What the hell ever… strong men and women have been eating a lot of meat for a long time and it has worked for them, who gives a shit what science has to say in a case like that.
[quote]scottiscool wrote:
And I’m not sure what you meant about generically huge, I’m a baby in the bodybuilding game at 205ish on 5’8, but I want to be one of the big dogs so this is the path I follow. [/quote]
back in high school my biology teacher said that excessive water intake leads to weak bones since the water somehow interferes with the calcium intake.
[quote]Contrl wrote:
You’re quoting from one of the most hopelessly metro magazines ever published. All they concern themselves with is for men to have smaller waists and be more in touch with their “femenine side.”
When I think of Men’s Health magazine, I picture a saggy man curling a 15lb dumbbell.[/quote]
Contrl, well said brother!
Men’s Health should redeem themselves by putting Tank Abbott on the cover doing full upright rows with 315.
[quote]Damner wrote:
scottiscool wrote:
And I’m not sure what you meant about generically huge, I’m a baby in the bodybuilding game at 205ish on 5’8, but I want to be one of the big dogs so this is the path I follow.
back in high school my biology teacher said that excessive water intake leads to weak bones since the water somehow interferes with the calcium intake.[/quote]
Since you are still around, what is generically huge ha?
Water has also killed people so make sure you don’t drink any of it.
[quote]scottiscool wrote:
I have heard and read some opinions that too much protein can be detrimental to hormone production but it obviously doesn’t hurt the 1000s of bodybuilders who seem to grow despite not listening(or caring) about what a researcher who doesn’t know what a gym looks like tells them they should do.
Edited so what I was saying actually made sense[/quote]
Of course in the case of pro bodybuilders hormone production may not be of concern with some grams of exogenous test…
For the record i havent see any compeling evidence that any camp is right or wrong, so it just may boil down to individual physiology.
As always experiment and see with how much protein you grow the fastest!
ps: not trying to knock down any of the views of the previous posters, way more experienced then i am.
[quote]Damner wrote:
back in high school my biology teacher said that excessive water intake leads to weak bones since the water somehow interferes with the calcium intake.[/quote]
Possibly due to imbalances in the cell environment, too much water outside of cells making the environment suddently poor in ions like calcium; cell responds by exporting calcium out of the cell in an attempt to balance.
Or attempts to draw more water in, and the cell expands with the added water, possibly even rupture itself.
But… this is only a possible scenario and one that can be completely wrong depending on the individuals current physiology.
Like the Professor X used to type, “Biology adapts” , and i fully agree with him, reason why i dont believe that more water will always lead to weak bones.
[quote]irongutted wrote:
Of course in the case of pro bodybuilders hormone production may not be of concern with some grams of exogenous test…
.[/quote]
Yes that would certainely be true but in this case I was referring to your friendly neighborhood bodybuilder not a pro. I’m just not convinced that the protein intake that myself and many others partake in has a significant impact on the hormones in the body. Too much protein having a significant effect in a sedentary male? Maybe. Having significant effect on a 200-250 lb heavy iron training muscle factory? I don’t buy it.
If this were a real problem there would be an epidemic of natural bodybuilders who eat a lot of protein with ultra low test, but I don’t see them. We see an epidemic of bodybuilders who don’t make progress though, maybe that should be the primary concern here.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Yes that would certainely be true but in this case I was referring to your friendly neighborhood bodybuilder not a pro. I’m just not convinced that the protein intake that myself and many others partake in has a significant impact on the hormones in the body. Too much protein having a significant effect in a sedentary male? Maybe. Having significant effect on a 200-250 lb heavy iron training muscle factory? I don’t buy it.
If this were a real problem there would be an epidemic of natural bodybuilders who eat a lot of protein with ultra low test, but I don’t see them. We see an epidemic of bodybuilders who don’t make progress though, maybe that should be the primary concern here. [/quote]
True enough. Really, i dont see such epidemic.
Actually i was speaking from my limited experience around natural and not so much natural bodybuilders around here.
Some take higher protein, others barely take protein enough to keep the tissues, but they all grow to some extent. Of course i dont live with then to know what they are doing outside of the gym, i can only speak based on what they speak.
I tend to think it boils more to caloric intake, in my case, since i tried higher protein intakes coupled with only 300 to 500 above my manutenance cals, and didnt see much growth, but when i jacked up the caloric intake with not much regards to protein, i grew way more quicker.
I will soon try both 
Don’t forget fiber intake. When it comes to the digestive system, try to think of it as you would a high performance car.
Why sink the money into a Torquer II Manifold and an 850 4 Barrel Carburetor, and then leave the stock exhaust manifolds on the block?
If you’re getting plenty of water (which has already been covered) and a large amount of dietary fiber then you’ll be getting rid of metabolic waste and making way for all that protein.
[quote]G34RH34D wrote:
Don’t forget fiber intake. When it comes to the digestive system, try to think of it as you would a high performance car.
Why sink the money into a Torquer II Manifold and an 850 4 Barrel Carburetor, and then leave the stock exhaust manifolds on the block?
.[/quote]
hmmm, I’m going to assume that makes sense haha. The whole digestive process is important and you are correct that I forgot to mention this. T-Nationers should know to eat their veggies though right? I could mention digestive enzymes as well but that’s a whole different can of worms.
Hey folks… Well, from what i have read on THIS forum, you need to eat protein all day… BUT to get that protein to work right for you, you need to raise your t’s…( testosteron)… If you build your T’s up, you then build your protein intake, and you will grow like crazy… But you also need to take it at the most benificial times, like post workout ( 50% of your daily total)BY SHAKE OR FLUID CONSISTANCY because of the " window "…
Solid protein takes 2 hours to breakdown, and you need to consume 50% after workout, but must be digested with-in 60 minutes… A shake take 20-30 minutes to digest…
Also, dont forget to eat your cottage cheese befor bed…
Im a newbie, but read some good stuff here… And it makes sense…
I weight 240 LBS, and will be taking in about 340g’s… No carbs, except for break-fast, 200 oz. water daily…
Nice to meet ya,
Since it’s your first post welcome.
But I do have some questions. When you say 50%, what are you referring to… protein intake for the day? Also why does it have to be digested 60 minutes after training? Muscle building/repair is a minute by minute process that for most of us is happening all the time.
Hey Scott M, thanks for the welcome.
I have read in this forum, that say for instance, you weight 200lbs… You SHOULD be comsuming at least 200 gms of protein per day… So when you get finished working out, you should be comsuming 50% of your daily intake, OR 100 gms… Yes, you have 60 minutes to feed your muscles protein post-workout, to get great benifits from the protein…
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=461429
hope that helps you out…
I just don’t see that panning out in the real world. For me high(much higher than Cy recommends there) protein is what seperates the guys standing still with the ones gaining when all other things are made equal. I consume about 2g/lb which is roughly 420 grams. If I was to ATTEMPT to eat 210 grams of protein in one sitting I’d probably puke it up. That’s roughly 8 scoops of my protein powder and with enough water to make it drinkable it would be like the gallon milk challenge. 210 grams of steak or chicken would take me forever to eat in one sitting.
I also don’t agree with the 60 minutes thing. Do I agree that post workout is a very important time? You better believe it… I take in a carb source, BCAA, and creatine around my workouts and a protein and carb shake afterwards. Probably 75 grams of protein if you count the BCAAs. But I also know of plenty of people who worry about the 15 minute or 60 minute or 120 minute(which one are people using now?) rule of the post workout “window” who aren’t gaining because they don’t put a 10th of the effort into the rest of their meals.
There’s reason to believe that this window is open 24-48 hours post workout. For someone like me who trains half the body each time rotated over 3 day a week that means I’m roughly in this muscle building nutrient needing environment pretty much constantly, and I feed accordingly.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
G34RH34D wrote:
Don’t forget fiber intake. When it comes to the digestive system, try to think of it as you would a high performance car.
Why sink the money into a Torquer II Manifold and an 850 4 Barrel Carburetor, and then leave the stock exhaust manifolds on the block?
.
hmmm, I’m going to assume that makes sense haha. The whole digestive process is important and you are correct that I forgot to mention this. T-Nationers should know to eat their veggies though right? I could mention digestive enzymes as well but that’s a whole different can of worms. [/quote]
Yep. And in fact ‘some’ protien supplements actually contain Papain and Bromelain (both enzymes) to speed effective digestion.
(I’ve got more sence than to mention anyone elses products by name, as this is Biotest’s site.) No reason not to include stuff like Fiber, Enzymes, BCAAs, and plenty of water to aid in both general digestion and protein uptake as these are cheap and commonly available.
To make a practical suggestion, eggs are an excellent long term protein source, as they take a bit longer to break down. They’re in your system longer as a result and taste better than tuna. I would only use shakes for recovery purposes myself as that’s when you’re gonna want more ‘immediate’ intake and digestion. I know that sounds inane and symplistic, but a lot of people forget how bioavailable egg protein is. I think it’s second only to our favorite, whey.