today somehow relates to the freedoms of Atlantans or NewYorkers, makes absolutely no sense. I’m curious to know what rational logic you used there.
You’ve been shown this argument logically and rationally time and again.
Your response? Plugging your ears with your fingers screaming “lalalalalala I don’t have to listen to you”, or, in the alternative, threatening to hold your breath till you pass out.
[/quote]
It always involved some elusive WMDs, an alleged Saddam-Osama link and scary talk about mushroom clouds. That’s not rational by a long shot.
If anything, turning Iraq into the terrorist haven it is today made the world a little less safe. To go further, 4000 dead young Americans took plenty of freedom from their families. And forcibly taking trillion dollars from taxpayers to then squander it over there in Iraq is as anti-freedom as it can get.
It always involved some elusive WMDs, an alleged Saddam-Osama link and scary talk about mushroom clouds. That’s not rational by a long shot.[/quote]
No, it always included the 2002 NIE report, Resolution 1441 of the UN, a rational understanding of international security since the Cold War, and Saddam’s terror links. But, of course you wouldn’t remember any of that - that would require reading and digesting information disagreeable to your predetermined ideological conclusions.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
lixy wrote:
It always involved some elusive WMDs, an alleged Saddam-Osama link and scary talk about mushroom clouds. That’s not rational by a long shot.
No, it always included the 2002 NIE report, Resolution 1441 of the UN, a rational understanding of international security since the Cold War, and Saddam’s terror links. But, of course you wouldn’t remember any of that - that would require reading and digesting information disagreeable to your predetermined ideological conclusions.[/quote]
Then I guess the majority of your compatriots have the same “predetermined ideological conclusions” that don’t let them have a rational understanding of the situation, ey?
Huh??? CBS was all excited about the war in 2003. Their crew was all too happy to parrot the White House’s position without any critical judgement.
But if you insist on discarding the poll conducted by CBS, I suggest you take a look at the ones from the Wall Street Journal, CNN, Gallup, USA today, the Washington Post, ABC News, Opinion Research Corporation, Pew Research Center, Newsweek and the Princeton Survey Research Associates International. They pretty much converge on every single aspect.
Public opinion isn’t carved in stone and I picked the CNN poll because it was the most recent.
I don’t want to get into an argument with you because I know where you stand on the Bush’s decision to attack Iraq. My question was directed at our the newest poster on this board. He seems to believe that American freedoms were somehow connected to pre-2003 Iraq. I just wanted to hear how he came to that conclusion.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Someone…remind me what this thread was about…so I can remind Lixy. [/quote]
Look, I agreed with the main point. What happened is indeed a tragedy and I greatly sympathize with Rogue for losing his pals. The guy who killed them was technically dead before them, whatever his reasons for doing so were. What I am defending here, is the idea that the criminals who put them in that situation be held responsible.
Thousands of Americans are already dead and many more are disabled to get American bases in Iraq, NOT because they were defending your freedoms. At best, one can claim that they were defending the freedom of Iraqis since they got Saddam out. I understand that speaking of “defense of our freedoms” can be a very powerful rethorical tool, but it doesn’t pass the test of reason is all I’m saying.
P.S: The same bomb that killed Rogue’s buddies injured three US soldiers and killed 10 Iraqi civilians.
Then I guess the majority of your compatriots have the same “predetermined ideological conclusions” that don’t let them have a rational understanding of the situation, ey?
And, as usual, you make my point for me - when presented with the rational information above, you refuse to address it.
Forget polls or links - in a debate, you have been shown the arguments, and [b]you[/b] won’t deal with them. That is the problem - you have been shown the rational information, and you have never sufficiently dealt with those claims. You ignore it.
So don’t complain that no one has ever given you the rational defense of the Iraq war - it’s been delivered to you many times in good faith. You just don’t want to admit it because it lays bare your limitations.
Then I guess the majority of your compatriots have the same “predetermined ideological conclusions” that don’t let them have a rational understanding of the situation, ey?
And, as usual, you make my point for me - when presented with the rational information above, you refuse to address it.
Forget polls or links - in a debate, you have been shown the arguments, and [b]you[/b] won’t deal with them. That is the problem - you have been shown the rational information, and you have never sufficiently dealt with those claims. You ignore it.
So don’t complain that no one has ever given you the rational defense of the Iraq war - it’s been delivered to you many times in good faith. You just don’t want to admit it because it lays bare your limitations.[/quote]
Once again, there’s nothing in what you said that makes the case about how American soldiers are fighting (or rather dying) for the “freedoms” of their compatriots. I didn’t ask about the legality of the war, which despite the international overwhelming opposition to it (I know, I know, they’re all commies) remains purely conjectural.
I asked the OP a simple question. Attacking Iraq turned the place into a terrorist breeding ground and made the US more vulnerable to the new breed. The CIA acknowledged that much. I don’t understand how one can be rational (flag-junkies don’t fall into that category) and still claim the poor GIs died in “defense of our freedoms” in conjonction with the war on Iraq.
I pointed out that you have been shown this logic, over and over, by others, and you have flatly refused to meet those debates on the merits. Why ask it of the OP if you are just going to ignore it the same as you always do because you haven’t the capacity to deal with the arguments?
You’ve shown neither willingness nor ability to deal with the arguments that support the idea that an Iraq war improves our security profile - “defending freedoms”, as it were - so I’m saving the OP the trouble of wasting his time and breath on you.
Reasonable people can disagree on the issue - that’s the fun part - but that is a debate that can’t include you, because, as you have admitted, that doesn’t fit in with your trolling agenda.