Not everyone in the world is on cycle. If every guy you ever saw was jacked on a cycle, then you would feel scrawny even on cycle. I would try to do deal with that directly. Theres a lot of people that clain they finally feel normal when they get on heroin or oxy. Those people die. I’m not comparing TRT to heroin, I’m talking about what youve described specifically. Just because you say you feel great on cycle means nothing. It certainly doesnt mean thats whats best for you a good way to deal w your emotions.
FWIW you look fantastic in BOTH pics. I had to look twice to notice the difference. Let us know what path you choose and best of luck. I’ll be interested in following your progress either way.
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I truly appreciate the compliment man, and your advice has been extremely helpful and taken into serious consideration. I admittedly do suffer from body dysmorphia as I’m sure several others on here do. It sucks. Part of why when my muscles get a bit fuller, and I feel more confident, that it’s such a big difference.
Although I know this is totally against the norm and not considered “smart”. One option I am contemplating is literally treating it like a cycle. I could run ~200mg of Test for 16 weeks and reevaluate then. Basically a 4 month trial to see IF I feel that a “trt” dose (although I know 200 is a bit high for conventional TRT), is enough to give me what I seek. If it doesn’t, I can PCT, and hope I recover as well as I have in the past.
Although I know it sounds like I’m asking a lot from TRT, as from what I have seen over the year on this page, most folks are rather unrealistic… I really would take any improvement. If any single benefit that I have felt while on cycle is attainable even to a lesser degree, then I would feel like it was worth it. One of those things that’s truly hard to explain.
Thank you though man, and I will certainly update with my new labs in a couple of weeks and update when I make a decision. I’m still truthfully not decided.
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Not every big person is on steroids, however not everyone has the same genetic potential either. I personally have a much harder time gaining weight than most others. I don’t compare myself to others, that’s a losing battle. I just go based on how I feel about myself. Comparing hormone therapy to narcotics is quite extreme.
How does feeling great on cycle not matter? That has a lot to do with the questions I am asking to those on TRT. If one can feel great on 500mg, and feel really good on 150-200, why do you feel as though that’s not the answer?
No offense, but after your first reply, it’s been hard to take what you say with any validity. You tell me you don’t believe that I don’t feel good or like a normal person with 700 test levels … and that I’m basically “making up” excuses to get on TRT. However you cease to realize that TT is one of the more useless numbers in understanding testosterone and how a person feels. My normal Test levels are ~550. However for some reason after the last two PCTs my levels stay high for a period of time. If I Test again in 12 months after taking nothing, I am almost certain they will be back in that 550 range.
You’ve ran 1 cycle, which IMO was more risky than anything I’ve run. Now considering Tren E as a second cycle. I find it funny you think TRT is a risk, or should be avoided, yet you’re shutting yourself down for 20 weeks on 600mg of Test, and considering Tren E as a second cycle.
Tough to take it serious, although I do still appreciate any and all input.
I would say brother if you arnt looking to compete, stay away from Tren. If i was not doing a show, I would not use it at all.
My best advice would be, if you are looking to come off, run a Primo cycle and then come off using a test taper method and that should ensure there is no period of time where your test levels are below normal. This would give you the best chance of retaining most of the mass you’ve gained.
SB
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I’ve been on TRT for 3 months now and it’s the best thing I ever did. I definitely needed it though. A few points from my side:
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Testosterone levels are in a global decline. So the ‘normal range’ gets lower every year. Not many years ago the top of the normal range was 1500. Now that’s considered supra, but if men did fine then, you can run at that level now.
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One of the world’s best TRT doctors don’t see complete symptom resolution before guys are between 30-50 of free T. This oftentimes require a very high total t level.
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Some guys are experiencing testosterone resistance syndrome where T do not get properly inside the cells. But t levels are measured outside the cells so even though your level seems fine it might not be enough for you. It seems like this is not the case as you do not have symptoms.
I’m just stating the above in order to let you know that 20 years ago your t level would have been considered pathetic.
Only you can make the choice. Personally I would have started 10 years ago if I had knew then what I know now. And I’m only 33.
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Definitely not competing, my sheer hope of considering Tren was to be able to put on enough size, that I would retain a decent amount of size over some of the more mild stuff. However the risks certainly have me worried.
Primo sounds way better, but if my body still does not want to maintain that new size, it would be a shame to run a primo cycle and not keep a good amount of the gains.
I have not tried the test taper method. Definitely worth considering, although only really addresses one of the few reasons I am contemplating starting TRT.
I know you compete… so here’s a question… did you have low test levels, or due to the competition portion, and knowing you’d be cycling a lot, you decided just to jump on a TRT?
This is exactly some of the stuff I have been reading about. I have read countless testimonies of guys in the 500-700 range with decent FT when SHBG also report that TRT for one reason or another has truly changed their lives.
Much appreciate your experience, thank you!
Lol 760 is now considered super to some
I shut myself down on 20 weeks of test. Seems we both know that was kind of dangerous. You would have told me not to do it if I had asked your opinion, right?
You’re talking about legit shutting yourself down forever. If this is a viable option, then what’s the big deal about me running a cycle that long? Think about it, this is something people generally want to avoid. I think you misinterpret where I’m coming from. There is a chance that any of us could need TRT at some point from cycling, but your testosterone levels are fine, and you were just contemplating doing one last cycle and moving on. That was a healthier mental state than committing yourself to TRT when it isn’t needed from what I can tell.
Also, with comment about not you not feeling good on test, I think you are taking that the wrong way too. You think I wake up everyday and feel like a million dollars? I don’t. That doesn’t mean our testosterone levels are so messed up such that more traditional measures for coping with our issues would fail due to what is basically a medical condition. Any improvement in mental state you are getting on cycle basically amounts to you being high. Not saying you don’t have the right to deal with that anyway you want. It just seems to me that TRT is a pretty serious commitment to make on purpose, for the reason of dealing with mental issues, when your endocrine system is otherwise healthy. TRT could stop making you feel good mentally one day. It certainly won’t keep you as jacked as you are now forever.
As for taking me seriously, you really shouldn’t. I’m not a doctor. I would say I am just looking out for you. I’m ok if you disagree with me, and sorry if you think I’m trying to be a cock or diss you or whatever bc I’m not.
My doctor actually referred me to an endo because of my alarmingly “high” testosterone at 794. He said it should be below 700.
I get it man, and I do appreciate your overall stance, just the way a few of the things came off were a bit off base IMO. I know it comes from a good place, and also know that there are two very different trains of thought on these topics.
I for one have totally planned and accepted that I would run TRT at some point. I think anyone that runs a cycle, should plan for that as it’s a very real possibility.
High Total T does not necessarily mean my body has a ton of usable testosterone and thus I should feel great. It also doesn’t mean that having double that level will make me feel great either, but who knows, it absolutely could make me feel great. If my FT is low, or my SHBG is high, my body may not be utilizing the testosterone the same way. Only my next blood tests will help with that. However, my levels do drop back to ~550 after being off for 6-12 months. I’m not sure why my levels are so high after a cycle to be honest. Maybe the novladex puts me into over drive for a bit? I have no idea, but that too could be bad and a reason to stop running cycles with PCT.
I’m just at the point where:
- Running future cycles and then coming off seems almost pointless. I have toured with Tren, but really do not want to run riskier stuff, and would like to avoid it. Simple Test + oral cycles I don’t feel as though will allow me to get much bigger. So I either accept that, stay as I am, or consider TRT.
- Even if I only weighed 200lbs but TRT gave me the muscular fullness that I lose when I come off, that would be worth it alone. Call me crazy, but the fullness is what gives me the most confidence. It’s the only time I actually feel like I workout. Call that a mental issue or not, there’s not many other options out there to address that.
I totally get your points though, and I see now you weren’t trying to be a dick. I think we just differ in how serious we think the undertaking of TRT is. If something can make me feel 25% better, I’m all about it.
For the record, I have tried every anti depressant, anxiety medication in the books. I have tried therapy for 10+ years. I have tried all sorts of stuff for energy. I do not ever drink soda, I eat pretty damn healthy, I do not drink alcohol, I sleep 8 hours a night. So far, nothing has come close to feeling as good as I do when on cycle. Yes, I am “high”, my TT is 4100 @ 500mg weekly as of last cycle. But if I can feel 25-50% better on a TRT dose as I do when completely off, then I find that worth it. The big question is WOULD I feel 25-50% better.
… and yes, I would have advised against being shut down for 20 weeks for a first cycle. You have no idea how your body bounces back, and you’re clearly against TRT, so that’s a risk for sure. I’m glad to hear it worked out though for sure!
Have you ever used Cialis preworkout? It’s kinda insane. I would try 10mg preworkout and see if that doesn’t increase your muscular fullness at least close to a satisfactory level. The effect from one dose for me can last up to 3 days. Cialis would blow me the fuck up and make me look much bigger before I ever touched a steroid or SARM. You don’t have to take it religiously. You just let the days go by man, and then when you are finally like “you know what, I really need to treat myself today and look extra full at the gym” you pop the cialis. I swear man, I took 10mg yesterday in the morning and seriously looked better than I recall even looking on cycle.
I want you to feel better some day man. Everyone deserves to feel comfortable in their own skin. I think you’ve heard my concerns though: this will be a risk for you that lasts for the rest of your life, so I hope you make the decision that way.
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I have heard about the cialis deal, however I feel decent in the gym, it’s more the other 23.5 hours a day and yet I feel deflated. I by no means feel as blown up in the gym as i did when on cycle. But I definitely feel “okay” when I have a pump. I love the 24 hour a say fullness feeling. Felt pumped up 24/7.
Definitely taking it as a serious decision and taking my time. The one nice part is … I could very well run it for 16 weeks and see how I feel. See if it has given me what I hope it might. My next cycle will be 16 weeks anyway, so I run the same risk. 
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Yea I saw you had that idea planned and I think it makes 100% sense.
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