Too Simple?

Steven_pressnell · July 6, 2009, 2:27pm

[quote]dave_david wrote:
Most true. For some reason I had not seen the posts warning caution against the vdiet. But X i can’t agree with you more. Occasionally I accidentally click on vdiet training logs thinking i am getting the training logs.

I am shocked to see so many non muscular emaciated first timers trying to shed their belly weight. How about cutting back the beer, fries, and working out!? So to this poster…look at X’s posts, and others who have been successful and have outstanding physiques. Unless of course you aspire to look like a Jonas Brother…in which case proceed on.

Professor X wrote:
dave_david wrote:
As usual this sarcasm speaks truth.

I am starting to wonder if the V diet is misleading too many t nation’ers. Unless you want to lose bodyweight + strength then do the v diet. If your goals are to lift more, and build more muscle…F ing EAT!!! A liquid diet ain’t going to cut it. Not to mention most of the people doing the vdiet are jumping into it without even having tried eating clean, working out etc. Again I think based on studying this site for since 2002, the vdiet seems diametrically opposed to most peoples aspirations and goals.

Professor X wrote:
Gee, build strength AND lose fat at the same time. Approaching things this way is a great way to run in circles for a few years.

Now, here come the posts about how this is “possible” written by people who barely look like they lift weights.

It is and we have stated as such several times. This diet should probably not be sold to beginners the way it is. People need to learn how to see progress by eating RIGHT, not be guided into a “nutrient only diet” where they end up relatively lost as to where to go afterwards to continue seeing progress.

If they are leaving that diet under the belief that they will gain tons of muscle (this guy’s profile lists him at 190lbs yet he wants to gain 60lbs of muscle while losing more fat???) while also getting ripped at the exact same time, then they probably weren’t ready for it to start with.

[/quote]

Exactly what I’m trying to do here. Making every attempt to eat clean, I don’t drink so no sweat there, and now I’m trying to really make some progress in the gym. I’ve been a gym-goer for about 4 years. Two of those were wasted as I didn’t have a clue what I was doing.

The other two were spent undoing the damage, relearning form and technique, and losing the fat. I’m here to learn how not to look like a “Jonas Brother” and have the determination to work my ass off for one of those “outstanding” physiques

Professor_X · July 6, 2009, 2:27pm

[quote]Steven.pressnell wrote:
Proffessor X,

You’re totally right man, after the V-Diet I really am not sure what to do. That being said the V-diet was the best thing that ever happened to me. About a year and a half ago I was freakin 245 at 26-27% bodyfat, no lie. I’ve done the V-Diet twice now and am making huge efforts to eat clean so I can gain. I’m just looking for something now that I can work with over a longer period of time and at least make progress in one area with regressing in the other. [/quote]

Then you are better off changing your thinking completely. You are a beginner. It is going to take some time for you to find out the “round-about” number of calories it takes for you to even maintain your body weight, let alone gain more size that isn’t just body fat.

I have no clue (and neither do you) where your metabolism is right now. If you lost any muscle mass, then it is even lower than it was when you were heavier. That means rushing back into even eating the same as you once did will pack fat on you faster than you can blink.

That means the proper course of action for someone like you who just lost weight on a protein shake diet is monitor food intake for one to two weeks in order to see just how much food it takes to do NOTHING but maintain exactly where you are. You make adjustments from there.

thr_wedge · July 6, 2009, 2:36pm

[quote]Steven.pressnell wrote:
Exactly what I’m trying to do here. Making every attempt to eat clean, I don’t drink so no sweat there, and now I’m trying to really make some progress in the gym. I’ve been a gym-goer for about 4 years.

Two of those were wasted as I didn’t have a clue what I was doing. The other two were spent undoing the damage, relearning form and technique, and losing the fat. I’m here to learn how not to look like a “Jonas Brother” and have the determination to work my ass off for one of those “outstanding” physiques[/quote]

I have an uncle, he would always have advice and had been there done that. I used to ignore him, make the same mistakes and in the end did what he suggested in the first place (this is for pretty much everything he had an opinion on).

After shooting myself in the foot, I realized that you know what, my uncle knows what he is talking about I should just do whatever he says and go from there. Never steered me wrong. Same with the big guys on this forum. So my advice is to follow their advice.

Steven_pressnell · July 6, 2009, 2:36pm

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
Steven.pressnell wrote:
Hey guys I’ve been done with the Velocity Diet (freakin amazing program btw) for about two weeks now and I’m trying to find a good solid program I can make progress with. Any recommendations? I’m looking for something that will build strength and help continue my fat loss progress. I was thinkin about doing this program for a while. Any comments?

Monday: Heavy

Front Squat for 6x5
Rest 60 seconds
Push Press for 6x5
Rest 60 seconds
Pull Up for 6x5
Rest 60 seconds

Tuesday: Light

Deadlift for 60 reps
Ladder Technique Ã?Â¢?? Rest 30 seconds
Bench Press for 60 reps
Ladder Technique Ã?Â¢?? Rest 30 seconds
Barbell Row for 60 reps
Ladder Technique Ã?Â¢?? Rest 30 seconds

Wednesday: Off

Thursday: Light

Front Squat for 60 reps
Ladder Technique Ã?Â¢?? Rest 30 seconds
Push Press for 60 reps
Ladder Technique Ã?Â¢?? Rest 30 seconds
Pull Up for 60 reps
Ladder Technique Ã?Â¢?? Rest 30 seconds

Friday: Heavy

Deadlift for 6x5
Rest 60 seconds
Bench Press for 6x5
Rest 60 seconds
Barbell Row for 6x5
Rest 60 seconds

Instead of doing the same exercises twice a week, i’d just do them once and add in another round of choices.

i.e -
back squat, seated db press, neutral grip pull up

rack pulls, incline db bench, dumbbell row.

And by the way, I’m not sure how you plan on gaining strength and losing fat, unless you just started training…

Your best choice for the fastest gains is to maintain one and focus on the other.

You could probably do cardio for 30 minutes 3x a week before breakfast to help control the fat while you increase your strength.

[/quote]

Thanks for the critique Goodfellow! I’m realizing now that my original terminology was pathetic…I’m not so much interested in progressing in both areas simultaneously but making progress in one with out going backwards in the other. and then changing up the set/rep combo to make progress in the other area.

Steven_pressnell · July 6, 2009, 2:40pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Steven.pressnell wrote:
Proffessor X,

You’re totally right man, after the V-Diet I really am not sure what to do. That being said the V-diet was the best thing that ever happened to me. About a year and a half ago I was freakin 245 at 26-27% bodyfat, no lie.

I’ve done the V-Diet twice now and am making huge efforts to eat clean so I can gain. I’m just looking for something now that I can work with over a longer period of time and at least make progress in one area with regressing in the other.

Then you are better off changing your thinking completely. You are a beginner. It is going to take some time for you to find out the “round-about” number of calories it takes for you to even maintain your body weight, let alone gain more size that isn’t just body fat.

I have no clue (and neither do you) where your metabolism is right now. If you lost any muscle mass, then it is even lower than it was when you were heavier. That means rushing back into even eating the same as you once did will pack fat on you faster than you can blink.

That means the proper course of action for someone like you who just lost weight on a protein shake diet is monitor food intake for one to two weeks in order to see just how much food it takes to do NOTHING but maintain exactly where you are. You make adjustments from there.[/quote]

I’ve maintained for a year now. Beginner yes probably still in that category, originally (after my first V-diet) I did lose alot of muscle mass, but instead of trying to gain it all back I chose to work on technique. My second round with the V-diet I maintained every bit of strength I had and actually got stronger.

Steven_pressnell · July 6, 2009, 2:42pm

[quote]thr_wedge wrote:
Steven.pressnell wrote:
Exactly what I’m trying to do here. Making every attempt to eat clean, I don’t drink so no sweat there, and now I’m trying to really make some progress in the gym. I’ve been a gym-goer for about 4 years.

Two of those were wasted as I didn’t have a clue what I was doing. The other two were spent undoing the damage, relearning form and technique, and losing the fat. I’m here to learn how not to look like a “Jonas Brother” and have the determination to work my ass off for one of those “outstanding” physiques

I have an uncle, he would always have advice and had been there done that. I used to ignore him, make the same mistakes and in the end did what he suggested in the first place (this is for pretty much everything he had an opinion on).

After shooting myself in the foot, I realized that you know what, my uncle knows what he is talking about I should just do whatever he says and go from there. Never steered me wrong. Same with the big guys on this forum. So my advice is to follow their advice.[/quote]

Which is exactly why I’m here. Trying to learn what I can from those wiser and more accomplished than I

Professor_X · July 6, 2009, 2:55pm

[quote]Steven.pressnell wrote:

I’ve maintained for a year now. [/quote]

What? First, didn’t you just claim you just finished that diet two weeks ago? So you lost no weight at all and are the same weight you were last year?

BSC819 · July 6, 2009, 3:27pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:
dave_david wrote:
For some reason I had not seen the posts warning caution against the vdiet.

This website is for the company to make money. I understand that as much as anyone else. That is why every post that said ANYTHING negative about the V-diet was disallowed for a very long time. It took the addition of the T-Cell and quite a lot of us complaining just for the censorship to allow some discussion that didn’t sound like an infomercial.

I stay out of the V-diet forum completely. I think I’ve gone there once and the types of people in it seem to be the same type I try to avoid in the gym.[/quote]

Funny you say that, I went in the forum once and basically said that I think that the V diet is wack as hell, then I got attacked by a bunch of food deprived animals who thought that the Vdiet was straight out of the bible or something. i have never been back.

Steven_pressnell · July 7, 2009, 4:28am

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Steven.pressnell wrote:

I’ve maintained for a year now.

What? First, didn’t you just claim you just finished that diet two weeks ago? So you lost no weight at all and are the same weight you were last year?[/quote]

I’ve done it twice. First time took me to 190, with alot of muscle loss. I’ve maintained weight well and increased strength since. Second time (exactly 4 weeks ago) I didn’t keep track of weight lost, but fat significantly decreased, and have maintained since. Sorry I wasn’t as clear about this in my earlier posts.

Steven_pressnell · July 7, 2009, 4:30am

[quote]BSC819 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
dave_david wrote:
For some reason I had not seen the posts warning caution against the vdiet.

This website is for the company to make money. I understand that as much as anyone else. That is why every post that said ANYTHING negative about the V-diet was disallowed for a very long time. It took the addition of the T-Cell and quite a lot of us complaining just for the censorship to allow some discussion that didn’t sound like an infomercial.

I stay out of the V-diet forum completely. I think I’ve gone there once and the types of people in it seem to be the same type I try to avoid in the gym.

Funny you say that, I went in the forum once and basically said that I think that the V diet is wack as hell, then I got attacked by a bunch of food deprived animals who thought that the Vdiet was straight out of the bible or something. i have never been back.[/quote]

Haha that sucks. The V-Diet was a last ditch effort for me, I needed something “wack as hell” something crazy. Some people don’t need to go that extreme…I did and I’m glad I did

Stronghold · July 7, 2009, 4:35am

Why do you have two light days in a row and two heavy days in a row?

Steven_pressnell · July 7, 2009, 4:40am

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Why do you have two light days in a row and two heavy days in a row?[/quote]

It should be Heavy, Light, Light, Heavy. That’s just what I was seeing in some of the programs here, Blended Size and Strength is one of them.

Steven_pressnell · July 7, 2009, 4:44am

Here’s the bottom line. I’m stuck, I’ve done EDT and it was ok for a while and then I got bored. I loved the 5x5 but wanted to do some higher rep stuff to. I did the workouts for the V-Diet, and now don’t know where to go next. I honestly don’t think I know enough to put my own program together but I figured I’d throw it out there and see if maybe someone could toss me some nuggets of wisdom, as most people on here are lightyears ahead of me.

GluteusGigantis · July 7, 2009, 5:06am

Ok, the bottom line for where you’re at is somewhere where you seem to have been confused by the various programs floating around and are missing the general point about reaching your goal.

LIFT HEAVY WEIGHTS AND LIFT THEM OFTEN

You are not at a point where you should be doing the heavy, light, light, heavy program you outlined. You will make snail progress on this. Go to one of the many threads outlining progress, such as Prof X’s, or read some of the programs someone like Modok is doing (as an example), and follow a more traditional type routine to get progress going. And stick to it.

I’m sick of reading fuckers on this website chop and change their programs every 4 weeks cause they’ve neglected adding the intensification progressive periodization complex super-compensation double negative advanced double occlusion exercise technique.

Stick to a good, solid, fundamental program and thrash the hell out of it till you’ve maxed out your progress, chill for a week or two, then change to another core fundamental type program and repeat.

Make training simple. Lift heavy (70% 1RM plus), lift regularly (3-5x per week), train ALL bodyparts, eat regularly, eat before and after workouts and don’t get so caught up in the what and how much, use techniques that don’t hurt you but let you lift heavy, get lots of rest, IGNORE THE SCALES AND WATCH THE MIRROR, and listen more to your body than what someone in a book or on an internet page tells you.

NSB154 · July 7, 2009, 5:14am

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
mmafreak92 wrote:
Whats your goals?

just a guess

“I’m looking for something that will build strength and help continue my fat loss progress”[/quote]

LMAO!

Sentoguy · July 7, 2009, 3:37pm

[quote]GluteusGigantis wrote:
Ok, the bottom line for where you’re at is somewhere where you seem to have been confused by the various programs floating around and are missing the general point about reaching your goal.

LIFT HEAVY WEIGHTS AND LIFT THEM OFTEN

You are not at a point where you should be doing the heavy, light, light, heavy program you outlined. You will make snail progress on this. Go to one of the many threads outlining progress, such as Prof X’s, or read some of the programs someone like Modok is doing (as an example), and follow a more traditional type routine to get progress going. And stick to it.

I’m sick of reading fuckers on this website chop and change their programs every 4 weeks cause they’ve neglected adding the intensification progressive periodization complex super-compensation double negative advanced double occlusion exercise technique.

Stick to a good, solid, fundamental program and thrash the hell out of it till you’ve maxed out your progress, chill for a week or two, then change to another core fundamental type program and repeat.

Make training simple. Lift heavy (70% 1RM plus), lift regularly (3-5x per week), train ALL bodyparts, eat regularly, eat before and after workouts and don’t get so caught up in the what and how much, use techniques that don’t hurt you but let you lift heavy, get lots of rest, IGNORE THE SCALES AND WATCH THE MIRROR, and listen more to your body than what someone in a book or on an internet page tells you.[/quote]

Good post. But, for someone like the OP, he should actually pay attention to the scale (especially for his goal). The mirror can be a good gauge too, and is especially good for someone who is cutting. But for someone hoping to gain 60 lbs of muscle, the scale needs to be going up as well.

I’d say start with X’s suggestion of finding out your maintanence calories, then add 500 calories a day. If after 2 weeks the scale has gone up, keep the calories the same until it stagnates. If it hasn’t gone up, up the calories again and continue in this manner.

As far as your program, IMO it’s too simple. You want to have at least one exercise for each of the following muscle groups:
Chest
Shoulders
Back width (lats)
Back thickness (traps/rhomboids)
Biceps (pull-ups/chin-ups don’t count)
Triceps
Hamstrings
Quads
Calves
Forearms

How you organize your split is somewhat up to you. But your goal should be to add reps or weight to the bar every single time you do the same workout and to get as strong as you can on your chosen exercises within a moderate rep range (anywhere from probably 4-20 reps depending on the muscle group and your fiber make-up).

Steven_pressnell · July 8, 2009, 1:08am

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
GluteusGigantis wrote:
Ok, the bottom line for where you’re at is somewhere where you seem to have been confused by the various programs floating around and are missing the general point about reaching your goal.

LIFT HEAVY WEIGHTS AND LIFT THEM OFTEN

You are not at a point where you should be doing the heavy, light, light, heavy program you outlined. You will make snail progress on this. Go to one of the many threads outlining progress, such as Prof X’s, or read some of the programs someone like Modok is doing (as an example), and follow a more traditional type routine to get progress going. And stick to it.

I’m sick of reading fuckers on this website chop and change their programs every 4 weeks cause they’ve neglected adding the intensification progressive periodization complex super-compensation double negative advanced double occlusion exercise technique.

Stick to a good, solid, fundamental program and thrash the hell out of it till you’ve maxed out your progress, chill for a week or two, then change to another core fundamental type program and repeat.

Make training simple. Lift heavy (70% 1RM plus), lift regularly (3-5x per week), train ALL bodyparts, eat regularly, eat before and after workouts and don’t get so caught up in the what and how much, use techniques that don’t hurt you but let you lift heavy, get lots of rest, IGNORE THE SCALES AND WATCH THE MIRROR, and listen more to your body than what someone in a book or on an internet page tells you.

Good post. But, for someone like the OP, he should actually pay attention to the scale (especially for his goal). The mirror can be a good gauge too, and is especially good for someone who is cutting. But for someone hoping to gain 60 lbs of muscle, the scale needs to be going up as well.

I’d say start with X’s suggestion of finding out your maintanence calories, then add 500 calories a day. If after 2 weeks the scale has gone up, keep the calories the same until it stagnates. If it hasn’t gone up, up the calories again and continue in this manner.

As far as your program, IMO it’s too simple. You want to have at least one exercise for each of the following muscle groups:
Chest
Shoulders
Back width (lats)
Back thickness (traps/rhomboids)
Biceps (pull-ups/chin-ups don’t count)
Triceps
Hamstrings
Quads
Calves
Forearms

How you organize your split is somewhat up to you. But your goal should be to add reps or weight to the bar every single time you do the same workout and to get as strong as you can on your chosen exercises within a moderate rep range (anywhere from probably 4-20 reps depending on the muscle group and your fiber make-up).[/quote]

How would one figure their maintenance calories? I have an idea but I’d prefer to take someone else’s opinion. Thanks for the advice, stuff is startin to make sense

Sentoguy · July 8, 2009, 1:34am

[quote]Steven.pressnell wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
GluteusGigantis wrote:
Ok, the bottom line for where you’re at is somewhere where you seem to have been confused by the various programs floating around and are missing the general point about reaching your goal.