[quote]speedyhawk wrote:
Previous tests were from 4/6, this new test is from 7/18. Using Tamoxifen increased FSH, LH and Test, but also pushed my Estradiol way up. I guess that would partially explain why I really haven’t been feeling the results. I did ask the doc and he said the tamoxifen was going to raise E2 levels and it wasn’t anything to worry about, even though like dhickey said E2 of around 20 is ideal and higher will reduce effects of test.
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So, your symptoms didn’t get better and your doc told you that’s nothing to worry about. Nice.
Why did you drop cortisol from your lab work? In your initial lab, what time was the blood draw? If it was 8am that cortisol number is way low and you need adrenal support. If it wasn’t 8am it tells us nothing.
Yeah that’s what the doc said. This week I have been feeling more tired than normal, so that has even gotten worse. I am going to call him and as well as a urologist I saw for something else that had offered to help if I had issues with my current doc.
Yeah the last 2 labs were both 8am fasting tests. I didn’t have it removed the doc put in the order for the tests, I thought we were going to keep testing the same stuff but I guess they cut back to save money or unneeded tests. Isn’t the only solution for cortisol, long cardio, supplements or steroids?
If your body is not producing cortisol, it indicates a degree of adrenal insufficiency. If this is environmental, you need to take care to reduce those factors (reduce stress, increase sleep, supportive diet). Many people use pregnenolone or progesterone (in that order) to help boost cortisol. If that fails you can go the cortiocsteroid route (Hyrdrocortisone) but that should be a last resort option as it is extremely suppressive to your natural output.
It’s possible that you can only supplement for a short time while everything comes back online and up to speed…some people can stop then (wean off) others require it for life. Play the hand you’re dealt.
Well doc said not much to do now for high E2, could do AI while rolling off on tamox after 3 more months. He said they shouldn’t be stacked and also pointed out that E2 readings aren’t accurate while on SERMs 'cause you can’t tell how much is being absorbed/blocked by the meds.
I am considering doing some vitamin after talking to a friend that’s had some hormone issues and treated with vitamins only. I was thinking Vitamins B6 (through P5P), E, and Zinc. He suggested Ginseng too, but not sure about that one.
Not sure what to do about cortisol, doc said it’s a little low it wasn’t anything to worry about. In reading I can’t really find much except that you need “enough but not too much” never giving where it should be or a range or anything. Also said Cortisol fluctuates during the day and a little low in the morning means it’ll probably get a little high in the evening but it’s in the 30th percentile range from lab. I have been increasing sleep with the fatigue I have been feeling moving from 5-6 hours to at least 7 hours/night. Stress is going to be tough to reduce with work and family life, not sure how I can take any immediate action on that one. The only diet info I have found has been about reducing cortisol due to that being a new diet fad or something, I guess… For now I guess I’ll just see how it goes with the extra sleep on the cortisol.
If you are going to be limited in the hrs of sleep you can get, you need to make sure what you do get is good sleep. I struggled with solid sleeping for years. 20 squirts of my Magnesium oil and three ZMA caps has me sleeping like a baby. The Magnesium oil should also increase you DHEA pretty significantly, which should assist in raising T.
Here are my updated test results, both tests are 8:30, fasting tests. I slowly rolled off Tamoxifen per doctors orders starting 10/28 and I was completely off by 1/28/12. So in the month I have been off the meds my LH is back exactly where it was when I started and total test is only up 138 from the beginning. When the nurse called with results she said the doctor said I am good to go now, but I don’t think that’s the case with me, it’s just the end of it with that doctor. My new test levels still leaves me in the 11th percentile for men 20-49 which is darn low and I know I felt much better with more test.
As far as symptoms, morning wood and overall feeling was much better in Oct. than it is now. Especially tired feeling in the morning as well as during/after a workout. I know I’d rather be much closer to the 754 level than I would to what I am now… I have also read at least one study that said having a varicocele surgery can up total test by around 100 and that’s where I am right now, so I am not sure the tamox had any lasting effect like the doc thinks.
Other things I have done since I last updated: Used Zeo sleep device to check sleep, VERY sound sleeper with 2+ hrs deep and 2+ hrs REM each night even with 6-7 or so hours of sleep. Tried the vitamin route and didn’t change feeling, back down to a daily multi and calcium now.
So next I have to decide who to go see, I have a urologist that did my surgery last year that seemed eager to help if I wasn’t pleased with my treatment or I found a compounding pharmacy in town that also has a specialty of hormone therapies to get a referral from. Any suggestions on figuring out which of those options would be best for me.
Went to the Urologist today and his recommendation was to do 5 week Androgel 4 pump (5mg) to ensure that it’s really testosterone that’s causing the symptoms that I am still having. He said that would give me a quick comparison of low levels (300-400 range) and the higher levels (800 range) in a short period to see if my symptoms go away. The alternatives he offered were injections (every 2 weeks so not that good) or Clomid (longer time harder to tell impact), but since I already had the Androgel he recommended that route.
He said the best option at that 5 week point if this helps symptoms would then be pellets if this Androgel helped. I have read bad things about that so not sure what to think about that.
I am planning on going on Androgel as he recommends, are there better options he didn’t offer?
How did your symptoms compare in comparison to your two blood levels? Test was high and great while on the SERM.
Your WBC is alarmingly low–indicative of some sort of disease state. I suggest finding a good hematologist and getting to the route of that before going and screwing around with Test.
As far as symptoms:
Energy levels - Better in Oct. with higher test
Low libido - about the same (have a 2 week old so makes that harder to judge now)
Mild ED - Better in Oct. with higher test
Little muscle mass (hard gainer) - Better in Oct. with higher test. I am still doing OK now with slightly increased test as opposed to last year when I started when I was very low.
Belly Fat - Better in Oct. with higher test
Overall Feeling - Better in Oct. with higher test
I was actually on antibiotics for bronchitis for the week before I had that blood test in Feb., that could have dropped that number. Looking back at old blood tests it was pretty consistent and lower than the given range of the lab. I’ll be sure to watch that closely on the blood results from here on out.
So my Doc moved me from Androgel to Test Cyp once per week injections, been at that for 5 weeks now and feeling a little better. He is putting me on HCG, he says 500iu EOD IM but I am going to start out as stated here in the standard protocol as 250iu EOD SC. Hopefully that will save my testicles from shrinking and help overall with TRT.
I haven’t had any blood tests before adding HCG and doc wasn’t too concerned. I was considering ordering my own but at $200+ for male panel blood spot test it’s a little pricey and I’ll get tested next month anyway.
Have been on test 100mg/wk, 250iu HCG EOD and feeling ok but based on E2 test and feeling I need AI. Doc not willing to prescribe so I ordered some myself and have been on that a couple weeks at 2 drops of gel EOD with HCG. Starting to feel better but when do I take the E2 test I will be ordering?
HCG is now an issue, doc wants me off of it, but I know my nuts ache from shrinking and softening with too much testosterone in my body and I can’t deal with that. So I plan to try short term and then have some HCG on hand when I can’t take it so I will have to source that as well. Any recommendations, PM me? And do I do E2 while on HCG, off HCG, any ideas?
So E2 is way too high…if your taking an AI you need more. Did he explain why no more HCG? Seems like he’s just sort of throwing things at you, seeing what might stick and if there’s a problem then just taking them away and trying something else. Not the best approach IMHO.
He said that he didn’t think I needed the HCG, but didn’t say why. I said I didn’t want the pain associated with atrophy and I wanted to keep my nuts and he didn’t really say much but that I should try to ween off of it. I don’t like that answer so I am not going to accept it.
As for AI, I started after seeing that blood test, that test was on 100mg/wk test and 300iu/EOD HCG. So I dialed back HCG to 200iu right now, not sure if I will go lower per his suggestion or not. I also started the AI after that test and will be retesting soon to find out what E2 is.