Tonight's Debate

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

I thought they were both more or less even. They didn’t ask the only question I really wanted to hear answered “after we spend the 700 billion dollars or more on Wall Street, what are your plans for Iraq?” There sure as hell isn’t going to be any money for that.

Although, I beleive McCain would definately have a spending freeze on education, health care and anything that would benefit the average person so he can keep funding the war du jour.

Obama missed some good opportunities to slam McCain example; when McCain was was dissing him on Iran, Obama should have brought up the Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran moment and hos this is not the professional face that the president should show the world.

McCain too many times sounded like the old man that he is, you could bail out wall street if you had dollar for every time he said “well, for the last 26 years this is how we did it in my day sonny boy”.

Todays world is diferent than the world of the last 72 years. This is probably going to be far better than the Republication choreographed debate with the Veeps. All the rules will make that pretty sterile.

42

[quote]Professor X wrote:
No offense, but McCain seems to have trouble staying on topic without trying very hard to say, “well, Obama stated this” even if Obama just stated otherwise seconds before.

His attention seems to be much less on answering the questions and much more on pushing the idea that Obama is younger and less “experienced”. That is just poor debating skills. There is no way McCain comes out of this debate with positive marks overall.[/quote]

Not necessarily - it forced Obama to be on the defensive continually.

Personally, I think they both did okay; played mostly to their faithful; neither probably changed any minds.

43

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Professor X wrote:
No offense, but McCain seems to have trouble staying on topic without trying very hard to say, “well, Obama stated this” even if Obama just stated otherwise seconds before.

His attention seems to be much less on answering the questions and much more on pushing the idea that Obama is younger and less “experienced”. That is just poor debating skills. There is no way McCain comes out of this debate with positive marks overall.

Not necessarily - it forced Obama to be on the defensive continually.

Personally, I think they both did okay; played mostly to their faithful; neither probably changed any minds. [/quote]

That just might have worked if he didn’t come across like Old Man River with every response that began with, “well, I have known _____ for 35 years and…”. If he is appealing to the 60+ yo and older crowd, that just might work.

44

[quote]RoadWarrior wrote:
Obama should have brought up the Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran moment and hos this is not the professional face that the president should show the world. [/quote]

Um, he did explicitly bring that up. While discussing strikes on Pakistan.

45

I think that Obama did better off script than I expected. However every time he stutters "uhh…emmm…ehhhh…, I wanted to turn off the TV. Drives me fucking crazy.

My opinion is that McCain clearly win the debate, and here’s why. McCain did a much better job than Opie did in highlighting his positives, while at the same time highlighting Obama’s negatives.

Obama often looked frustrated, but more damaging to him I think, was the appearance of elitism and arrogance that he projected the whole time. Kerry did much of the same, and it didn’t resonate well then either.

Personally, I just think that’s who he is. It’s part and parcel to his mind set and personality, and the more the public sees this, the more they will be turned off. Also, he let McCain run roughshod over him, and then kept hoping that Jim Lehyer would throw him a life line.

Overall, a much more enjoyable debate than anticipated.

46

I’m with RoadWarrior in that I felt that McCain and Obama came out even on this one.

Neither made major gaffs, and there were no “knockouts” or sound bites we will be talking about for years.

Keep in mind, however, that debates (and this is from a former debater) are to 1) state your position 2) defend your position and 3) clarify your position in rebuttal.

Did both men do what they had to do?

Obama had to hold is own on Foreign Policy: check

McCain had to somehow show the gap in experience between him and Obama:

While we KNOW his has more Foreign Policy experience than Obama, it really didn’t come across in the Debate.(Note: years of experience are almost impossible to condense down into 2 and 5 minute time frames, so this most likely wasn’t a reasonable expectation for McCain in the first place).

The only disappointing thing I see is that my expectations are pretty low for covering much new territory in their next two debates.

With that being said, Palin/Biden should be very interesting.

Mufasa

47

Biggest shortcoming I could see from mccain aside from the “atmospheric” losses he sustained was the fact that he did NOT push the point that he wants the bailout to come from private funds and NOT the the taxpayer, which is the whole move I thought he was setting up with his going to washington this week.

All he said was that “i hope there’s a bipartisan solution and I hope I can vote for it”. Big freaking deal. He needed to point and say “I don’t want taxpayers saddled with 700 billion dollars of debt”.

48

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
I think that Obama did better off script than I expected. However every time he stutters "uhh…emmm…ehhhh…, I wanted to turn off the TV. Drives me fucking crazy.

My opinion is that McCain clearly win the debate, and here’s why. McCain did a much better job than Opie did in highlighting his positives, while at the same time highlighting Obama’s negatives.

Obama often looked frustrated, but more damaging to him I think, was the appearance of elitism and arrogance that he projected the whole time. Kerry did much of the same, and it didn’t resonate well then either.

Personally, I just think that’s who he is. It’s part and parcel to his mind set and personality, and the more the public sees this, the more they will be turned off. Also, he let McCain run roughshod over him, and then kept hoping that Jim Lehyer would throw him a life line.

Overall, a much more enjoyable debate than anticipated.
[/quote]

It is amazing how perspective can effect events in retrospect.

[quote]uhh…emmm…ehhhh…,[/quote]?

I listened to that debate and didn’t hear this. Maybe the volume wasn’t up loud enough.

Also, highlighting his positives? The man spent more of his time pointing out Obama’s age/experience than he did answering the questions. The debate is about the topics, not personal attacks…which was what seemed to be coming from McCain especially during the last 30min.

Maybe we should post the transcript?

49

[quote]Professor X wrote:
That just might have worked if he didn’t come across like Old Man River with every response that began with, “well, I have known _____ for 35 years and…”. If he is appealing to the 60+ yo and older crowd, that just might work.[/quote]

Well hale man, back in my day we didn’t need computers, we counted on our fingers like real men. We don’t need these newfangled contraptions. What’s worked for the last 72 years is all we need now, my daddy told me so.

50

Too many “John is right”'s, while he himself is being characterized as naive.

51

[quote]RoadWarrior wrote:
Professor X wrote:
That just might have worked if he didn’t come across like Old Man River with every response that began with, “well, I have known _____ for 35 years and…”. If he is appealing to the 60+ yo and older crowd, that just might work.

Well hale man, back in my day we didn’t need computers, we counted on our fingers like real men. We don’t need these newfangled contraptions. What’s worked for the last 72 years is all we need now, my daddy told me so.
[/quote]

I thought he couldn’t make much use of them because because of his war wounds. Huh, learn something new everyday.

52

The one thing that stuck out of the debate to me was the question of “now with this huge bailout, how does that change your plans?” (something to that extent).

Obama kept listing off how he wanted uni healthcare, improve education, improve infrastructure, put a bunch of money into alternative fuels, etc. etc. He said “some things might have to be delayed…alternative fuel is a long term goal”.

I think that was very telling. The monitor even rephrased the question 2-3 times and Obama still didn’t say what, specifically, about his plans would change. Maybe its just my conservative-ness, but with the deficit and this clusterfudge of a bailout, It worries me that Obama didn’t show himself to be flexible enough to change his plan to be fiscally responsible.

Again, that may just be my bias, but out of all everything else, which was good but pretty predictable, that was the one thing that stuck out to me.

53

I thought McCain was trying to reach for a laugh when he tried to make a joke about “setting the Whitehouse guest list. I dont even have a seal yet.” It dint come off to well.

54

[quote]TBoZ1244 wrote:
The one thing that stuck out of the debate to me was the question of “now with this huge bailout, how does that change your plans?” (something to that extent).

Obama kept listing off how he wanted uni healthcare, improve education, improve infrastructure, put a bunch of money into alternative fuels, etc. etc. He said “some things might have to be delayed…alternative fuel is a long term goal”.

I think that was very telling. The monitor even rephrased the question 2-3 times and Obama still didn’t say what, specifically, about his plans would change. Maybe its just my conservative-ness, but with the deficit and this clusterfudge of a bailout, It worries me that Obama didn’t show himself to be flexible enough to change his plan to be fiscally responsible.

Again, that may just be my bias, but out of all everything else, which was good but pretty predictable, that was the one thing that stuck out to me.[/quote]

Yeah, his answer was about how government was going to go on a spending spree and create more programs to bankrupt us faster.

55

Random thoughts:

Obama completely dodged the question on what he’d cut in light of the bailout. McCain was much more concrete.

Call it class warfare if you want, but if Obama is telling the country no one making under $250,000 is getting a tax hike under him, I’m guessing that goes over well in most places.

McCain kept going on and on about waste and earmarks. Obama called him on it, but should have been even stronger. Earmarks are pennies in the bucket compared to entitlements, tax policy, and the military. And yet cutting earmarks pretty much IS McCain’s domestic agenda.

Iraq - terrible answers both. We should “have a good strategy” or “be smart about how we use our military.” That’s it? How about the wisdom of democracy promotion, preventive war, trying to reorder another society by force…geez.

Is it just me or was McCain wearing a lot of makeup? He looked a lot smoother and less wrinkled than normal, certainly in HD.

That bracelet comparison was cheap and exploitative.

McCain tried to use the surge club he beat Romney with a few months ago. Never mind the Awakening, or Sadr, or anything complicated, it’s just the Surge worked, Petraeus solved everything, the end. Wish I had more faith in the American voter.

I could care less that McCain has covered half the globe (at taxpayer expense) on Congressional junkets. Jim Webb, speaking as a former Marine infantryman, once had some good lines on what dog-and-pony shows those trips are. McCain wearing body armor, surrounded by troops, AFVs and Apaches (!) to declare a Baghdad market back in business comes to mind.

McCain sounded like the reasonable and restrained one on Pakistan. That’s not good.

McCain brought up his stupid “League of Democracies” idea, which is pretty much an attempt to have an international body to rubber stamp American actions. That would go south real fast, maybe on Iran first of all.

Don’t think too many voters got Obama’s inside joke about McCain’s confusion on who Spain’s president is. Maybe I’m wrong.

They’re pretty much indistinguishable on Georgia. Sweet.

Talk about missing the obvious. McCain reused an old line about going to South Ossetia and seeing a billboard of Putin. Yup, because the people there consider themselves Russian. Remember when you were the biggest advocate for war for Kosovo on the exact same grounds?

McCain referred to “our friend and ALLY Ukraine.” Worst thing he said all night. So some poor, new state thousands of miles away in the corner of Europe, which means nothing to America, is now our ally.

Incredible. I’m guessing in all his “experience” he never came across Washington’s farewell address:
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/washing.htm

I thought Obama was much better, though he could have done with some humor and a more relaxed demeanor. After a performance like that, if he wasn’t a defender of infanticide, indifferent to the Constitution, and offering more of the same on foreign policy, I could almost begin to talk myself into voting for him.

Considering foreign policy is supposed to be McCain’s main selling point, this debate doesn’t bode well for him.

56

[quote]Himora22 wrote:
I thought McCain was trying to reach for a laugh when he tried to make a joke about “setting the Whitehouse guest list. I dont even have a seal yet.” It dint come off to well.
[/quote]

That didn’t sound like a joke to me at all. It sounded like he was making fun of Obama very condescendingly for speaking as if he could actually be president. I do agree that it FAILED.

57

[quote]TBoZ1244 wrote:
The one thing that stuck out of the debate to me was the question of “now with this huge bailout, how does that change your plans?” (something to that extent).

Obama kept listing off how he wanted uni healthcare, improve education, improve infrastructure, put a bunch of money into alternative fuels, etc. etc. He said “some things might have to be delayed…alternative fuel is a long term goal”.

I think that was very telling. The monitor even rephrased the question 2-3 times and Obama still didn’t say what, specifically, about his plans would change.

Maybe its just my conservative-ness, but with the deficit and this clusterfudge of a bailout, It worries me that Obama didn’t show himself to be flexible enough to change his plan to be fiscally responsible.

Again, that may just be my bias, but out of all everything else, which was good but pretty predictable, that was the one thing that stuck out to me.[/quote]

That can be said for both of them. Someone needs to take away their sticks and give them machetes so that they can stop beating around the bush.

58

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Himora22 wrote:
I thought McCain was trying to reach for a laugh when he tried to make a joke about “setting the Whitehouse guest list. I dont even have a seal yet.” It dint come off to well.

That didn’t sound like a joke to me at all. It sounded like he was making fun of Obama very condescendingly for speaking as if he could actually be president. I do agree that it FAILED.[/quote]

No, he was referring to the fact that Obama’s (incredibly arrogant) campaign had an official, presidential-looking seal. I think, like the Spain joke, it went over people’s heads.

59

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Himora22 wrote:
I thought McCain was trying to reach for a laugh when he tried to make a joke about “setting the Whitehouse guest list. I dont even have a seal yet.” It dint come off to well.

That didn’t sound like a joke to me at all. It sounded like he was making fun of Obama very condescendingly for speaking as if he could actually be president. I do agree that it FAILED.[/quote]

I thought it was speaking condescendingly to the fact that 2-3 times, that I recalled, before McCain made the comment, Obama referred to himself as the “future president” in one form or another.

60

[quote]Professor X wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
I think that Obama did better off script than I expected. However every time he stutters "uhh…emmm…ehhhh…, I wanted to turn off the TV. Drives me fucking crazy.

My opinion is that McCain clearly win the debate, and here’s why. McCain did a much better job than Opie did in highlighting his positives, while at the same time highlighting Obama’s negatives.

Obama often looked frustrated, but more damaging to him I think, was the appearance of elitism and arrogance that he projected the whole time. Kerry did much of the same, and it didn’t resonate well then either.

Personally, I just think that’s who he is. It’s part and parcel to his mind set and personality, and the more the public sees this, the more they will be turned off. Also, he let McCain run roughshod over him, and then kept hoping that Jim Lehyer would throw him a life line.

Overall, a much more enjoyable debate than anticipated.

It is amazing how perspective can effect events in retrospect.

uhh…emmm…ehhhh…,?

I listened to that debate and didn’t hear this. Maybe the volume wasn’t up loud enough.

Also, highlighting his positives? The man spent more of his time pointing out Obama’s age/experience than he did answering the questions. The debate is about the topics, not personal attacks…which was what seemed to be coming from McCain especially during the last 30min.

Maybe we should post the transcript?
[/quote]

Lehyer was prompting the two of them the entire time to specifically point out the differences in each others policy and vision. IMHO, McCain answered that call better. McCain highlighted his policy, and illustrated as to why he considered that policy to be better by pointing out what he considered to be serious flaws in his opponents policy and vision. This was in fact, a debate.

And I would hope that McCain would continualy point out the significant age/experience difference between the two. It is in fact, a benefit to McCain to do so. Wouldn’t you? This is not a personal attack, it is a political attack.

If you had 25+ yrs experience in your particular field, with a shit ton of experience, wouldn’t you consider those qualities to be major assets over some wet behind the ears, johnny come lately with only a few years experience?